What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:47 pm

_JNavs_ wrote:Shin's roar did not match up to his design at all lmao, it didn't feel like a "stylistic" choice, it felt like a fan edit.


The film has tons of sound effects (and music) from Toho's golden age sci-fi films, it was absolutely a stylistic choice lol. Anno is a known fan of Showa kino, he wasn't sloppily merging roars here and there to a Godzilla incarnation which already had it's own distinct character.

The more I think about, the fan-edit thing Smuggers originally said fits KOTM to a tee. The design approach of photoshopping 54 spines onto Godzilla, slapped on old roars, changing the skreeonking feet and tail, the new atomic breath, etc. all feel like sloppy Dougherty spent too much time reading r/godzilla discussions on G14's biggest flaws and tried amending them. Obvious fan service and allusions like the outpost numbers, Serizawa's suicide reversal, Burning Godzilla, queen of the monsters poop, """Anguirus""" at the temple, and legitimizing the KING OF DA MONSTAS as an in-universe title is overbearing wish-fulfillment that gets in the way. It appeals solely to the crowd who get caught up on whether or not Edwards is a TRUE FAN because his Godzilla has too much of a T-rex like jaw. :lol:
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby Living Corpse » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:52 pm

I think some of the roar mixing worked very well, and other times not so much. When Godzilla falls into the hole in Antarctica you don't need to speak kaiju to know that skroonk is Godzilla for "OH SHIIIIT!"
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby Gojira18 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:09 pm

Living Corpse wrote:I think some of the roar mixing worked very well, and other times not so much. When Godzilla falls into the hole in Antarctica you don't need to speak kaiju to know that skroonk is Godzilla for "OH SHIIIIT!"

That, the opening title roar, when Godzilla roared as Ghidorah escaped Antarctica, and when Burning Godzilla revealed himself were really good. The others were kinda off, admittedly.

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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby _JNavs_ » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:22 pm

One issue i had, was that most of the roars were off screen, making it seem like someone was playing with a kaiju soundboard. In G14 every Godzilla roar was shown and embraced in full glory. In KOTM he roared like 6 times off screen, with the showa roar instead of his new classic throat bellow roar.
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby Godzilla165 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:04 pm

I honestly hope that they stick with Godzilla’s tailor made roars from G14 for G v K. Whilst some of the classic roars fit pretty well IE: Antarctica, the opening credits and Burning Godzilla... The others didn’t, most notably the one for his entrance in Boston.

The sounds in G14 and, for the most part, KotM, were made specifically for this version of Godzilla. They match perfectly and I can instantly hear those roars, grunts and growls whenever I think of Legendary Godzilla. The Showa stuff just didn’t really fit a majority of the time. Hopefully they stick with the established sounds for Godzilla vs Kong, and even create new noises for both of them.

And, hopefully Rodan can actually get a better representation of his squawk. It’s funny, it seemed as though it was a lot more apparent in those little teasers on Twitter, whereas in the film itself, Rodan really didn’t have a unique sound that separated him from the other big three. His classic screech would fit this new design so bloody well.
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby attilagodzilla » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:04 am

one thing watching a Godzilla 2019 roar video on youtube, thebfirst 2 roars have the legendary skreee followed by showa onk followed by legendary onk, and it's jut really throwing me off, not bad just weird https://youtu.be/lKZ9Alw6EgI
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby GuardianGhido » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:34 am

attilagodzilla wrote:one thing watching a Godzilla 2019 roar video on youtube, thebfirst 2 roars have the legendary skreee followed by showa onk followed by legendary onk, and it's jut really throwing me off, not bad just weird https://youtu.be/lKZ9Alw6EgI

Actually the first one had Legendary and Showa roars mixed with Iguana sounds. The 2nd one had a hybrid Legendary and Showa SKREE wwith Showa's ONK. The 2nd one is actually one of my favorite versions of Legendary's roar. It has the shrill screech of the original Showa and the deafening bellow of 2014. Just my opinion though, I understand if others find it bad or weird.
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby Smuggers » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:12 am

They're fan made, so... :shrug:
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby Stump Feet » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:50 am

Here’s a write up of my feels on each final battle from the MV

The way I felt, San Francisco is still the best structured fight scene to date in the MonsterVerse. Everything felt more satisfying from the heavier feel and dire stakes of it all, a lot was played for more “drama” :shrug:

KSI was just Kong trading blows with the other monster the whole time, it’s a great action piece but that’s all it is, the drama is sucked dry. Kong’s an emotional character who plays off humans very well, when you write the humans into a corner where they can’t really do anything but just watch till they’re needed, it loses a bit of that Kongy flavor.

