Is the Monsterverse doomed to begin with?

[MothraRocks]

Not doomed, but it is on a bumpy path IMO. The first two films were fine, had a couple of flaws, sure, but overall were good for setting the groundwork. While I enjoyed KOTM, it had many more issues compared to the previous two. Quite honestly, we are going to need good human side stories, or at the very least entertainng ones. For example, I know some don't like EHoTD, but I find it to have a fun human story, having to escape terrorists, save natives, awaken Mothra to save them, and Godzilla to fight off Ebirah, just entertaining stuff like that where the entire story isn't just "oh god gotta get away/stop the monsters", give some human villians too.

On top of that, I think they might have to expand a bit past Godzilla and Kong to make it a cinematic universe. I know it sounds biased coming from me, but maybe give Mothra a film or two that stands independent from the other two, and give each monster a recurring human character or two. Ie, Kong has Brooks, Godzilla (had) Serizawa and Graham, Mothra could have Chen (and I suppose Ling if they wanna drive home the Shobijin factor). I feel like recurring human characters would really help the interconnectedness.

Finally, they also need an overarching story to make it a CU. It should ultimately be leading up to something, and avoid the "villain of the week/movie", otherwise it will be the same thing, over and over, just with a new opponent.

[gridiron_kaiju]

No it wasn’t.
No it isn’t.

There now move on to an actual relevant topic.

[Orichalcum]

The MonsterVerse was certainly I trouble once GKOTM hit the scene, but we were getting GvK no matter what so hopefully it can manage to save face and give us and the GA something worth talking about for years to come.

I just hope the MV can go out with a bang instead of a whimper.

[Dynomy-DX]

I don’t think we can really say if it’s doomed or not yet. The moment of truth is GvK, and if they have plans afterwards. That’s the make or break point depending on not just critical reception, but overall sales.

[vibramrunner]

It wasn't a case of "what else is there to do", it was a case of "what is there to do that can be better than Godzilla vs. Kong".

None of that is anywhere near as hype-worthy as GvK. None of the Warner Brothers creations have escaped "catalog release hell" in decades and will not grab audiences' attention as much as Kong. No matter the marketing, no matter the story, or the cast, it's just plain-and-simply not a profitable idea.

This is my biggest hang up with the MV continuing; there's no good reason for it to. Every other in-universe concept will not equate to Godzilla vs Kong, and that certainly includes a Godzilla vs Kong redux. I don't think there's anymore "world" to build here that's more engaging than Godzilla and Kong's intersecting story arc.

The Millennium movies kind of get a bad rap, but IMO, an anthology series is the way to go at this point. Users have brought up Marvel frequently in this thread, and while Disney is the envy of cinema right now (at least in terms of cash flow), DC might just turn everything on its head with Joker -- which is getting rave reviews already. Who knows if a "multi-verse" actually works, but it's got to be a helluva lot better than Justice League. Basically: If you're not going to win the cinematic universe game, don't play it.

There's a lot that can be explored with Godzilla monster movies that aren't possible in the MV -- movie template examples include apocolyse-like survival stories (Monsters, 2010) or even mockumentary-style (Trollhunter, also 2010). (Highly recommend both movies btw.) Maybe even take Shin's template, and have Godzilla as a stand-in for environmental disaster (in a manner more Americans will appreciate).

[Orichalcum]

Nicely said.

[vibramrunner]

^Thanks, I appreciate it!

[KingKaiju]

Where do people keep coming up with the idea that critics were never going to give these films a fair shake?

Just based off of a search on Rotten Tomatoes:

Godzilla 2014 - 75%
Kong: SI - 75%
Shin Godzilla - 86%
Pacific Rim - 72%
Rampage - 52%
Colossal - 81%

Most critics liked these films. How much? It varies. But enough for them to give them positive reviews.

