Toho Kingdom

I’ll agree with the sentiment that the five year gap was way too long. There were a sizable amount of people I saw who actually thought this was another reboot rather than a sequel

A shorter time frame would have been nice for sure, but there are tons of movies that went 5+ years between sequels where the next one exceeded the box office of the first. Terminator, Alien, Silence of the Lambs etc. Heck, a lot of people are expecting Avatar 2 to make a bazillion dollars and it'll be over 10 years apart at that point. I guess it's just a combination of the 3 that has led to the underwhelming numbers-time gap, philistine critics, brutal release window.

Now I'm wondering if Godzilla vs Kong has the opposite problem, I mean it's coming out in less than a year after KOTM got released. Is there such a thing as releasing a sequel too soon?

As I stated in my review in the spoiler thread, I think that the major issue is that this movie caters to much to the fan base rather than work on expanding the audience and include outsiders on this film's nods to the franchise. We can pick up on all of the references to the previous entries in the franchise, which has allowed us to see that this is a very good Godzilla film; however, I do not think the GA has enough knowledge of these films to put everything in context. As a result, I can understand why this film did not get positive reactions by critics (although I think they were too harsh on the movie and bias against the franchise is real). I went with a bunch of friends who had little to no knowledge of the movies and they all enjoyed it, but I definitely had to explain a good amount of the references to them.

As for the five year gap, I do think it played a role in this film's underperformance. Kong: Skull Island is a very different movie and its tone and look do not blend with the two Godzilla films. It's relationship to the Monsterverse is subtle and in my opinion, it would definitely work as a stand-alone film had the filmmakers not included the post-credit scene. The divisive opinions on 2014 probably did not help either as I do not think it is the most rewatchable film (heck I have probably only watched it 3-4 times since it released). Because of these factors surrounding the previous two films, I think that KoTM has an uphill battle in the box office.

I read an article yesterday saying that Legendary is not too worried as they believe that international markets may be this film's saving grace. They are disappointed with the American market's reaction, but it sounds like they are optimistic that China and other areas might be KoTM's saving grace. Hoping for the best as some are saying that if KoTM underperforms, post-production for Godzilla vs. Kong could be impacted.

GodzillaXGomoraFight wrote:I read an article yesterday saying that Legendary is not too worried as they believe that international markets may be this film's saving grace. They are disappointed with the American market's reaction, but it sounds like they are optimistic that China and other areas might be KoTM's saving grace. Hoping for the best as some are saying that if KoTM underperforms, post-production for Godzilla vs. Kong could be impacted.

I hope this turns out that way. I really don't want the Godzillaverse to end with GvK. As a long time Godzilla fan-since 1994 or 1995-I want something else to support the MCU, and I also say this as a fan of MCU since 2010.

Living Corpse wrote:Now I'm wondering if Godzilla vs Kong has the opposite problem, I mean it's coming out in less than a year after KOTM got released. Is there such a thing as releasing a sequel too soon?

I do think there is legitimacy to this idea. While it may be forgivable once or twice, not very franchise has the luxury of being functionally immune to audience fatigue, such as the MCU may arguably be. Granted, this is only one film being released shortly after its previous installment, so I doubt audiences have grown tired of the idea quite yet. There is also the concern that releasing a sequel so soon could result in a worse product, but while we cannot rule this out, we only have so much information to go on at this point to truly assert that the film will be bad.

Either way, I do think that Godzilla VS Kong may be in a tough position, similar to King of the Monsters was; the Monsterverse in general seems to have trouble finding its footing.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

GodzillaXGomoraFight wrote:I read an article yesterday saying that Legendary is not too worried as they believe that international markets may be this film's saving grace. They are disappointed with the American market's reaction, but it sounds like they are optimistic that China and other areas might be KoTM's saving grace. Hoping for the best as some are saying that if KoTM underperforms, post-production for Godzilla vs. Kong could be impacted.

I hope this turns out that way. I really don't want the Godzillaverse to end with GvK. As a long time Godzilla fan-since 1994 or 1995-I want something else to support the MCU, and I also say this as a fan of MCU since 2010.

I would love it if we got more movies after Godzilla vs. Kong. I have always had the expectation that the Monsterverse would end up as a trilogy and then after 2020, Toho would take over again and start producing Godzilla films every 1-2 years. I'll take whatever Godzilla movies we can get good or bad as it gives us all something to talk about and look forward to.