GKOTM plays on the “epicness” and throws way too much at you, we’re told at the very beginning of it all that Godzilla’s about to go “thermonuclear” and they do nothing to show it, we then jump between Millie and Mark/Emma’s subplot for an absurdly long amount of time interwoven between every other shot of the monsters (who are just standing still looking menacingly waiting for the other monster to hit it, save for Mothra and Rodan who are speedballing the entire time) it’s just an overload, there’s too much going on to care about anything but the battle, not to mention every big dramatic scene like Godzilla going limp, hitting the ground from the sky drop, Godzilla laying there injured, Madison waking up, or Mothra’s death has absolutely no room to breathe because it plays out for half a second to show the next part of the battle.
Last edited by Stump Feet on Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby king_ghidorah » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:51 am

I actually appreciate that Godzilla roars video. I kind of like all of the roars in that context but I prefer it when the Legendary Godzilla at least has his trademarked guttural finale to cap it off.

Basically. If it starts like the Showa roar and ends like the Legendary that’s just fine to me

So I liked that second roar too

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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby darthzilla99 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:19 pm

For those of you complaining about King Ghidorah losing in the gulf of Mexico if it weren't for the OD, if the movie was set up as no way Godzilla could beat Ghidorah without kaiju help or powerups, then it would have weakened part of the narrative. Not only would Godzilla not felt like he earned the king of the monsters title, it would have destroyed the "man involvement makes nature worse and man should let nature be in control".

One thing KOTM did better than G2014 was the man messing with nature narrative. In G2014 Dr. Serizawa states Nature has come to restore balance, yet the Mutos would have killed Godzilla if Ford did not interfere. In contrast, in KOTM Godzilla would have killed Ghidorah had man not interfere.

I know people are upset Ghidorah wasn't OP and curbstomping Godzilla every fight, but the above two mentioned narratives are more important than fanboy fantasies or 100% King Ghidorah character roots (which Ghidorah has been shown as Godzilla's equal rival but in different circumstances multiple times as well).
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby MegaEvilSaurus666 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:20 pm

I am horrified at the side-by-side comparison between the design changes from 2014 to 2019.

Quite honestly, they ruined Godzilla's proportions in GKOTM. He's much too wide, and it invokes a nearly human vibe that just should not be there. It's more apparent than a man in a suit. The 2014 design looked convincing. Like an animal. It's evident that the 2014 film had a lot of thought put into Godzilla's biomechanics and movement, and his size was truly factored in. The clash that Godzilla and King Ghidorah have in Boston looks so bad, not only because Godzilla's shoulders nearly dislocate to reach King Ghidorah, but because he's moving far too fast. The exaggerated proportions in 2019 just further tell me that I'm looking at a CGI monster.

The lighting in the film is very color coded, and unrealistic. It again takes me out of the film because not only am I looking at CGI monsters fight, but the lighting isn't natural.

And then the camera angles don't do it any favors. The rendering is fantastic, but when things don't look the way they would in life, your eyes pick up on that. Sure, everyone knows that it's fiction, but convincing effects are important.

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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby GuardianGhido » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:29 am

darthzilla99 wrote:For those of you complaining about King Ghidorah losing in the gulf of Mexico if it weren't for the OD, if the movie was set up as no way Godzilla could beat Ghidorah without kaiju help or powerups, then it would have weakened part of the narrative. Not only would Godzilla not felt like he earned the king of the monsters title, it would have destroyed the "man involvement makes nature worse and man should let nature be in control".

One thing KOTM did better than G2014 was the man messing with nature narrative. In G2014 Dr. Serizawa states Nature has come to restore balance, yet the Mutos would have killed Godzilla if Ford did not interfere. In contrast, in KOTM Godzilla would have killed Ghidorah had man not interfere.

But that's pretty much the EXACT OPPOSITE OF HOW THE SITUATIONS SHOULD HAVE BEEN. The MUTOs are natural creatures that nonetheless did not belong in the ecosystem of today and were causing imbalance by their attacks on human settlements, only aided by the humans attempting to nuke them. The MUTOs are nothing special and enemies Godzilla's been fighting for millenia, so logically he should have had no trouble taking them down as he had been doing so since ancient times. It makes sense for the Apex Predator to keep the other species in check, even if they adapt to fight him specifically, to keep nature's balance, Godzilla will overcome them.

King Ghidorah on the other hand is an alien creature not part of the natural order who only came to this world to bring ruin and utterly decimate the natural order through his terraforming plot. It makes sense for the Earth's greatest defender to struggle with something that's NOT from Earth in the first place. An outsider like him would be something a creature from Earth shouldn't know how to deal with on his own, it would have been far more tense and painted Ghidorah as a much bigger threat if Godzilla was no match for the alien menace without any outside help. Instead, Mike decides to call him a weakling that Godzilla could just solo without breaking a sweat, even weaker than the MUTOS! I personally refuse to believe that claim as it's not what I got from the movie and I believe it's better to leave outcomes up to the viewers' interpretation and I interpret that while Ghidorah was being thrashed at several poiints, he wasn't at risk of death until Burning Godzilla showed up. I would have preferred him to be even more dangerous, enough for Godzilla to be clearly inferior to his power, but if they must be portrayed as equals, I'd rather not have one nearly kill the other without any trouble.
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:05 am

The big cheer inducing moment in the Boston fight is the arrival of a living nuclear weapon accompanied by the aerial and naval forces of the US.

