Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby _JNavs_ » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:54 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:Well at the end of KOTM Boston is completely demolished...like completely donezo, like Final Wars level of leveled.

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Didn't the film end right after Godzilla roared? Similar to Godzilla vs Destoroyah, Final Wars etc?
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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:54 pm

_JNavs_ wrote:Same way G:Raids Again glossed over the destruction Anguirus and Godzilla caused, vs the nuclear holocaust themes of Gojira 54.

I don't think it's fair to criticize KOTM for being different when compared to the darker grittier "original" 2014 film.

As it happens in almost every era, minus Millennium.


99% sure Raids Again literally has a scene where the cast talks about the destruction at their totaled workplace and we see imagery of a burning Osaka with one of the female leads.

Besides, do you really wanna compare KOTM to Raids Again of all Godzilla movies lol
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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby _JNavs_ » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:55 pm

Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:Same way G:Raids Again glossed over the destruction Anguirus and Godzilla caused, vs the nuclear holocaust themes of Gojira 54.

I don't think it's fair to criticize KOTM for being different when compared to the darker grittier "original" 2014 film.

As it happens in almost every era, minus Millennium.


99% sure Raids Again literally has a scene where the cast talks about the destruction at their totaled workplace and we see imagery of a burning Osaka with one of the female leads.

Besides, do you really wanna compare KOTM to Raids Again of all Godzilla movies lol

No lol, but we have to understand that the second film of every era isn't going to double down on the exact same themes as the first.

Btw I'm pretty sure they showed not only a family in KOTM literally running through the chaos of Boston as the fights were happening but they also had a shot of a burning Washington D.C.
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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:13 pm

It`s not an issue of it completely dropping the themes or messages from the first film; its doing a complete and utter reversal. Of course a film`s sequel will be different. But they don`t poop on the previous films themes. Godzilla vs. Biollante takes place five years after Godzilla 84. It doesn`t talk too much about nukes, but it does stay fairly serious in regards to the biogenetics. In addition, the ANEB is introduced, which is another super weapon. And the Heisei series does a good job with keeping the nuclear themeing consistent.

None of those films actively shoot themselves in the foot either. The entire plot of this movie was how the environment and interesting biodiversity is being ruined by man, so nature must reclaim the earth, only to have mostly the same people, take a nuke and detonate it under the ocean.

GRA is a horrible film to compare KOTM to as well. GRA does it very poorly, but still then its more consistent then this. I didn`t even think of it that much, but Maddie`s plan is really skreeonking dumb; theres no real reason why she couldn`t have brought the orca to the military and have them use it on some remote island or on the coast. She essentially is just as much to blame for the destruction of Boston.

Ill say something massively controversial, but at least the Anime Trilogy, for all its faults, kept its themes very consistent.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby MegaEvilSaurus666 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:24 pm

_JNavs_ wrote:
Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:Same way G:Raids Again glossed over the destruction Anguirus and Godzilla caused, vs the nuclear holocaust themes of Gojira 54.

I don't think it's fair to criticize KOTM for being different when compared to the darker grittier "original" 2014 film.

As it happens in almost every era, minus Millennium.


99% sure Raids Again literally has a scene where the cast talks about the destruction at their totaled workplace and we see imagery of a burning Osaka with one of the female leads.

Besides, do you really wanna compare KOTM to Raids Again of all Godzilla movies lol

No lol, but we have to understand that the second film of every era isn't going to double down on the exact same themes as the first.

Btw I'm pretty sure they showed not only a family in KOTM literally running through the chaos of Boston as the fights were happening but they also had a shot of a burning Washington D.C.

Burning Washington D.C. is something I don't think I saw even once. Unrealistically flooded and overblown stormy Washington D.C. is what I saw, though.

I don't think I even remember an evacuation plan in Boston, and I'm sure I saw lights in some of the buildings. Do I remember this wrong? Was there an explanation I missed? So, thousands of people probably died and no one bats an eye?

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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:25 pm

Nah, they evacuate Boston beforehand so you don't have to worry about civilians. That's when Brown's character gets into the stadium
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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby MegaEvilSaurus666 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:28 pm

Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote:Nah, they evacuate Boston beforehand so you don't have to worry about civilians. That's when Brown's character gets into the stadium

Such breakneck speed on the pacing that I missed that, it seems.