GodzillaXGomoraFight wrote:
I read an article yesterday saying that Legendary is not too worried as they believe that international markets may be this film's saving grace. They are disappointed with the American market's reaction, but it sounds like they are optimistic that China and other areas might be KoTM's saving grace. Hoping for the best as some are saying that if KoTM underperforms, post-production for Godzilla vs. Kong could be impacted.

You have the link by any chance? I'd love to give it a read.

vibramrunner wrote:

GodzillaXGomoraFight wrote:
I read an article yesterday saying that Legendary is not too worried as they believe that international markets may be this film's saving grace. They are disappointed with the American market's reaction, but it sounds like they are optimistic that China and other areas might be KoTM's saving grace. Hoping for the best as some are saying that if KoTM underperforms, post-production for Godzilla vs. Kong could be impacted.

You have the link by any chance? I'd love to give it a read.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/god ... 30890.html

The Baranosdragon wrote:
There is also the concern that releasing a sequel so soon could result in a worse product

I'm not worried, being as though KOTM and this were essentially filmed in conjunction. I think they knew exactly where they wanted to take KOTM and GvsK before they started filming. KOTM was so different from SI or G'14 that, for me, it's easier to think of KOTM and GvsK as KOTM 1 and KOTM 2.

Added in 29 seconds:

GodzillaXGomoraFight wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/god ... 30890.html

I appreciate it!

The Baranosdragon wrote:

Living Corpse wrote:Now I'm wondering if Godzilla vs Kong has the opposite problem, I mean it's coming out in less than a year after KOTM got released. Is there such a thing as releasing a sequel too soon?

I do think there is legitimacy to this idea. While it may be forgivable once or twice, not very franchise has the luxury of being functionally immune to audience fatigue, such as the MCU may arguably be. Granted, this is only one film being released shortly after its previous installment, so I doubt audiences have grown tired of the idea quite yet. There is also the concern that releasing a sequel so soon could result in a worse product, but while we cannot rule this out, we only have so much information to go on at this point to truly assert that the film will be bad.

Either way, I do think that Godzilla VS Kong may be in a tough position, similar to King of the Monsters was; the Monsterverse in general seems to have trouble finding its footing.

I myself have this fear. The fact that GvS could wind up bombing hard like Justice League did. The only exception being that people just won't see it due to [insert reason here] while as JL suffered from a protest of people not seeing it after getting burned by MOS and BvS.

GodzillaXGomoraFight wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

GodzillaXGomoraFight wrote:I read an article yesterday saying that Legendary is not too worried as they believe that international markets may be this film's saving grace. They are disappointed with the American market's reaction, but it sounds like they are optimistic that China and other areas might be KoTM's saving grace. Hoping for the best as some are saying that if KoTM underperforms, post-production for Godzilla vs. Kong could be impacted.

I hope this turns out that way. I really don't want the Godzillaverse to end with GvK. As a long time Godzilla fan-since 1994 or 1995-I want something else to support the MCU, and I also say this as a fan of MCU since 2010.

I would love it if we got more movies after Godzilla vs. Kong. I have always had the expectation that the Monsterverse would end up as a trilogy and then after 2020, Toho would take over again and start producing Godzilla films every 1-2 years. I'll take whatever Godzilla movies we can get good or bad as it gives us all something to talk about and look forward to.

I'm like that myself. With the Godzilla franchise, it always has hope and potential. It's just that with this movie underperforming which could very lead to the Godzillaverse ending sooner then I want to, I'm just going to see this as a bitter ending and a missed opportunity.

That movie should have been to godzilla what infinity war was to avengers.....Sooo far from it.

But hey im still gonna be at the opening for GvK.

Pkmatrix wrote:

ApexOversteer wrote:Aladdin took a bigger than expected bite too, as well as Rocketman and Ma both over-performing...

??? at the bolded.

Rocketman and Ma UNDERPERFORMED. Remember how Rocketman was supposed to make $35M to $45M (last Thursday Box Office Mojo was predicting "no less than $30M to $35M") while Ma was supposed to make $25M to $30M (though to be fairer to it, Box Office Mojo had downgraded that to $15M to 17M by last week)? Rocketman ended up at $25M and Ma at only $18M.

