KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

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KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:09 am

I’ve seen a lot of negativity regarding KOTM; some critical, and some financial, but I’d like to point out something that’s subtly obvious. KOTM was a massive success; for Toho!

Yeah, let’s forget about Legendary for a moment, and strictly focus on Toho. KOTM, and the Monsterverse as a whole, has been a pure win for them, in fact in some ways it might be better for them that KOTM did “so-so”.

People forget until G14 came out, the Godzilla franchise was on hiatus, and relatively low on familiarity scales in many people’s minds. G14 brought Godzilla to the world, and while it did decent, it was a massive success for Toho. Same for KOTM. It’s important to note that the Monsterverse is part of Toho’s plan in making the Godzillla franchise well known throughout the world. In that regard it was very successful. Even if KOTM was a flop, it’s free advertising for future Toho installments. It’s also easy to see KOTM as a flop, with a 150 mil + budget. Shins was 1/10th of that.

It’s also important to remember that Toho owns a big chain of movie theaters in japan. Just having a Godzilla film in theaters, be it Shin or KOTM, is a big boost to Toho regardless. In all Toho cinemas I’m pretty sure they’re selling tons of Godzilla merch at the theater. It’s hard to grasp but they have a little gift shop there and mines was full of Godzilla merch which maybe half the theater quickly lined up to buy.

And as convuluted as it sounds, Toho may win by KOTM doing so-so. A lot of critics and people in general received Shin way better, and it shows that a big budget doesn’t mean a big success. All Toho has to do is release a decent film, similar in aesthetic quality to Shin, and they’ve got more gold on their hands. It shows that Toho is and always will be Godzilla’s creators. If KOTM was randomly better then 54, or was so popular, it might actually be hard to garnish reception for their new Godzilla films.

To be clear, I’m not saying Toho wants Legendary to do bad, and I’m not saying that kotm underperforming is a good thing for Legendary. I’m saying that Legendary lost the battle, and that Toho, and the Godzilla IP at large win the war.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

Postby Jeff-Goldblum2 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:15 am

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Re: KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

Postby GuardianGhido » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:16 am

Toho and good Godzilla movies aren't always one and the same. Shin was good but then came Godzilla Earth. I'd take more Monsterverse over Anime Godzilla poop anyday. So I'd hope Legendary wins more battles in the future.

If Toho takes over Godzilla again, I hope they learn that we want either action packed monster battles with a servicable human plot (KOTM and most action oriented Godzilla movies) or a meaningful story that iis told in an engaging way and still gives worthy presence to the monsters and destruction (Gojira and Shin), not boring melodrama with ugly looking monster slideshows, major battles being handwaved offscreen and an ungodly amount of wasted potential. (Anime).
Last edited by GuardianGhido on Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:24 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

Postby Rhedosaurus » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:10 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:I’ve seen a lot of negativity regarding KOTM; some critical, and some financial, but I’d like to point out something that’s subtly obvious. KOTM was a massive success; for Toho!

Yeah, let’s forget about Legendary for a moment, and strictly focus on Toho. KOTM, and the Monsterverse as a whole, has been a pure win for them, in fact in some ways it might be better for them that KOTM did “so-so”.

People forget until G14 came out, the Godzilla franchise was on hiatus, and relatively low on familiarity scales in many people’s minds. G14 brought Godzilla to the world, and while it did decent, it was a massive success for Toho. Same for KOTM. It’s important to note that the Monsterverse is part of Toho’s plan in making the Godzillla franchise well known throughout the world. In that regard it was very successful. Even if KOTM was a flop, it’s free advertising for future Toho installments. It’s also easy to see KOTM as a flop, with a 150 mil + budget. Shins was 1/10th of that.

It’s also important to remember that Toho owns a big chain of movie theaters in japan. Just having a Godzilla film in theaters, be it Shin or KOTM, is a big boost to Toho regardless. In all Toho cinemas I’m pretty sure they’re selling tons of Godzilla merch at the theater. It’s hard to grasp but they have a little gift shop there and mines was full of Godzilla merch which maybe half the theater quickly lined up to buy.

And as convuluted as it sounds, Toho may win by KOTM doing so-so. A lot of critics and people in general received Shin way better, and it shows that a big budget doesn’t mean a big success. All Toho has to do is release a decent film, similar in aesthetic quality to Shin, and they’ve got more gold on their hands. It shows that Toho is and always will be Godzilla’s creators. If KOTM was randomly better then 54, or was so popular, it might actually be hard to garnish reception for their new Godzilla films.

To be clear, I’m not saying Toho wants Legendary to do bad, and I’m not saying that kotm underperforming is a good thing for Legendary. I’m saying that Legendary lost the battle, and that Toho, and the Godzilla IP at large win the war.



