Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

[MrGameguy]

Video discussion says everything:

TLDW

What was the consensus?

The movie's a ton of fun.
Don't worry about the human characters.

Go see it.

[ClandestineCanine9]

this movie is TOO QUIET. King of the Monsters is much louder. none of the roars make the impact I want, and the music is mediocre at best. Junkie XL ain't cutting it, I want Bear McCreary back, even if we don't hear any Ifukube.

[Mac Daddy MM]

I think any comparisons of the MV to the Showa era are completely coincidental, and not in a good way. The inconsistent tone of the MV is due to course-correction, the studios’ reaction to critical and audience response.

There it is. I was wondering when we'd see the blatant "it's okay for Japan/Toho but not okay for America/Legendary!" arguments to begin. Dude, you're straight up ignoring the well known facts that the Godzilla films were starting to fail and they then switched up gears entirely to target a younger demographic (children). Son of Godzilla was less received and less popular than Gamera vs. Gyaos at the time.

[ernesth100]

Godzilla had the unfair burden of starting a genre that it promptly became hard to stay the most popular item in.

Godzilla has his days and I don't feel like the shortcoming of any of these films were for a lack of wanting to make a good film rather like people said a lack of consistency throughout the franchise.

For example everyone knows G2014 is a good movie. Not stellar not awful but it's a rewatch able and enjoyable film. But the thing is the same can be said for all the MV because of consistency. No character minus the kaiju ever really get a chance to build up on their goals and arcs.

And even then, the payoff is usually minimal and hindered do to the almost consistent soft reboot nature of the franchise at this point.(And I mean the Godzilla/Kong franchise as a whole not the Legendary films alone)

[Dv-218]

I personally adore the fact that each one of the individual MV films has it's own flare and approach which makes them rewatchable on their own merits while still retaining certain threads of continuity to push that they are all in the same universe. Each style fits the story being told perfectly, and I'm honestly fine with it- G14 for example has a fantastic sense of slowburn pacing, grounded human perspective and buildup- but I don't necessarily think such an approach would have worked with GvK. Or heck, take KSI with it's highly 70's/Apocalypse Now aesthetic which is completely unique to the series as a whole yet flows great with the story. The ability to tell stories that were both connected yet confined with their own vibe was always my favorite aspect about the franchise and I'm glad such an approach is being kept with the MV too. Rare to see in shared universes these days.

[daveblackeye15]

I do really like that each film feels different. But I dunno maybe we do need a Paul Feige character to oversee the Monsterverse and make sure there is some sense of consistency. I mean...only we, the fans that guy the tie-ins and novelizations for more details ponder over the Shinomuro being canon or not. Or if we see Behemoth again with two tusks be like 'huh but in Dominion one of Behemoth's tusks was damaged!'
At the same time I don't want the technology in the films to keep jumping around TOO dramatically too fast.

[NSZ]

I do really like that each film feels different. But I dunno maybe we do need a Paul Feige character to oversee the Monsterverse and make sure there is some sense of consistency. I mean...only we, the fans that guy the tie-ins and novelizations for more details ponder over the Shinomuro being canon or not. Or if we see Behemoth again with two tusks be like 'huh but in Dominion one of Behemoth's tusks was damaged!'
At the same time I don't want the technology in the films to keep jumping around TOO dramatically too fast.

*Kevin Feige

And yeah, some degree of consistency oversight would be welcome. Especially on the comics side of things...

[ernesth100]

I do really like that each film feels different. But I dunno maybe we do need a Paul Feige character to oversee the Monsterverse and make sure there is some sense of consistency. I mean...only we, the fans that guy the tie-ins and novelizations for more details ponder over the Shinomuro being canon or not. Or if we see Behemoth again with two tusks be like 'huh but in Dominion one of Behemoth's tusks was damaged!'
At the same time I don't want the technology in the films to keep jumping around TOO dramatically too fast.

This one leap is pretty sensible. It's been what 6 years since G2014 in MV time? With giant monsters frequently roaming the planet it's reasonable humans develop tech to traverse their terrain safely(heavs) and weapons to combat(orca, stronger missiles, mechaG)

[daveblackeye15]

I mean I don't mind it so much but I just don't want too many leaps over the span of two films.
And yeah Kevin Feige oops!