Aladdin DID take a very big bite, though, and is where I place most of the blame as the movie proved much stronger than many of us thought it would be.

What Box Office Mojo projected is irrelevant, they weren't the ones making the money. Both films exceeded the projected opening weekend expectations of their respective studios.

Point is, when you include Aladdin, between those three films, there was ~$90M spent at the cinemas, that Godzilla didn't earn...

What if the BO return does lead to the MonsterVerse being over after Godzilla vs Kong, BUT when Toho kickstarts its world of Godzilla films, Legendary/WB helps out with production? In return they handle qsome form of release over here akin to the Dragonball Super movies? Maybe something like that would be a better investment for them. All us hardcore fans would see them, and maybe the novelty of a limited release of a real Japanese Godzilla film would draw in more normies slowly? I seem to recall Shin Godzilla getting more press than I expected by my local newspapers and such.

Major sssspielberg! wrote:What if the BO return does lead to the MonsterVerse being over after Godzilla vs Kong, BUT when Toho kickstarts its world of Godzilla films, Legendary/WB helps out with production? In return they handle qsome form of release over here akin to the Dragonball Super movies? Maybe something like that would be a better investment for them. All us hardcore fans would see them, and maybe the novelty of a limited release of a real Japanese Godzilla film would draw in more normies slowly? I seem to recall Shin Godzilla getting more press than I expected by my local newspapers and such.

Collaboration between Legendary and Toho might just bring Godzilla to the greatness the franchise deserves. Even if it's a small fraction of what we expected before KOTM Box Office showed us the reality, it would still be great. I also want this.

Major sssspielberg! wrote:What if the BO return does lead to the MonsterVerse being over after Godzilla vs Kong, BUT when Toho kickstarts its world of Godzilla films, Legendary/WB helps out with production? In return they handle qsome form of release over here akin to the Dragonball Super movies? Maybe something like that would be a better investment for them. All us hardcore fans would see them, and maybe the novelty of a limited release of a real Japanese Godzilla film would draw in more normies slowly? I seem to recall Shin Godzilla getting more press than I expected by my local newspapers and such.

I...would be disappointed. Don't get me wrong, I love the Toho films and will love their future films, but I was hoping to get both the Monsterverse and World of Godzilla, and if I lose the Monsterverse, well, there's no telling me that doesn't suck. I've been freaking loving these movies.

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GodzillaXGomoraFight wrote:Hoping for the best as some are saying that if KoTM underperforms, post-production for Godzilla vs. Kong could be impacted.

God I don't want GvK to be impacted negatively, I want it to look as good as possible.

Vakanai wrote: I...would be disappointed. Don't get me wrong, I love the Toho films and will love their future films, but I was hoping to get both the Monsterverse and World of Godzilla, and if I lose the Monsterverse, well, there's no telling me that doesn't suck. I've been freaking loving these movies.

World of Godzilla is a marketing strategy, not a cinematic universe.

Hokmuto wrote:World of Godzilla is a marketing strategy, not a cinematic universe.

So if Monsterverse fails I'll be out of any Godzilla cinematic universe. So yeah, worse than I thought. Damn.

Hokmuto wrote:

Vakanai wrote: I...would be disappointed. Don't get me wrong, I love the Toho films and will love their future films, but I was hoping to get both the Monsterverse and World of Godzilla, and if I lose the Monsterverse, well, there's no telling me that doesn't suck. I've been freaking loving these movies.

World of Godzilla is a marketing strategy, not a cinematic universe.

Yeah but the marketing strategy still included the plans for new movies.

GoWhaleTours wrote:

Hokmuto wrote:

Vakanai wrote: I...would be disappointed. Don't get me wrong, I love the Toho films and will love their future films, but I was hoping to get both the Monsterverse and World of Godzilla, and if I lose the Monsterverse, well, there's no telling me that doesn't suck. I've been freaking loving these movies.

World of Godzilla is a marketing strategy, not a cinematic universe.

Yeah but the marketing strategy still included the plans for new movies.

Feel like this is besides the point. I'll feel bad if the Monsterverse fails, and some hypothetical about Legendary helping out Toho isn't going to salve that wound.