Here's the problem: This was supposed to be THE movie that was going to make Godzilla far more mainstream, as well as those of the other 3 major monsters: Rodan, Mothra, and Ghidorah. You don't think that Toho WASN'T pulling for this movie to do well simply because of that reason?

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Re: KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

Postby szmigiel » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:59 am

I have to take this with a grain of salt unless you can provide some links or articles that can back this up. Otherwise it is wishful thinking. As fans we know very little on the details of the agreement between Legendary Pictures and Toho. We do know that Toho didn't want to release anything the same time as Legendary pictures, so they only did their own thing when a gap opened up due to the delays with KOTM. So we are kind of aware that Toho wants to make sure new films are kind of an event, and not to overexpose the franchise where people are getting tired of it, and overall ticket sales go down.

We know Toho wants to do more films of their own after the unexpected success of Shin Godzilla, both at the box office and critically. We don't know if Legendary really wants to put big budgets behind films that only do adequately at the box office, mostly overseas where they need to spilt the profits more.

I will agree it is keeping the Godzilla Franchise in the public eye, and helps with merchandise sales. I was in the Kinokuniya in Chicago and they had a nice main aisle display of Godzilla merchandise. So it helps Toho with profits from licenses, and if the product is hot, you can assume Toho can fetch a higher price on licensing. But even during times when there are no new films, Godzilla is still a pretty hot license for Toho.
Last edited by szmigiel on Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

Postby Hokmuto » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:28 am

Rhedosaurus wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:I’ve seen a lot of negativity regarding KOTM; some critical, and some financial, but I’d like to point out something that’s subtly obvious. KOTM was a massive success; for Toho!

Yeah, let’s forget about Legendary for a moment, and strictly focus on Toho. KOTM, and the Monsterverse as a whole, has been a pure win for them, in fact in some ways it might be better for them that KOTM did “so-so”.

People forget until G14 came out, the Godzilla franchise was on hiatus, and relatively low on familiarity scales in many people’s minds. G14 brought Godzilla to the world, and while it did decent, it was a massive success for Toho. Same for KOTM. It’s important to note that the Monsterverse is part of Toho’s plan in making the Godzillla franchise well known throughout the world. In that regard it was very successful. Even if KOTM was a flop, it’s free advertising for future Toho installments. It’s also easy to see KOTM as a flop, with a 150 mil + budget. Shins was 1/10th of that.

It’s also important to remember that Toho owns a big chain of movie theaters in japan. Just having a Godzilla film in theaters, be it Shin or KOTM, is a big boost to Toho regardless. In all Toho cinemas I’m pretty sure they’re selling tons of Godzilla merch at the theater. It’s hard to grasp but they have a little gift shop there and mines was full of Godzilla merch which maybe half the theater quickly lined up to buy.

And as convuluted as it sounds, Toho may win by KOTM doing so-so. A lot of critics and people in general received Shin way better, and it shows that a big budget doesn’t mean a big success. All Toho has to do is release a decent film, similar in aesthetic quality to Shin, and they’ve got more gold on their hands. It shows that Toho is and always will be Godzilla’s creators. If KOTM was randomly better then 54, or was so popular, it might actually be hard to garnish reception for their new Godzilla films.

To be clear, I’m not saying Toho wants Legendary to do bad, and I’m not saying that kotm underperforming is a good thing for Legendary. I’m saying that Legendary lost the battle, and that Toho, and the Godzilla IP at large win the war.



Here's the problem: This was supposed to be THE movie that was going to make Godzilla far more mainstream, as well as those of the other 3 major monsters: Rodan, Mothra, and Ghidorah. You don't think that Toho WASN'T pulling for this movie to do well simply because of that reason?

Only G-fans are the ones saying this. You think Toho and Legendary were saying that? Pfft, nah

Added in 1 minute 41 seconds:
All they care is that it’s monetarily successful.
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Re: KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

Postby vibramrunner » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:41 am

Hokmuto wrote:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:I’ve seen a lot of negativity regarding KOTM; some critical, and some financial, but I’d like to point out something that’s subtly obvious. KOTM was a massive success; for Toho!

Yeah, let’s forget about Legendary for a moment, and strictly focus on Toho. KOTM, and the Monsterverse as a whole, has been a pure win for them, in fact in some ways it might be better for them that KOTM did “so-so”.

People forget until G14 came out, the Godzilla franchise was on hiatus, and relatively low on familiarity scales in many people’s minds. G14 brought Godzilla to the world, and while it did decent, it was a massive success for Toho. Same for KOTM. It’s important to note that the Monsterverse is part of Toho’s plan in making the Godzillla franchise well known throughout the world. In that regard it was very successful. Even if KOTM was a flop, it’s free advertising for future Toho installments. It’s also easy to see KOTM as a flop, with a 150 mil + budget. Shins was 1/10th of that.