[ClandestineCanine9]

This one leap is pretty sensible. It's been what 6 years since G2014 in MV time? With giant monsters frequently roaming the planet it's reasonable humans develop tech to traverse their terrain safely(heavs) and weapons to combat(orca, stronger missiles, mechaG)

it's been 10 years. this movie takes place in 2024.

[Your Boy Leroy]

I think any comparisons of the MV to the Showa era are completely coincidental, and not in a good way. The inconsistent tone of the MV is due to course-correction, the studios’ reaction to critical and audience response.

There it is. I was wondering when we'd see the blatant "it's okay for Japan/Toho but not okay for America/Legendary!" arguments to begin. Dude, you're straight up ignoring the well known facts that the Godzilla films were starting to fail and they then switched up gears entirely to target a younger demographic (children). Son of Godzilla was less received and less popular than Gamera vs. Gyaos at the time.

No, you’re totally, totally right about that, but that’s not the point I’m trying to make. It’s about the belief that the direction and inconsistent tone of the MV is something like a purposeful creative decision to pay homage to the Showa era, which I don’t think it is at all. Like you said, past films in the franchise changed based on reacting to certain failures box office/audience appeal failures, and that’s how I see it with the current MV.

I’ve said this a few times before in different topics, but had the MV started out with the tone of K: SI, KOTM, or GvK, then I would totally be onboard with the franchise. But with G14 being the first film and seeing what was established with that, I can’t help but feel differently. Yeah, I agree that the MV has essentially followed the same path as the Showa films. But I’d also be willing to bet that Toho would’ve preferred some sort of consistency within the franchise rather than having to adapt. Same thing with Legendary and WB. But that’s the nature of the industry, I guess.

[_JNavs_]

G54 took itself dead serious.

GRA took itself slightly less serious but still had stakes.

GvKK decided to go all in on what the genre was known for at the time.

Sound familiar? It's a solid way of expanding.

[Your Boy Leroy]

^ That’s exactly what I’m talking about. I’m not arguing that the approach isn’t a solid way of expanding appeal. I enjoy the Showa films in their own right, and nostalgia plays a huge factor in that. In a time where special effects have advanced beyond belief, I’m just saying that I would’ve preferred some narrative consistency in the MV to match that. That’s all.

[MegaEvilSaurus666]

something something pose...something something explaining one Godzilla models differences in excruciating detail...something something realism

...I've looked at this Godzilla design too much.

Admit it, Mega. You secretly love MV Goji’s design, especially the newer one

And there you go again. Did I mention "realism" at any point in my original post? Nope. I just said that the head of the 2019 - 2021 model is smaller than the 2014 model, and the details on the neck are slightly stretched because of that.

And there's no secret here. I've been saying that this Godzilla design is in my top five favorites for a while. I wouldn't be studying it this much if it wasn't. I've got a project in mind for the future regarding it.
It would be perfect with a slightly bigger head, bigger teeth, and maybe a return to the yellow eyes? They were easier to see, oddly enough. There are good things about either iteration, but a mix would be better. Like the Bandai MMS Godzilla 2019 or Art Spirits Hyper Solid Series Godzilla 2019. Take a look at the latter.

This one leap is pretty sensible. It's been what 6 years since G2014 in MV time? With giant monsters frequently roaming the planet it's reasonable humans develop tech to traverse their terrain safely(heavs) and weapons to combat(orca, stronger missiles, mechaG)

So in chronological order, in just one movie, it makes sense to go from the tech of 2014 to the Argo and whatnot? And then a few years later, we got a straight up Star Wars type droid scanning rocks and uploading the data to Hong Kong to then synthesize enough of it to power a massive mecha controlled via psionic link? Not to mention all of the other huge leaps in tech that GvK had. These leaps are sensible? I simply disagree. And it's not just about the tech evolving. It's about the writers frankly not giving a fuck about making some sense of the world of the MonsterVerse. Look at how they weren't even suited up in protect themselves from the strange, mysterious, and radioactive elements of the Hollow Earth, but even GKOTM cared for that sort of thing. There's no doubt that Godzilla 2014 cared.

