Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

For the discussion of the Legendary Pictures MonsterVerse. This includes Godzilla (2014), Kong: Skull Island and any upcoming films under the MonsterVerse umbrella.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby _JNavs_ » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:08 am

To be fair ROTF was a hilarious movie, like Michael Bay said F it, everybody be yourselves and pyrotechnics blow everything up.

Plenty of memorable scenes in that movie.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:52 pm

_JNavs_ wrote:To be fair ROTF was a hilarious movie, like Michael Bay said F it, everybody be yourselves and pyrotechnics blow everything up.

Plenty of memorable scenes in that movie.

All I remember is being severely disappointed like all the other Bay films, only Jet Fire was done somewhat right in ROTF.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby _JNavs_ » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:07 pm

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:To be fair ROTF was a hilarious movie, like Michael Bay said F it, everybody be yourselves and pyrotechnics blow everything up.

Plenty of memorable scenes in that movie.

All I remember is being severely disappointed like all the other Bay films, only Jet Fire was done somewhat right in ROTF.

It really depends on where you where at during it's release, like at the time, kids my age were just hyped to see transformers, Megan the Fox, and Shia Laboeuf act like a lunatic (great stuff mind you). Plus the third wheel conspiracy guy, Leo, and the Ex-FBI guy who worked in the Pastrami shop had great chemistry, with one of my favorite moments being their very first exchange in said Pastrami shop. Now to be fair, it really isn't a good "Transformers" movie by any means, which we all know, but the actors definitely had tons of fun with the script and it showed in the final product, which is mainly why I enjoy the film so much.

And to reconnect this to the topic, the Monsterverse isn't doomed, but if it was, Shia would save the franchise.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby miguelnuva » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:34 am

The monsterverse had 1 underperformer after two successful films, it isn't doomed till after Godzilla vs Kong if that films underpeforms.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Godzillabrawler » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:10 am

UltramanGoji wrote:[...] It wasn't a case of "what else is there to do", it was a case of "what is there to do that can be better than Godzilla vs. Kong".

None of that is anywhere near as hype-worthy as GvK. [...]

I know this is an older post, but "Destroy All Monsters" has name recognition at least amongst folks older than me, people in my dad's generation (40's to late 50's age range). Godzilla vs Kong is one potential endgame, but DAM in concept alone plus the name is probably a safe bet. It'd be more akin to Avengers than GvK, which strikes me as more Batman vs Superman.

I honestly think Ultraman and Gamera could be successful, or at least Gamera, given that even if no one knows who they are really, a lot of people at least recognize the giant turtle monster. Ultraman is often referenced by that same older generation, they always mistake Jet Jaguar and him for the same person. Unfortunately I think they're both impossible given Toho's involvement, although I'd love to be wrong.

Sorry if the current conversation in the thread has deviated from this, just wanted to interject my two cents.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Ivo-goji » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:42 am

KotM performed reasonably well in a summer suffering from extreme blockbuster fatigue. If anything it proved the franchise has better legs than we would have thought.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby GuardianGhido » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:00 am

Ivo-goji wrote:KotM performed reasonably well in a summer suffering from extreme blockbuster fatigue. If anything it proved the franchise has better legs than we would have thought.

That's a pretty nice way to look at it. The movie had some bad marketing and even worse timing and yet managed to draw enough of a crowd to almost make it to the 400 million range with black holes like Endgame and Aladdin around. I hearrd the movie managed to break even too, which (if true) is a huge relief compared to our thoughts on the BO situation early on. I'm definitely hoping GvK can right the ship for the MV to continue its smooth sailing. I'd really prefer if the MCU wasn't the only successful shared universe.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby miguelnuva » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:36 am

Kotm didn't do well but as I said. Two huge movies before it and 4 huge movies after it, I want to see Godzilla vs Kong's numbers before we write off the MV.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Rhedosaurus » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:22 am

Now that I think about it, my answer has to be yes simply because of how Legendary has been terrible when it comes to time with the Godzillaverse after Godzilla 2014. Here's my conversation with Cookson via the GvK Rumor Thread via proof of that.

Rhedosaurus wrote:
Cookson wrote:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
If anything else, the fact that it came out 5 years after Godzilla 2014 was what really crippled the movie. I still say that if it came out in 2017 instead of K:SI and if K:SI came out this year, then we wouldn't be talking about GvK being the end of the Godzillaverse.


The way the entire Monsterverse has developed after G14 is weird. Kong Skull Island was originally its own thing, not part of the Monsterverse and was scheduled for a 2016 release. Godzilla 2 was going to be a summer 2018 with Gareth Edwards directing. Gareth stepped down and eventually came a May 2019 film. Now we have the GvsKong stuff.

Don’t know if it would have been possible to get G2 in 2017 with the cards they had.



And the ironic thing is, Kong: Skull Island fells more like a stand alone movie then part of the Godzillaverse, even with Godzilla's roar the end of the credits.

Legendary really was NOT good with timing when it came to releasing Godzillaverse movies after Godzilla 2014, let along which ones to release, weren't they?

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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby _JNavs_ » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:53 am

I'm just trying to figure out how 4 films in the span of 7 years could be spun into "Legendary is terrible with timing"
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Rhedosaurus » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:32 am

_JNavs_ wrote:I'm just trying to figure out how 4 films in the span of 7 years could be spun into "Legendary is terrible with timing"


In large part, because of the following.