It’s also important to remember that Toho owns a big chain of movie theaters in japan. Just having a Godzilla film in theaters, be it Shin or KOTM, is a big boost to Toho regardless. In all Toho cinemas I’m pretty sure they’re selling tons of Godzilla merch at the theater. It’s hard to grasp but they have a little gift shop there and mines was full of Godzilla merch which maybe half the theater quickly lined up to buy.

And as convuluted as it sounds, Toho may win by KOTM doing so-so. A lot of critics and people in general received Shin way better, and it shows that a big budget doesn’t mean a big success. All Toho has to do is release a decent film, similar in aesthetic quality to Shin, and they’ve got more gold on their hands. It shows that Toho is and always will be Godzilla’s creators. If KOTM was randomly better then 54, or was so popular, it might actually be hard to garnish reception for their new Godzilla films.

To be clear, I’m not saying Toho wants Legendary to do bad, and I’m not saying that kotm underperforming is a good thing for Legendary. I’m saying that Legendary lost the battle, and that Toho, and the Godzilla IP at large win the war.



Here's the problem: This was supposed to be THE movie that was going to make Godzilla far more mainstream, as well as those of the other 3 major monsters: Rodan, Mothra, and Ghidorah. You don't think that Toho WASN'T pulling for this movie to do well simply because of that reason?

Only G-fans are the ones saying this. You think Toho and Legendary were saying that? Pfft, nah

Added in 1 minute 41 seconds:
All they care is that it’s monetarily successful.


I mean, I would argue there's a strong correlation between "Godzilla going mainstream" and "monetarily successful." But then, you look at some of the movies that Legendary puts out, like WOW, Jack the Giantslayer, The Great Wall, etc etc etc, and it's clear they aim to score big in the international markets with big, epic CGI fests that aren't necessarily a winner with critics or audiences in America. An argument can be made that KOTM is doing exactly what it was designed to do, if not quite as well as they'd hope.
Last edited by vibramrunner on Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:36 pm

Rhedosaurus wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:I’ve seen a lot of negativity regarding KOTM; some critical, and some financial, but I’d like to point out something that’s subtly obvious. KOTM was a massive success; for Toho!

Yeah, let’s forget about Legendary for a moment, and strictly focus on Toho. KOTM, and the Monsterverse as a whole, has been a pure win for them, in fact in some ways it might be better for them that KOTM did “so-so”.

People forget until G14 came out, the Godzilla franchise was on hiatus, and relatively low on familiarity scales in many people’s minds. G14 brought Godzilla to the world, and while it did decent, it was a massive success for Toho. Same for KOTM. It’s important to note that the Monsterverse is part of Toho’s plan in making the Godzillla franchise well known throughout the world. In that regard it was very successful. Even if KOTM was a flop, it’s free advertising for future Toho installments. It’s also easy to see KOTM as a flop, with a 150 mil + budget. Shins was 1/10th of that.

It’s also important to remember that Toho owns a big chain of movie theaters in japan. Just having a Godzilla film in theaters, be it Shin or KOTM, is a big boost to Toho regardless. In all Toho cinemas I’m pretty sure they’re selling tons of Godzilla merch at the theater. It’s hard to grasp but they have a little gift shop there and mines was full of Godzilla merch which maybe half the theater quickly lined up to buy.

And as convuluted as it sounds, Toho may win by KOTM doing so-so. A lot of critics and people in general received Shin way better, and it shows that a big budget doesn’t mean a big success. All Toho has to do is release a decent film, similar in aesthetic quality to Shin, and they’ve got more gold on their hands. It shows that Toho is and always will be Godzilla’s creators. If KOTM was randomly better then 54, or was so popular, it might actually be hard to garnish reception for their new Godzilla films.

To be clear, I’m not saying Toho wants Legendary to do bad, and I’m not saying that kotm underperforming is a good thing for Legendary. I’m saying that Legendary lost the battle, and that Toho, and the Godzilla IP at large win the war.



Here's the problem: This was supposed to be THE movie that was going to make Godzilla far more mainstream, as well as those of the other 3 major monsters: Rodan, Mothra, and Ghidorah. You don't think that Toho WASN'T pulling for this movie to do well simply because of that reason?

Toho produces things with fractions of a budget. While of course more money is always better, it doesn`t matter now because KOTM compared to something like GFW was a gigantic hit. If we ignore budgets for a second, way more people saw KOTM then Shin.

Toho can make a follow up to Shin, or whatever is next. It can have a budget of 20 million or whatever, and it can ride off the publicity of both Shin and KOTM. While I doubt it`ll get a wide release, it`s more likely to do even better then shin in overseas markets due to the other films.

