Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

For the discussion of the Legendary Pictures MonsterVerse. This includes Godzilla (2014), Kong: Skull Island and any upcoming films under the MonsterVerse umbrella.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Orichalcum » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:16 am

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:Orichalcum aka the new Ryguy/BARAGONBREH.

Everyone needs a good reality check every once and awhile.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby JesstrK » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:17 am

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:Orichalcum aka the new Ryguy/BARAGONBREH.

The trilogy is complete. :lol:

I don't know if I'd go so far as to invoke that name lol. He may be negative, but at least he doesn't go around screaming non stop about how a team up will automatically spell doom for a movie every chance he gets, or call Mechagodzilla "stupid poop" like him-that-we shall-not-speak-of did.

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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Maritonic » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:18 am

Let's get back on the MonsterVerse being doomed, yeah?
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby GodzillaFan1990's » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:20 am

JesstrK wrote:I don't know if I'd go so far as to invoke that name lol. He may be negative, but at least he doesn't go around screaming non stop about how a team up will automatically spell doom for a movie every chance he gets, or call Mechagodzilla "stupid poop" like him-that-we shall-not-speak-of did.

I'm actually among those against a team up. Last thing we need is copying Batman vs. Superman because one thing I worry is Legendary might think to the GA that Godzilla and Kong are the heroes in their eyes and go that route despite being giant animals, intelligent ones mind you but still animals not human characters or humanoids with human intelligence.

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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby king_ghidorah » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:22 am

But he’s right though.

Rodan, KG and Mothra couldn’t put butts in seats and your argument is that infinitely more obscure monster ...WOULD?

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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby GodzillaFan1990's » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:25 am

There's always that surprise tbh but it really doesn't matter anyways at least to me IMO.

If the MonsterVerse ends it had a good run otherwise.

If it manages to continue good, then that's good too.

We're ever really gonna know once the movie comes out but as said I do feel delaying the movie will officially seal its fate so better to just leave it where it is.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Orichalcum » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:25 am

king_ghidorah wrote:But he’s right though.

Rodan, KG and Mothra couldn’t put butts in seats and your argument is that infinitely more obscure monster ...WOULD?

Bingo, you’d think at this point it’d go without saying but whatever.

The plethora of 50’s monsters are all dead in their graves, it’d be cool to see one or two pop up but let’s not kid ourselves and act like they’d build enough hype to save the MonsterVerse lol
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby GodzillaFan1990's » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:27 am

One thing that could had helped these films in the beginning more would had been more star power. If only Legendary had the money for more well known actors. That's why Rampage did decent given The Rock and The Meg with Jason Statham along with people liking shark movies.

Unfortunate Legendary couldn't do that.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby ManuJM1997 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:30 am

Honestly, people may say that Gamera and/or Ultraman wouldn't put any butts on a seat for how unrecognizable they are, and while that may be true, like I said, the cold harsh reality is that Godzilla alone could not move this franchise on his own (and Kong, while is nice to have and all that, still wouldn't be able to).

The Monsterverse to survive needed, needs other leads, other MCs.

Would Gamera or Ultraman be the answer? By this point, no. But the Monsterverse, if it wants to survive, it needs to offer somewhat more variety.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Orichalcum » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:30 am

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:One thing that could had helped these films in the beginning more would had been more star power.

Star power’s pretty useless when the directors can’t even use the ones they have

Charles Dance, Sally Hawkins, Bryan Cranston, Ken Watanabe, Juliette Binoche- the wasted potential is insane
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby GodzillaFan1990's » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:32 am

Orichalcum wrote:Star power’s pretty useless when directors can’t even use the ones they have

So why is it that Rampage did decent then? I can get The Meg given its also a shark movie which are popular.

Keep in mind too Rampage may had been big when it first came up but before the movies release it had since sunken into obscurity.

Just like how if not for Keanu Reeves and starred an unknown actor as the lead instead. The John Wick movies wouldn't be seen as they are today and first movie would had bombed. So you need popular actors in order to be a hit, become popular and draw audiences in.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Orichalcum » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:38 am

I think you missed my point monumentally…
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby GuardianGhido » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:39 am

Yes, the Monsterverse won't really work as a "Star Maker" like the MCU did for some (outside of maybe MBB if you use her right instead of shafting her to a minor role), we need well-established famous actors in the movies to draw in those not in it for the monsters. Bryan Cranston at the peak of his fame after Breaking Bad brought in crowds for G14 (who were disappointed by his early death that might explain the weak legs) and the massively star powered cast of K:SI worked brilliantly for Kong, putting plenty of butts in seats. Kong himself is a bigger draw than Godzilla too. KOTM on the other hand couldn't bring in too many outside of fans due to having a cast of relative nobodies for humans and monsters (what normie would know Rodan?) compared to the previous movies.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby ManuJM1997 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:51 am

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:So you need popular actors in order to be a hit, become popular and draw audiences in.


No, that's not what you need. KOTM had various well known actors (some which were totally wasted, btw) and it didn't manage to draw that many people.