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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby Living Corpse » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:57 pm

JAGzilla wrote:While the whole deal with radiation causing impossible explosions of new life like rainforests growing in the Sahara or an overnight rebounding of fish stocks is just plain bonkers, the idea of radiation as a point-blank destroyer of life isn't accurate, either. Chernobyl, for example, is known for having thriving wildlife populations, with the radiation having fairly limited health effects aside from some serious mutations early on.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/04/060418-chernobyl-wildlife-thirty-year-anniversary-science/

So cities and areas that the kaiju clear of humans, even if they are irradiated, do seem likely to fill right up with healthy-ish plants and animals.


The new life isn't normal, it's probably not new but the opposite, ancient life that came from similar environments as the Titans, feeding off radiation like them. They probably have been sleeping much like them or in some cases dormant eggs.

After all these creatures don't just absorb radiation exclusively, they still eat food like normal life.
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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:37 pm

It`s worth noting though that even in the cases mentioned about the affect of radiation, nothing in the article indicates the Radiation was a good thing. The reason why the animals have returned, is that there are simply no humans to kill them off. This also started occuring way after the accident. Saying that radiation caused life is ridiculous.
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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby Living Corpse » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:54 pm

I'll be honest, the newspaper clippings at the end credits went by too fast. Did they say it was radiation bringing back plants? Or is it more like Biollante making pollen that made flowers in that one deleted scene? Cause I just took it as a easter egg referencing Biollante.

I'm not that bothered by it either way, you have to assume there were other life forms that lived in the same environment as the Titans and not all of them had to be giant monsters. I feel like this is more of saying nature finds a way, much as Dr. Malcom said in Jurassic Park. It's also possible these new forms of life are not natural and the Titans are mutating new forms of life never before seen, we've seen this done before in Godzilla films with the sea lice in G1984 and the wildlife in the Godzilla anime.
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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby JAGzilla » Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:14 pm

Your theory is possible, LC, but I don't think a revival of prehistoric life was the intent. The plants overgrowing San Francisco looked normal enough, and a standard, modern oarfish was used to demonstrate the recovery of ocean ecosystems. The movie was pretty straightforward and tell-don't-show-y in its delivery of information, so I feel like they would have been much more open about 300-million-year-old life suddenly swarming across the planet and (realistically, anyway) wreaking unholy havoc on already strained modern life. The terrorists' whole plan was based on the assumption that the Titans would restore modern ecosystems, not replace them.

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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby Mecha-SpaceGhidorah » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:49 am

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote:Burning Washington D.C. is something I don't think I saw even once. Unrealistically flooded and overblown stormy Washington D.C. is what I saw, though.

I don't think I even remember an evacuation plan in Boston, and I'm sure I saw lights in some of the buildings. Do I remember this wrong? Was there an explanation I missed? So, thousands of people probably died and no one bats an eye?
I don't remember for sure about an evac plan for Boston, but as far as D.C. they absolutely showed it burning. Not juat burning but as a fiery hellscape. It was even featured prominently in the second trailer.
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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:24 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:Using the Showa Era Godzilla as a defense of this, is kind of misleading though. Post DAM, I’m pretty sure they completely drop any reference to Godzilla being a nuclear oriented creature; and this is again a symptom of generalizing showa Godzilla as one era, rather then desperate parts; even in SoG Godzilla was portrayed as a fearful nuclear monster.

I distinctly remember the scientist from vs Hedorah mentioning how Godzilla was born from atomic testing. Something along those lines.
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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby MegaEvilSaurus666 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:28 am

Mecha-SpaceGhidorah wrote:
MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote:Burning Washington D.C. is something I don't think I saw even once. Unrealistically flooded and overblown stormy Washington D.C. is what I saw, though.

I don't think I even remember an evacuation plan in Boston, and I'm sure I saw lights in some of the buildings. Do I remember this wrong? Was there an explanation I missed? So, thousands of people probably died and no one bats an eye?
I don't remember for sure about an evac plan for Boston, but as far as D.C. they absolutely showed it burning. Not juat burning but as a fiery hellscape. It was even featured prominently in the second trailer.

I saw something much different in the second trailer and in the final film, then. I saw a massive storm over a flooded capital. Only a few flames were visible by comparison to everything else. More water, tornadoes, and lightning than flames.

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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby NBG2 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:54 am

I take issue with the way nukes are in the MonsterVerse as a whole.