Yikes!
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby Stump Feet » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:10 am

Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote:The big cheer inducing moment in the Boston fight is the arrival of a living nuclear weapon accompanied by the aerial and naval forces of the US.

Yikes!

Yikes indeed :lol:

Am I the only one who absolutely hates that weird shakey cam effect they do in new movies all the time now? I’m talking about that shot of Ghidorah situating his wings when he bumps them into that thing in Antarctica, and the shot of Godzilla focusing in on the submarine after he’s revived.
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby G2000 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:15 am

Stump Feet wrote:Am I the only one who absolutely hates that weird shakey cam effect they do in new movies all the time now? I’m talking about that shot of Ghidorah situating his wings when he bumps them into that thing in Antarctica, and the shot of Godzilla focusing in on then submarine after he’s revived.


No, that’s been a fairly common criticism of the movie (IIRC there’s one for every monster, Rodan has one when he first emerges from the volcano and I think Mothra had one during her hatching sequence) and I think they’re called “snap zooms.” I think they try to convey a sense of chaos by sort of resembling something a guy with a handheld camera might do in that situation, but ultimately it just looks really amateurish and oftentimes unintentionally funny

At least we got a few reaction gifs out of them
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby Stump Feet » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:19 am

Snap Zooms, huh? Yeah that sounds about what I’m describing. I absolutely hate that in every movie I see
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby Gigantis » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:20 am

I don't think this is entirely accurate,but i feel snap zooms are made to get a sense of realism in a disaster movie. It gets repetitive after a while though.
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby Stump Feet » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:21 am

It just looks off to me, no matter what I’m watching
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Re: What Are Your Complaints About KOTM?

Postby darthzilla99 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:32 am

GuardianGhido wrote:
darthzilla99 wrote:For those of you complaining about King Ghidorah losing in the gulf of Mexico if it weren't for the OD, if the movie was set up as no way Godzilla could beat Ghidorah without kaiju help or powerups, then it would have weakened part of the narrative. Not only would Godzilla not felt like he earned the king of the monsters title, it would have destroyed the "man involvement makes nature worse and man should let nature be in control".

One thing KOTM did better than G2014 was the man messing with nature narrative. In G2014 Dr. Serizawa states Nature has come to restore balance, yet the Mutos would have killed Godzilla if Ford did not interfere. In contrast, in KOTM Godzilla would have killed Ghidorah had man not interfere.

But that's pretty much the EXACT OPPOSITE OF HOW THE SITUATIONS SHOULD HAVE BEEN. The MUTOs are natural creatures that nonetheless did not belong in the ecosystem of today and were causing imbalance by their attacks on human settlements, only aided by the humans attempting to nuke them. The MUTOs are nothing special and enemies Godzilla's been fighting for millenia, so logically he should have had no trouble taking them down as he had been doing so since ancient times. It makes sense for the Apex Predator to keep the other species in check, even if they adapt to fight him specifically, to keep nature's balance, Godzilla will overcome them.

King Ghidorah on the other hand is an alien creature not part of the natural order who only came to this world to bring ruin and utterly decimate the natural order through his terraforming plot. It makes sense for the Earth's greatest defender to struggle with something that's NOT from Earth in the first place. An outsider like him would be something a creature from Earth shouldn't know how to deal with on his own, it would have been far more tense and painted Ghidorah as a much bigger threat if Godzilla was no match for the alien menace without any outside help. Instead, Mike decides to call him a weakling that Godzilla could just solo without breaking a sweat, even weaker than the MUTOS! I personally refuse to believe that claim as it's not what I got from the movie and I believe it's better to leave outcomes up to the viewers' interpretation and I interpret that while Ghidorah was being thrashed at several poiints, he wasn't at risk of death until Burning Godzilla showed up. I would have preferred him to be even more dangerous, enough for Godzilla to be clearly inferior to his power, but if they must be portrayed as equals, I'd rather not have one nearly kill the other without any trouble.



I don't know where you got Mike saying he's a weakling (No, Godzilla being able to kill Ghidorah solo in a water fight doesn't count). It's pretty clear in the movie all other things being equal (meaning no kaiju interference, no man made electricity power sources, no nuclear power ups for Godzilla), Ghidorah wins when fighting on land as he can fly, shoot his beams faster than Godzilla does his breath, and has healing all while being equal with Godzilla in melee combat and durability. Godzilla wins in water because now essentially Godzilla can fly too in the water Environment and hes more agile in water so he gets superior melee combat.

Next, your idea about Godzilla shouldn't know how to fight Ghidorah would normally be legitimate except Kong skull Island already established that Godzilla and Ghidorah fought in ancient times. It would not have made sense for Godzilla to not have at least some idea to fight Ghidorah (plus the cave painting showed Godzilla fighting Ghidorah solo). It's not Mike's fought he had to make sure to not have continuity flaws.

Here's what would have happened to the movie if they changed to these fan preferences:

1. Ghidorah becomes a Gary Suu.
2. Continuity and plot holes because of Kong Skull Island.
3. Weaker narratives (man screws up nature and Godzilla becoming king of the monsters)
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