Basically whatever Toho makes next is a success due to budget.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

Postby G2000 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:12 pm

Isn’t KoTM doing gangbusters in Japan? IIRC it surpassed Shin in terms of sheer box-office returns but I could be wrong
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Re: KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:55 pm

G2000 wrote:Isn’t KoTM doing gangbusters in Japan? IIRC it surpassed Shin in terms of sheer box-office returns but I could be wrong

I think it`s at least doing as well. Again, Toho owns the cinemas here, so they`re raking in the cash on multiple fronts.

Toho is the clear winner.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

Postby szmigiel » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:12 pm

G2000 wrote:Isn’t KoTM doing gangbusters in Japan? IIRC it surpassed Shin in terms of sheer box-office returns but I could be wrong

Shin Godzilla Week 1: Weekend $6,122,434 Week total $8,289,311
Godzilla KOTM Week 1: Weekend $6,251,316 Week total $8,485,180

So yes Godzilla KOTM surpassed Shin in terms of box office returns, but not that much. Real question is will it have legs enough to match the 13 week total of 75,398,709.

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Re: KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:19 pm

szmigiel wrote:
G2000 wrote:Isn’t KoTM doing gangbusters in Japan? IIRC it surpassed Shin in terms of sheer box-office returns but I could be wrong

Shin Godzilla Week 1: Weekend $6,122,434 Week total $8,289,311
Godzilla KOTM Week 1: Weekend $6,251,316 Week total $8,485,180

So yes Godzilla KOTM surpassed Shin in terms of box office returns, but not that much. Real question is will it have legs enough to match the 13 week total of 75,398,709.

I do highly doubt it will continue to be as successful overall.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: KOTM is a gigantic success (For Toho)

Postby Rhedosaurus » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:39 am

Hokmuto wrote:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:I’ve seen a lot of negativity regarding KOTM; some critical, and some financial, but I’d like to point out something that’s subtly obvious. KOTM was a massive success; for Toho!

Yeah, let’s forget about Legendary for a moment, and strictly focus on Toho. KOTM, and the Monsterverse as a whole, has been a pure win for them, in fact in some ways it might be better for them that KOTM did “so-so”.

People forget until G14 came out, the Godzilla franchise was on hiatus, and relatively low on familiarity scales in many people’s minds. G14 brought Godzilla to the world, and while it did decent, it was a massive success for Toho. Same for KOTM. It’s important to note that the Monsterverse is part of Toho’s plan in making the Godzillla franchise well known throughout the world. In that regard it was very successful. Even if KOTM was a flop, it’s free advertising for future Toho installments. It’s also easy to see KOTM as a flop, with a 150 mil + budget. Shins was 1/10th of that.

It’s also important to remember that Toho owns a big chain of movie theaters in japan. Just having a Godzilla film in theaters, be it Shin or KOTM, is a big boost to Toho regardless. In all Toho cinemas I’m pretty sure they’re selling tons of Godzilla merch at the theater. It’s hard to grasp but they have a little gift shop there and mines was full of Godzilla merch which maybe half the theater quickly lined up to buy.

And as convuluted as it sounds, Toho may win by KOTM doing so-so. A lot of critics and people in general received Shin way better, and it shows that a big budget doesn’t mean a big success. All Toho has to do is release a decent film, similar in aesthetic quality to Shin, and they’ve got more gold on their hands. It shows that Toho is and always will be Godzilla’s creators. If KOTM was randomly better then 54, or was so popular, it might actually be hard to garnish reception for their new Godzilla films.

To be clear, I’m not saying Toho wants Legendary to do bad, and I’m not saying that kotm underperforming is a good thing for Legendary. I’m saying that Legendary lost the battle, and that Toho, and the Godzilla IP at large win the war.



Here's the problem: This was supposed to be THE movie that was going to make Godzilla far more mainstream, as well as those of the other 3 major monsters: Rodan, Mothra, and Ghidorah. You don't think that Toho WASN'T pulling for this movie to do well simply because of that reason?

Only G-fans are the ones saying this. You think Toho and Legendary were saying that? Pfft, nah

Added in 1 minute 41 seconds:
All they care is that it’s monetarily successful.



A movie can still make a money and still be considered a failure. Hollywood is filled with such examples.


Zilla '98: Made a small profit, but was so hated by fans, the GA, and critics that a sequel was scrapped.


JP3: Made a small profit, but crippled the franchise for over 10 years.


X3 and Wolverine Origins: Both were profitable, but tarred the brand for a quite sometime until Days Of Future Past ret-conned them from the timeline.


Man Of Steel and BvS: Both made a profit, but set back the DCEU. The poor performance of the BvS alone was largely responsible for JL bombing.


Considering how businesses as a rule want to expand their brand names in order to male more money, then common sense dictates that Toho must be disappointed with how this movie is doing in the USA.


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