I think the issue with the Monsterverse, as with every other universe right now, is that while Godzilla and Kong were well contained films, KOTM tried suuuuuuper hard to dive into the world building and universe building. While I appreciated the larger universe it made, it took away from the actual story. That, topped off with a bloated promotion campaign, the five year gap, and just pitting it in May completely hurt this movie. I don't know where GvK is going, but I'm hoping that it goes back to trying to be a self contained, even film. I love KSI, but I always feel like I'm watching two different films in one. While Godzilla is slow and boring at times, it's at least consistent with what it is. KOTM, which I loved, went completely off the rails at times. Started out Pacific Rim, ended with Pacific Rim 2.

[vibramrunner]

I don't know where GvK is going, but I'm hoping that it goes back to trying to be a self contained, even film.

This is just intuition talking, but KOTM and GvK strike me as sibling films. Filmed around the same time, storyboarded in conjunction with each other, with one a direct sequel of the other. I think there definitely will be less world-building, if only because KOTM shot itself in the foot rapidly fleshing everything out, like you mentioned, but in principle they may be very similar.

[KingKaiju]

I don't know where GvK is going, but I'm hoping that it goes back to trying to be a self contained, even film.

This is just intuition talking, but KOTM and GvK strike me as sibling films. Filmed around the same time, storyboarded in conjunction with each other, with one a direct sequel of the other. I think there definitely will be less world-building, if only because KOTM shot itself in the foot rapidly fleshing everything out, like you mentioned, but in principle they may be very similar.

Yeah, considering how close they were in production, I'd imagine that this is going to be more KOTM than 2014.

[Orichalcum]

No surprise there, KSI broke the tone back in 2017 and made the MV more family friendly going forward after being told G14 "took itself way too seriously".

I just hope GvK doesn't make the same mistakes GKOTM made

[jackzilla]

I don't think the Monsterverse is doomed, but I think the number one thing that WB and Legendary should be focusing on is making the movies better. Now, I love KOTM, but, even I admit that it is extremely poorly written and has weak characters and storytelling. I like it because, it has dope scenes of my favorite monsters fighting. You might say OH UR WRONG U NEED TO ENJOY REAL GOOD MOVIES MORE UR FEEDING GARBAGE, but, that's just the way I am. I'd say that, if WB and Legendary want to keep the Monsterverse afloat, get better people to make better movies. The big ongoing thread I am seeing in here that I disagree with, "THE MONSTERVERSE HAS NOWHERE TO GO AFTER GVK", I disagree completely. As someone else said, the only limit is imagination. They can do anything they want to keep it going, as long as it's good.

[JAGzilla]

Why not just bring back the Showa system? Make whatever movie you want to make, and maybe there's a loose sort of continuity stringing things along when it's convenient, or not when it isn't. That, or just go full anthology and make sure to market it as such to avoid confusing the GA.

[Cookson]

Everything points to how GvsKong does.

Going beyond that... if you want to use old classic WB monsters like the Ymir and the Rhedosaurus, cool, but don’t market them as being classic. Just role with it.

[Pacfanweb]

No lol. Two middling successes could have lead to a breakout hit, its just that KOTM failed to deliver and all hope rests on GVK.

One movie flops and all of a sudden its a "critics/audiences have an inherent dislike for the genre" despite past positive reception.

KOTM has an 83% audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Sounds like the actual audience received it pretty well.

[LSD Jellyfish]

No lol. Two middling successes could have lead to a breakout hit, its just that KOTM failed to deliver and all hope rests on GVK.

One movie flops and all of a sudden its a "critics/audiences have an inherent dislike for the genre" despite past positive reception.

KOTM has an 83% audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Sounds like the actual audience received it pretty well.

Audience ratings are irrelevant.
Transformers Revenge of the Fallen has an audience RT score of 57%.

Obviously a Godzilla film, with tons of fan service, is going to garnish high ratings on a movie review site.!

[G2000]

This exact exchange has happened at least a hundred times by now

[BlankAccount]

This exact exchange has happened at least a hundred times by now

It's like we're on an infinite loop.

[LSD Jellyfish]

This exact exchange has happened at least a hundred times by now

And it’ll keep happening with GVK, Shin Godzilla and so on and so forth.

Same as it ever was.

[GodzillaBurgh]

It's too damn big to fail. The critics doesn't seem to consider Godzilla as potential for an all new franchise, they just simply view it as popcorn movies.