Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

For the discussion of the Legendary Pictures MonsterVerse. This includes Godzilla (2014), Kong: Skull Island and any upcoming films under the MonsterVerse umbrella.
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Olzh26
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Re: Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

Postby Olzh26 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:53 am

good try

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Re: Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

Postby JAGzilla » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:55 am

vibramrunner wrote:
I really get the feeling that, with some monsters heading to Skull Island in the credits, that some monsters follow Kong and some follow Godzilla. I'm not really thrilled with that, if that's how it goes, but I'd be willing to see where they take it if true.

Hopefully the don't leak the whole skreeonking movie 9 months before it releases this time.



I'm getting that same feeling, but I will probably be on board. A full-on kaiju gang war, properly executed, would be about as epic as it gets.

And yes, a lack of leaks and spoilers would be nice. It's not too hard to avoid them, though. Not directing that just at you, by the way, but just in general. I've been seeing a lot of people griping that the trailers, other promotional material, and leaks gave practically all of the action away, and I'm like... well, what do you expect? Don't go looking for every scrap of info beforehand, and maybe the movie will actually be able to surprise you.

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Re: Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

Postby MegaEvilSaurus666 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:21 am

Honestly, there's a stark contrast between "ancient apex predator" and "alpha leader titan." I liked the original approach a lot better in concept and execution. Godzilla felt more alive and believable as a creature, with his own ecological niche, and his own evolutionary past. ADAM confirmed that Godzilla is not the only one of his species, and the apex predator idea confirmed that his species was dominant. His longevity puts him above most other species as well. The "god" comparison, along with the "King of the Monsters" title, was figurative, like how a lion is the "king of the savannah" and considered the apex predator. The MUTOs were to Godzilla what hyenas are to lions in some ways. The alpha titan idea undermines this, adding a level of personification that comes off as weird to me, and now, any other creature could "battle for dominance" and overthrow him. Like these ideas of Kong and Godzilla leading groups of titans that the shouldn't be able to communicate with. Hell, humans could overthrow either one with the messy nature of the last film's story. Using the technology of the Orca, along with the misused Oxygen Destroyer, Godzilla is a non-threat more than he ever was. Kong could be offed with a nuke or even maser cannons now. Human bio-acoustics are associated with an alpha now as well. Godzilla is something of an enigma now.

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Re: Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:23 am

It's the most obvious fan pleasing poop ever. Just kinda goofy. It's like the film is entirely structured to give some justification to some marketing term from the 50's.
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Re: Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

Postby MegaEvilSaurus666 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:59 am

Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote:It's the most obvious fan pleasing poop ever. Just kinda goofy. It's like the film is entirely structured to give some justification to some marketing term from the 50's.

And the main issue is, it literally applies in-universe. It's not just metaphorical or anything, which I believe works so much better. You could call the Heisei Godzilla the king of the monsters in those films, but he's not literally that. No other creature serves him or bows in his honor. He'd be the king for being arguably the strongest out there, but other creatures wouldn't just about serve him. Same goes for even the Final Wars Godzilla, from a movie that goes to a borderline parody level.

I hate feeling so negative about the film, but it just opens holes in the MonsterVerse, no matter how many people like it.

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Re: Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

Postby Omegamorph » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:04 pm

Only thing I didn't get -- and this is more about the film's utter inability to do anything but lampshade -- is how Ghidra would be able to exercise any sort of effect with its calls if it's an alien that fell out of the stars...

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Re: Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

Postby _JNavs_ » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:06 pm

It opens holes if you're not a fan of the way it's headed, for those of us that loved the film, the King of the Monsters moniker makes perfect sense.
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Olzh26
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Re: Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

Postby Olzh26 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:29 pm

if the director of KSI was Dougherty, then on the skull Island the animals would also obeyed and worshiped Kong
Last edited by Olzh26 on Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

Postby Living Corpse » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:09 pm

Olzh26 wrote:if the director of KSI was Dougherty, then on the skull Island the animals would also obeyed and worshiped Kong


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Re: Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:11 pm

Olzh26 wrote:the problem is not even that it is not grounded. You see, it is very strange when in the first film they said that Muto and Godzilla are natural enemies, to see in the second film how Muto recognizes Godzilla as an alpha

Yeah, the first film clearly established that the Mutos were parasitic organisms that periodically fed on Godzilla`s species. While Im glad the Muto`s returned and weren`t completely ignored it was a little jarring.
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Olzh26
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Re: Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

Postby Olzh26 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:24 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
Olzh26 wrote:the problem is not even that it is not grounded. You see, it is very strange when in the first film they said that Muto and Godzilla are natural enemies, to see in the second film how Muto recognizes Godzilla as an alpha

Yeah, the first film clearly established that the Mutos were parasitic organisms that periodically fed on Godzilla`s species. While Im glad the Muto`s returned and weren`t completely ignored it was a little jarring.

the main thing that he did not obey Godzilla, but simply was afraid of him. it does not contradict the fact that they are natural enemies. hyenas can also let go if they are threatened by a lion

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Re: Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

Postby vibramrunner » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:12 am

What doesn't make sense to me is why G would care, personally, about civilization, if he "stops monsters from destroying cities." I get being an alpha predator, but not caring about ants with iphones.

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Re: Alpha and King (Yay or Nah)

Postby JAGzilla » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:42 am

Well, don't forget that a human voice was part of the ORCA's Alpha frequency, so from that we can infer that Titans might view humans as an Alpha-level species in our own right. Not one worth paying too much attention to, obviously, but maybe worth holding some level of respect for. Or killing off, in Ghidorah's case. That viewpoint would be deserved, too, of course. Even if we can't really kill Titans, we can certainly injure them (as shown with the OD) or do various things to help one get an advantage over another. It's worth a smart Alpha's while to have humanity on his side.


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