Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby _JNavs_ » Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:44 am

Jetty_Jags wrote:Dude I don’t know how anybody got a good experience with suicide squad. It’s not a good representation of the characters. It’s not a good movie. I’d argue it isn’t even a very fun movie. But you know if you liked it more power to you.

I thought it was a glorified fan trailer for Hot Topic.

But the soundtrack was well done.
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:07 pm

_JNavs_ wrote:But the soundtrack was well done.

You mean a bunch of popular and well known songs that were massive hits and will literally appeal to everyone? :P
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby eabaker » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:37 pm

Omegamorph wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:
Omegamorph wrote:and an Alien3 fan


I knew there were more of us!

Amen to that brother


There are a lot of us; we just usually have to meet in secret.
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:40 pm

eabaker wrote:
Omegamorph wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:
I knew there were more of us!

Amen to that brother


There are a lot of us; we just usually have to meet in secret.

But the big bad internet critic told us Alien 3 was a horrible film. :?
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby _JNavs_ » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:01 pm

Outside of the intro, Alien 3 was a good "Alien" flick.
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby Destorogoji » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:26 pm

Alien 3 is an amazing religious horror thriller. It only fails giving us such bland characters, but I'll prefer one single xenomorph hunting one person at a time over colonial marines shooting the crap out of hundreds of xenomorphs anytime.

As for KoTM, yeah, the film was pretty bad and the RT "score" is very accurate.
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby ShinGojira14 » Wed May 06, 2020 8:31 pm

I don't often trust Rotten Tomatoes and other critic sites, but yes. I do think they were VERY right in giving King of the Monsters a bad score.
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby tbeasley » Fri May 08, 2020 9:29 am

I agree with Mr. Scorsese here -

Martin Scorsese Slams Rotten Tomatoes and CinemaScore: ‘They Reinforce the Idea Every Image Is There to be Instantly Judged’
“The horrible idea they reinforce [is] that every picture, every image is there to be instantly judged and dismissed without giving audiences time to see it,” Scorsese said. “Time to see it, maybe ruminate and maybe make a decision for themselves. So the great 20th-century art form, the American art form, is reduced to content.”


Martin Scorsese on Rotten Tomatoes, Box Office Obsession and Why 'Mother!' Was Misjudged (Guest Column)
The legendary director is critical of the outsize influence of Tomatometer ratings and Cinemascore grades, adding that "good films by real filmmakers aren’t made to be decoded, consumed or instantly comprehended."

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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Fri May 08, 2020 1:28 pm

The "American" art form? :?
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby _JNavs_ » Fri May 08, 2020 2:00 pm

Scorsese is right.
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby Destorogoji » Fri May 08, 2020 2:10 pm

A'ight, to be honest, the Tomatometer is a broken system. Alien 3 was a great movie, and didn't deserve that 43.
STILL, they get to get it right sometimes. And yes, they were right on giving KoTM a bad score
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby UltramanGoji » Fri May 08, 2020 2:21 pm

Nobody seems to understand how RT works.
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Fri May 08, 2020 2:24 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:Nobody seems to understand how RT works.


I understand the system, I just don't necessarily agree with it.

It's also pretty prone to corruption and falsified percentages, at least with the Audience scores. But that's another topic.
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby Italian G-Fan » Fri May 08, 2020 2:30 pm

Destorogoji wrote:A'ight, to be honest, the Tomatometer is a broken system. Alien 3 was a great movie, and didn't deserve that 43.
STILL, they get to get it right sometimes. And yes, they were right on giving KoTM a bad score

In both the cases of Alien 3 and KOTM RT was wrong.

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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby Destorogoji » Fri May 08, 2020 2:32 pm

Italian G-Fan wrote:
Destorogoji wrote:A'ight, to be honest, the Tomatometer is a broken system. Alien 3 was a great movie, and didn't deserve that 43.
STILL, they get to get it right sometimes. And yes, they were right on giving KoTM a bad score

In both the cases of Alien 3 and KOTM RT was wrong.

I don't know, man, I don't really like KoTM.
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby Italian G-Fan » Fri May 08, 2020 2:34 pm

Destorogoji wrote:
Italian G-Fan wrote:
Destorogoji wrote:A'ight, to be honest, the Tomatometer is a broken system. Alien 3 was a great movie, and didn't deserve that 43.
STILL, they get to get it right sometimes. And yes, they were right on giving KoTM a bad score

In both the cases of Alien 3 and KOTM RT was wrong.

I don't know, man, I don't really like KoTM.

You do you man, it’s what you think. But honestly KOTM didn’t deserve that 41%. KOTM was flawed, I’m the first to admit it, but it wasn’t bad and didn’t really deserve that score.
Last edited by Italian G-Fan on Fri May 08, 2020 2:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby UltramanGoji » Fri May 08, 2020 2:39 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:Nobody seems to understand how RT works.


I understand the system, I just don't necessarily agree with it.


I mean, there's nothing to really agree or disagree with.

RT is a review aggregator, it collects reviews from critics of various sites, newspapers, and blogs. It's not its own site reviewing movies, it just calculates a percentage of critics who gave the movie a positive review and then forms a consensus from those reviews.

Most people look at a movies RT score and say "oh, it's 43/100 this movie stinks" which isn't what the percentage means. It means 43% of the people that watched this movie gave it a positive review. and 57% gave it a negative review. What they should be doing is looking at the critical consensus and seeing what critics actually have to say down below instead of following the pretty numbers.