No, you’re totally, totally right about that, but that’s not the point I’m trying to make. It’s about the belief that the direction and inconsistent tone of the MV is something like a purposeful creative decision to pay homage to the Showa era, which I don’t think it is at all. Like you said, past films in the franchise changed based on reacting to certain failures box office/audience appeal failures, and that’s how I see it with the current MV.

Exactly. It's more of a coincidence than a homage.
I absolutely agree with you.
But here's the thing. There was no need to redirect anything in the MonsterVerse following the relatively positive reception of Godzilla and Kong: Skull Island. The complaints were simple. (Bryan Cranston's character's death, Aaron Taylor-Johnson being boring, not enough Godzilla, somehow not enough Kong, expendable characters in Skull Island) Combining the best aspects of the two, and improving on the rougher spots would have been the best direction to go in. The foundation was there. Rules could have been set. A overarching story and plan could have been made. It seems all you have to do is make the human characters tolerable and have exciting monster battles to make audiences happy, anyway.

We have the largest budgets, cutting-edge effects, and big name actors, but these huge movies get indie directors and poor writers to work on them. I can't help but feel like the movies could be much stronger in terms of narrative, tonal consistency, and general cohesiveness in a series called the MonsterVerse. It should feel episodic in ways. Each installment should look and feel like it's unquestionably in the same world as the last, building upon the themes and details of the previous, and connecting things without tie-in comics or novelizations (with questionable canonicity) to explain parts that the movies don't cover. Without omitting things, retconning previously established details, killing returning characters haphazardly, having entirely different tones in each sequel, etc. There should be a distinctive, familiar MonsterVerse feel to each.

[Your Boy Leroy]

^ This.

That’s all we’re saying.

The Dark Knight trilogy did it. Even the recent Planet of the Apes trilogy did it. Those two franchises made excellent films out of absurd concepts. It seems like once the decision was made to turn G14 into a “cinematic universe”, the studio thought all that meant was post-credit scenes and terrible sitcom-level humor. As much as I hate the Marvel Cinematic Universe, they got their shit together and planned that shit out so that (most) of the narratives and characters mattered so that by the climax, it really meant something. That’s why it worked.

[miguelnuva]

You guys act like the MV was as bad as the Stat Wars sequel trilogy. G14 is the only film that feels like it couldn't be apart of the universe.

Even the Heisei series feels like it has 2 tones.

[Jermobooka]

something something pose...something something explaining one Godzilla models differences in excruciating detail...something something realism

...I've looked at this Godzilla design too much.

Admit it, Mega. You secretly love MV Goji’s design, especially the newer one

And there you go again. Did I mention "realism" at any point in my original post? Nope. I just said that the head of the 2019 - 2021 model is smaller than the 2014 model, and the details on the neck are slightly stretched because of that.

And there's no secret here. I've been saying that this Godzilla design is in my top five favorites for a while. I wouldn't be studying it this much if it wasn't. I've got a project in mind for the future regarding it.
It would be perfect with a slightly bigger head, bigger teeth, and maybe a return to the yellow eyes? They were easier to see, oddly enough. There are good things about either iteration, but a mix would be better. Like the Bandai MMS Godzilla 2019 or Art Spirits Hyper Solid Series Godzilla 2019. Take a look at the latter.

Hmmm...I kinda get what you mean now. Still, i feel the arms should be bigger and longer, with the general body being bigger and beefier too

[ernesth100]

It would be so tedious to have the humans suit up everytime something is stated as radioactive. Theoretically the entire world is a nuclear wasteland since Godzilla and the titans travel around it regularly.

Just one of Godzilla beams should murder millions from exposure to the radiation alone. Yet we see people standing near the beam after it drills into the HE like nothing happened.

You say it makes no sense for these leaps. I say it makes little sense not to have these leaps. Without them the plot drags on for a tedious amount of time. Would you rather someone carry the sample to the surface and spend 5 minutes on that shit? Fuck no. You wanted Godzilla and Kong to fight.

The Box Office and popularity of these threads and discussions this far proves the movie delivered far more than it failed.

[Jermobooka]

After watching this fantastic, short little animation

https://youtu.be/PmEnbcgb5x4

I don’t really understand why the “smaller head” on Goji is such a big problem for some people. It looks great imo

[Moogabunga]

Tiny head or not, Legendary's Godzilla is by far the best design of all time. That being said though, there's always room for improvements