1. K:SI winded up being more like a stand alone movie then part of the Godzillaverse.

2. KOTM came out 5 years after Godzilla 2014. And between the MCU carpet bombing the GA with hit after hit, many people having short attention spans nowadays, and my first point, it was easy to people to forget/not care about this movie.

3. Now this GvK being delay via reshoots, which in turn means that it will cost more, not only that, but who knows what is going to happen between now and then. For all we know, China can pull a Tienanmen Square in Hong Kong which will result in a backlash that causes this movie to tank like how the NBA's rating are down, in part because of how many players and coaches supported the Chinese government.

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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby kaijuguy19 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:50 am

So with GvK being delayed till November next year which leaves it to compete with both Eternals and Raya from Disney and Clifford the Big Red Dog, I think it's a safe bet that the Monsterverse is now doomed for sure if it wasn't before. Really would've wanted it to last but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

At this point I think it would've been best if Legendary never attempted the Monsterverse to begin with and just stuck with just doing a Godzilla trilogy with Edwards doing all three with no Kong to fight again because if there's anything I've learned form all this it's that the Monsterverse is yet another botched attempt at doing a cinematic universe. Besides the GA love the 2014 Godzilla movie in the end anyway so it would've been best to build upon that instead of doing what KOTM did which drove GA away ultimately....
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby _JNavs_ » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:12 am

"It's another botched attempt at a cinematic universe"

550mill+ for their first 2 films
385mill+ for KOTM
Godzilla vs King Kong delayed to deliver an A+ film due to their stumble with KOTM

I'm not following the thought process here.

Added in 1 minute 3 seconds:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:I'm just trying to figure out how 4 films in the span of 7 years could be spun into "Legendary is terrible with timing"


In large part, because of the following.

1. K:SI winded up being more like a stand alone movie then part of the Godzillaverse.

2. KOTM came out 5 years after Godzilla 2014. And between the MCU carpet bombing the GA with hit after hit, many people having short attention spans nowadays, and my first point, it was easy to people to forget/not care about this movie.

3. Now this GvK being delay via reshoots, which in turn means that it will cost more, not only that, but who knows what is going to happen between now and then. For all we know, China can pull a Tienanmen Square in Hong Kong which will result in a backlash that causes this movie to tank like how the NBA's rating are down, in part because of how many players and coaches supported the Chinese government.

1. That's how a Kong film in the Godzillaverse should be done, standalone.

2. I agree

3. Mehhh maybe
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby miguelnuva » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:34 pm

Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous. Nearly 400m WW shows Godzilla is still a draw to a degree and that's with heavy competition.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby GodzillaFan1990's » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:35 pm

miguelnuva wrote:Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous. Nearly 400m WW shows Godzilla is still a draw to a degree and that's with heavy competition.

Also the competition and 5 year gap.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby UltramanGoji » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:59 pm

miguelnuva wrote:Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous.


How many times has the narrative changed?

First it was "too much competition", then it was "not enough marketing", now it's "the budget was too big".

Have you guys ever considered that maybe it underperformed because word of mouth, and by extension the film, just wasn't that good?
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Tohosaurus » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:11 pm

Critical reception towards modern giant monster movies is different than something like various 1970s Godzilla or Gamera movies. King Kong, Cloverfield, Monsters, Trollhunter, Colossal, Pacific Rim (#1), Shin Godzilla, Kong, and Godzilla (Legendary's #1) all had solid reception. None were thought of as The Dark Knight level, but then few things are.

miguelnuva wrote:Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous. Nearly 400m WW shows Godzilla is still a draw to a degree and that's with heavy competition.

I totally agree nearly $400 million shows that Godzilla is a draw. I wouldn't say the budget was too big though. It was in line with a movie of that caliber. Sure they could've done the movie for $125 million but things like effects and scale would've been diminished.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:19 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:
miguelnuva wrote:Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous.


How many times has the narrative changed?

First it was "too much competition", then it was "not enough marketing", now it's "the budget was too big".

Have you guys ever considered that maybe it underperformed because word of mouth, and by extension the film, just wasn't that good?

No man, it's clearly a Disney conspiracy.

The other thing that annoys me about this thread, is that DOOM is such a dumb term. 4 movies, in the olden days, is a successful franchise. Most film series would kill for a trilogy. It's just that we now live in this dumb modern era where unless something has 20 sequels its a failure.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Gigantis » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:22 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:
miguelnuva wrote:Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous.


How many times has the narrative changed?

First it was "too much competition", then it was "not enough marketing", now it's "the budget was too big".

Have you guys ever considered that maybe it underperformed because word of mouth, and by extension the film, just wasn't that good?


You sure it wasn't all of the above? It had to compete with some of the highest grossing films this year, the budget was just skreoonking ridiculous, If anything it marketed itself too early (like releasing the trailer 11 months before the film) AND it wasn't well liked by some critics, GA people and even some fans.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby miguelnuva » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:42 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:
miguelnuva wrote:Everyone here does know that KOTM only unperformed because the budget was ridiculous.


How many times has the narrative changed?

First it was "too much competition", then it was "not enough marketing", now it's "the budget was too big".

Have you guys ever considered that maybe it underperformed because word of mouth, and by extension the film, just wasn't that good?


It was huge competition and the budget being so large. This is not just a Godzilla problem as well. Endgame made nearly 3B and it had a small profit gain than Joker. I have always maintained these were the two main reasoms.

Kotm's word of mouth was mixed to positive. It was a little more negative then the first two films but not drastically so.

Looking at all three monsterverse films and what happened to everything else this summer competition was a huge factor.
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