There's also a very clear subset of people who blatantly hate RT because a movie they liked had a bad percentage and a movie they disliked got the opposite. You can tell who they are by how they act about it. RT is wrong until it's right for them.

Kaiju-King42 wrote:It's also pretty prone to corruption and falsified percentages, at least with the Audience scores. But that's another topic.


Agreed, the audience percentages are some of the most useless bits about the site.
Last edited by UltramanGoji on Fri May 08, 2020 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby Living Corpse » Fri May 08, 2020 2:51 pm

We really need viral marketing for GVK. I know it's too early for trailers, just update the Monarch sciences site or make a new site.
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby Gigantis » Fri May 08, 2020 6:10 pm

Living Corpse wrote:We really need viral marketing for GVK. I know it's too early for trailers, just update the Monarch sciences site or make a new site.


Couldn't they just make, like, a second site that's about Apex? I'm sure that'll at least give a nice tie in to the lore.
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Re: Do you think Rotten Tomatoes was right into giving KOTM a bad score?

Postby Jetty_Jags » Fri May 08, 2020 7:34 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:RT is a review aggregator, it collects reviews from critics of various sites, newspapers, and blogs. It's not its own site reviewing movies, it just calculates a percentage of critics who gave the movie a positive review and then forms a consensus from those reviews.

Most people look at a movies RT score and say "oh, it's 43/100 this movie stinks" which isn't what the percentage means. It means 43% of the people that watched this movie gave it a positive review. and 57% gave it a negative review. What they should be doing is looking at the critical consensus and seeing what critics actually have to say down below instead of following the pretty numbers.

There's also a very clear subset of people who blatantly hate RT because a movie they liked had a bad percentage and a movie they disliked got the opposite. You can tell who they are by how they act about it. RT is wrong until it's right for them.


This. And its not exclusive to the goji fandom, I was heavily involved in the DC fandom around the time the DCEU just started, and had mainly mediocre to negative critical responses. The same allegations where called out against RT, although with a little more Disney Corruption Buying Reviews flavor, and many where just floored with the idea that somebody could rate Suicide Squad a 27%. So many people don't understand that R.T. is a tool to see the generalization of critical response. The whole point is to not be a nuanced, but rather to show the trend in a large set of data.

And while I do tend to agree with Scorsese that people place way too much faith into this system, I don't think it is function/purpose-less. Its just that the function it does serve often conflicts with its public perception (I'll touch on this later). In this day and age with so many films being released, having a review aggregator can be helpful in making an economic decision to see movies in theaters. These experiences aren't cheap, and with so many decisions, a tool like Rotten Tomatoes can be used to filter out unfavorable movie experiences. "Ope, critics don't seem to like this one, maybe I'll wait for RedBox. Oh, this one gets good reviews, it'll probably be worth seeing in theaters". When used like this, RT can be very useful. It can also backfire, especially in cases where the perceived movie merit values increase with age (Blade Runner, aforementioned Alien 3), or is sometimes the byproduct of the disconnect between critics and general audiences. The critic praised audience hated phenomenon seems to occur when recognizing that critics have the inverse problem of G.A. They see too many movies, so the safe generic movie a GA might really enjoy becomes quite bland and unoriginal, where as the experimental less approachable movie gets really good reviews, at the confusion of the GA.

Now, while R.T. can be a good tool, its often horribly misused. The general public perception seems to be that R.T. is some sovereign authority of the quality of films. To some extent I feel this is a byproduct of the "Certified Fresh" and "Rotten" labels, but besides this I don't really think the website tries to sell itself to be anything its not. Then how has this public perception formed? I'll offer two hypotheses.

The first is marketing. Whenever a movie gets well received, it's almost guaranteed a commercial exclaiming it's Rotten Tomatoes Status, displaying it like a farmer might proudly display a cow as grade A beef (I know this is a bad analogy, but its the best I got at the moment). This sells the idea that instead of RT being some kind of trend analyzer, its an authority on the quality of movies. "Oh, Rotten Tomatoes says its good so it must be, otherwise that's false advertising".

The second is a byproduct of the information age, and the rise of the amateur movie critic. In this time of being able to communicate anything to anyone, anywhere, seems to lead to much greater sharing of opinions (guilty as charged :lol: ). With this comes the debates of people discussing movies in a way that while I don't particularly find to be incitement or useful, I am to hesitant to say is objectively wrong, after all movies are art, art and the means by which we judge it are also subjective. There are many times where the "validity" of a movie be in question, or a movie is being compared to another, and these scores are used as "evidence" of objectionable value. This is a problem made worse by the availability of these scores when searching the movie. Usually the RT score is plastered immediately under the film's poster when searching in Google. Together, in the nerd age of cinema, leads to a heightened importance to these scores, because the community has attributed them so much value.

I have personally shifted my movie analysis away from providing any rated scores, as I see them as juvenile and believe they reduce the artistry that is present to the objectivity of a math test. However, I have no disrespect to those who do rate works with such a system, and have no problem using a tool like RT to make an economic decision, I just don't use it to quantify the value of a film.

Take away. King of the Monsters Deserves its Rotten Tomatoes Score, not because of the film's quality or lack there of (depending on which side of the fence a viewer sits on), but because Rotten Tomatoes is an data aggregator, and regardless of whether you agree with the algorithm or not (be it the philosophy, actual mathematical model, whatever), the score KOTM received is and can only be a product of this system, like how every other movie deserves its respective RT score.
Last edited by Jetty_Jags on Fri May 08, 2020 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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