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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby Deathginger » Wed May 13, 2020 12:37 pm

Yeah, it's like the history of nuclear testing has become completely uncoupled from the American Monsterverse, and that bugs me. There's a G2014 special feature called "Operation Lucky Dragon." Which doesn't mention anything about nuclear testing, or the contamination of the Lucky Dragon #5. Same thing when KOTH flies into Site 54, Castle Bravo. Castle Bravo, the tremendous testing error that was a worldwide disaster, contaminated the Luck Dragon... But no. apparently, this isn't the sort of thing we want to even remotely mention in an American film. But we'll annihilate an ancient civilization with a nuke to power up Godzilla.

I kind of get the path the franchise took to get to 'blow up a nuke to power Godzilla up. Once he's shown to consume radiation in Return of Godzilla, the card was on the table.

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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Fri May 15, 2020 2:40 am

Deathginger wrote:Yeah, it's like the history of nuclear testing has become completely uncoupled from the American Monsterverse, and that bugs me. There's a G2014 special feature called "Operation Lucky Dragon." Which doesn't mention anything about nuclear testing, or the contamination of the Lucky Dragon #5. Same thing when KOTH flies into Site 54, Castle Bravo. Castle Bravo, the tremendous testing error that was a worldwide disaster, contaminated the Luck Dragon... But no. apparently, this isn't the sort of thing we want to even remotely mention in an American film. But we'll annihilate an ancient civilization with a nuke to power up Godzilla.

I kind of get the path the franchise took to get to 'blow up a nuke to power Godzilla up. Once he's shown to consume radiation in Return of Godzilla, the card was on the table.

Whoa, It didn't even click to me that was what the in location name of the film is for a second. Really let that sit in,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Bravo

Even if it's not intentional or malicious, it shows how much thought it gave into stripping Godzilla of any symbolism and haphazardly using imagery because it looks or sounds cool. While not as bad, it's on the same path as naming something "Fat-Man" or "Hiroshima" in universe.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Fri May 15, 2020 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby Major sssspielberg! » Fri May 15, 2020 7:03 am

Yeah, even Godzilla vs Megalon treated the nuclear issue better than 2014 or KOTM. 2014 glossing over things like the aforementioned Lucky Dragon incident for the sake of 'lore' seemed kinda dirty back then, but the Castle Bravo bit in KOTM didn't really register until just now. I was too distracted by the casual use of nukes and superweapons that had ZERO NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES in a GODZILLA MOVIE lmao
Even Godzilla vs King Ghidorah used the idea of supercharging Godzilla with nuclear energy, but boy did that come back to bite those involved in the ass.
They didn't have to bend over backwards to have the nuclear revival of Godzilla have consequences either. His faux-burning power up could have burned him out by the end, leaving all these rampaging titans with no alpha.
That would have cast both the nuke AND the oxygen destroyer in a less casual light.
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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby Tyrant_Lizard_King » Fri May 15, 2020 7:26 am

Plus in Godzilla vs King Ghidorah the idea that Shindo's company has their own nuclear sub is treated as very serious deal.
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Re: Radiation/Nuke Issues in the Monsterverse

Postby Giratina93 » Fri May 15, 2020 8:19 am

Major sssspielberg! wrote:Yeah, even Godzilla vs Megalon treated the nuclear issue better than 2014 or KOTM. 2014 glossing over things like the aforementioned Lucky Dragon incident for the sake of 'lore' seemed kinda dirty back then, but the Castle Bravo bit in KOTM didn't really register until just now. I was too distracted by the casual use of nukes and superweapons that had ZERO NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES in a GODZILLA MOVIE lmao


While the nukes used to revive Godzilla I cannot argue against, the OD absolutely DOES have a negative consequence in that it completely kills off the fishing industry Isla de Mara, forcing the residents, who RELY on said fishing to get by, to be desperate enough to find any other means of cash to get by, including selling the rotting head of Ghidorah to a eco-terrorist and his men. The movie also makes it plainly clear that, had the military not jumped the gun and dropped the OD ontop of Godzilla and Ghidorah's heads, the former would have killed the latter with ease thanks to ambushing him and dragging him underwater. Godzilla had the situation under control, and the military skreeonked it up with a weapon that just made everything else. Which kinda echoes back to Serizawa's reasoning for why he didn't want the OD to be in military hands in the original Gojira: They would have used it as a weapon of mass destruction, and made already bad situations worse.

Now, granted said scene is a post-credits scene, so YMMV on how much that weighs in....
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