I still stand with what I said. The Monsterverse needs variation inside it's own subgenere as monsters movies, otherwise people are just gonna get bored if all this movies are going to be (at least from their opinion) is a kaijufest.

Sure, that's cool, but it only works for one movie, maybe a sequel.

No more than that.

Meanwhile Marvel, while it's all superheroes, all their movies are of different genres and with different thematics and aesthetics.
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gottatalktothefake wrote:Ahhh the Godzilla vs Kong thread, my favorite place to discuss A Quiet Place

I know, right? There's like a whole page dedicated to it! I sure am glad I stumbled into the Godzilla vs Kong thread out of idle curiosity, I was beginning to think I'd never find a place to talk about A Quiet Place. Maybe they should just cancel GvK altogether so we can all go see A Quiet Place 2 and discuss that here come March 2020?

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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:18 am

I don't want no name US monsters, that'd be scraping the bottom of the barrel.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Rhedosaurus » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:38 am

Orichalcum wrote:JAGzilla and UltramanGoji summed everything up perfectly, GKOTM was a financial failure because it was a sloppy ass movie with piss poor writing, acting, and directing, that movie was doomed from the start when Mike got his hands on the project.


I still say that the 5 year gap in between it and Godzilla 2014 was the main reason. You can't have such a large gap in between movies with the MCU carpet bombing movies with hit after hit.

And I don't think it was doomed to begin with, but if GvK underperforms, then we might as well consider it the end of the Godzillaverse continuing.

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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Orichalcum » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:42 am

GKOTM was having a lot of issues behind the scenes which Mike’s alluded to a little here and a little there, to call the 5 year gap the “main reason” is going a little too far, there’s a ton of aspects being overlooked
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:07 am

Orichalcum wrote:GKOTM was having a lot of issues behind the scenes which Mike’s alluded to a little here and a little there, to call the 5 year gap the “main reason” is going a little too far, there’s a ton of aspects being overlooked


Blame everything but the movie itself
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby UltramanGoji » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:09 am

kaijuguy19 wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:The MonsterVerse, as a concept, is a failure. There is no greater cinematic universe at play, just a prequel and two sequels to the initial movie. Next year we have the big crossover film after, what, maybe one and a half films of buildup? After that, what’s there to go? Whats there to incorporate? How can you expand this universe beyond Godzilla and Kong? Some will say Gamera or Ultraman but that’s just a fever dream at this point. I just don’t think there was ever a way to fully make a Marvel-styled cinematic universe with this property. Godzilla is really the only character with a wide range of options for such a concept but it’s an extremely niche and ridiculed franchise in America. Something like this just wasn’t ever going to be as successful as we’d hoped. A crossover with Kong is the ceiling.

The movie’s themselves on the other hand? Hard to say. We’re not done yet, that’s for sure. We’ve had two successes and one disappointment (read: not a failure, just an underperforming film). GVK will make or break it, I think.


You can bring in monsters from Warner Brother's own library such as Rehdosaurus,Ymir,Them etc into the Monsterverse along with building upon some of the new creations it brought such as Behemoth, Not to mention that it'd be a good time to bring in some ideas and creations that were planned but never saw the light of day like Gryphon from the 94 Godzilla movie as well as Frankenstein vs Kong. Add that to Toho renewing their contract with Legendary and allowing them to use more Toho creations and the Monsterverse will have plenty to offer after GvK.

So yeah there's actually still plenty of things to do after GvK but again that depends on GvK being a hit to begin with.


It wasn't a case of "what else is there to do", it was a case of "what is there to do that can be better than Godzilla vs. Kong".

None of that is anywhere near as hype-worthy as GvK. None of the Warner Brothers creations have escaped "catalog release hell" in decades and will not grab audiences' attention as much as Kong. No matter the marketing, no matter the story, or the cast, it's just plain-and-simply not a profitable idea.

They also will definitely not be scooping around the recycle bin of unmade projects for stuff to do as using any of those designs or ideas would require paying royalties to the designers and writers who came up with the ideas to begin with. Even though Rossio & Elliot are working on GvK, the fact still remains that the studio will likely think of an original creation that they can control fully way before taking one that's already been created and subsequently discarded.

Frankenstein is public domain, yes, but it's also box office poison. The last two mainstream films featuring the Frankenstein mythos were box office bombs. The name is recognizable but only in the same vein that Garfield is a recognized name. People associate Frankenstein with the Boris Karloff films, cereals, and holiday decorations. It's name isn't going to draw in a substantial crowd.
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Re: Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

Postby LockBite » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:21 am

Calling it a Monsterverse to begin with always seemed like chest thumping. No media “universe” starts off as anything more than a series. But seeing how there’s nothing wrong with what’s been actually done so far, that’s more of a semantics thing.

One thing I’ve noticed is that dark and claustrophobic movies tend to suffer at the box office. We can see this in the MCU repeatedly, and we sure as hell saw it with Dumbo. That’s what I think Kong’s success will depend on: not its actual quality (as long as it’s decent) but moreso the feeling it gives to audiences. Is it bright and adventurous and action packed, with a plot that makes sense? If so, it’ll do fine.


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