Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

[Rando Yaguchi]

There are plenty.

Tako
Sakai
Junko
The Shobijin
Princess Salno
Fuji
Glenn
Miss Namikawa
Tetsuo
Controller of Planet X
Yoshimura
Ryota
Professor Kusumi
Goro Maki
Furukawa
Ichiro
Takasugi
Doctor Mafune
Katsura
Professor Hayashida
Prime Minister Mitamura
Goro Gondo
Miki Saguesa
Shindo
Aoki
Azusa
Yuki
Shinoda
Katagiri
Io
Yuri
Yuki
Miyasaka
Taizo
Akane
Sara
Joe Brody
Yaguchi
Akasaka
Prime Minister Okouchi
Ogashira
Shimura

And that's just off the top of my head, there are plenty of other good minor characters peppered throughout the series.

[Your Boy Leroy]

Don't forget Don Frye.

[The Zilla in Manila]

Don't forget Don Frye.

Underrated comment.

[Rando Yaguchi]

Captain Gordon is...very memorable. I'll give him that lol

[LegendZilla]

Captain Gordon is...very memorable. I'll give him that lol

I thought the actor playing him was awful.

[Rando Yaguchi]

I thought the actor playing him was awful.

Oh, he was awful. A lot of people enjoy his performance in a 'so bad it's good' kinda way, like the movie itself, which is cool. I can't be that charitable to either...but then again, I didn't see Final Wars until I was 21, so I wasn't the target audience, and therefore I have no nostalgia for any of it.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I rewatched this and G14 the other day in preparation of the latest film. I stand by a lot of my initial assessments that there's too many characters and that often a lot of the humor greatly deflates what would otherwise be great tension. I don't mind the Oxygen Destroyer so much now. All the hypocrisy and weirdness with the nukes in the film still bother me.

One thing I realized upon this viewing, that actually really soured the film for me, is how much of the second half is a lame let down. The first half has the Mothra Larva, The Godzilla Intimidation scene, and the first fight with Ghidorah, which is shorter than I remember but is serviceable. Then after that we have the Rodan awakening scene, followed by a skirmish between Rodan and Ghidorah before the oxygen destroyer sequence. After that the film slows way down, until Godzilla is re-awakened. And the entire fight with Ghidorah, while cool, is continually interrupted by stuff involving Emma and Mark, which is fine, but it never feels like we get a long uninterrupted sequence of all the monsters fighting.

I don't despise it anymore, but it's just sort of bleh.

[Your Boy Leroy]

I was actually watching some old video reviews of KOTM last night. One thing I never understood was the praise of the monster fight scenes, even in negative reviews. Yeah, the monsters do pop up more and sooner in this film, but aside from introductory or "character" moments (which I did appreciate), the battles themselves seemed too segmented for their own good. This was discussed earlier in either this thread or the G14 thread too. I didn't find the fights to be very satisfying at all, no matter how much I wanted to like the film.

[UltramanGoji]

Rewatched this tonight because you know why.

Two years have passed and to be honest...I've warmed up to this film a little bit. It's still nowhere near what I wanted out of a Godzilla 2014 sequel but for what it is I think it's somewhat better than I remember, however I still would not place it very high among its peers. Lower-mid tier is about where I'd put it.

What I liked:
- I do actually like Mark Russel more than I remember. I think he has inklings of a good character in him and Kyle Chandler is not so bad playing him. Mark gets a lot of "quiet moments" in this film, moments where action isn't happening and the audience is given a chance to relax and not be so caught up in the film's stakes. G14 had a lot of these and I'm glad at least a few made it into the sequel.
- Likewise, I liked Madison more this time around too. Not much else to really say, honestly. I just thought Millie Bobbie Brown did quite well in the role and I hope her relationship with her father is expanded upon in GVK, if only a little bit. The family drama in this is reminiscent of Godzilla vs. Mothra's, one of that movie's few strengths.
- Surprised at how much clearer some of the effects sequences were from what I remember. They're still a good 85% monochromatic (we'll get to that later) and the weather effects are still quite distracting, but there's way more instances of good-looking visible monster action and heavy detail in set pieces than I remember. Godzilla's lair in particular really works for me, the heavy fog and reddish orange hues work in highlighting it as a mystical place at the center of the Earth.
- I've always been mediocre on Bear McCreary's score but I've definitely come around to it. It's very good, especially the remixed Ifukube scores. I know it's blatant nostalgiabait/fanservice but fuck you, I'm only human. Even the original compositions are very good, such as Ghidorah's theme, Rodan's sky battle, and Serizawa's sacrifice.
- Again, I'm sorry but seeing big screen modern interpretations of Rodan, Mothra, and King Ghidorah will never not be cool.

What I disliked:
- The story is still bloated with so much unnecessary...stuff. Emma/Maddie's heel turn, the entirety of their plan, Alan Jonah's existence, pretty much all of the human villain plot exists solely as setup to make Ghidorah the true villain of the film and it just doesn't work. Alan Jonah has utterly no reason to exist at all in the story, he provides no angles of development or progression for it or its characters. There's no particular reason why Emma couldn't have just staged her and Maddie's abduction herself without outside help. And her plan...oh, Michael Dougherty where do I begin with this. From the idiotic eugenics angle to the facepalm-worthy line about Titan radiation being beneficial, to its delivery as a trite exposition dump via video conference call, it all just doesn't work, dude. Emma is not a convincing villain because her plan sucks and her position as head of Monarch should make her way more aware of how it's doomed to fail. If it was Alan Jonah, a rogue character unassociated with the organization, it wouldn't be as bad as he shouldn't know how the Titans or Ghidorah would react when they were woken up nor would he care.
- The treatment of past characters, primarily Dr. Graham. Her death was extremely unnecessary and reeks of the big writing crutch of not knowing what to do with a character so they kill her off. Serizawa fares much better and is given a solemnly well-executed sacrifice but it still kinda hurts knowing he won't be the MonsterVerse's Nick Fury popping up in every film. I feel like that's a missed opportunity.
- The humor is absolutely fucking atrocious in this film, most notably the near-constant onslaught of obnoxious and really uncomfortable sex jokes. Some jokes land (Madison flipping the bird to Jonah for one) but most of them are straight misses. I think the film needed to take itself a bit more seriously.
- Despite seemingly upping the ante on monster screentime and relevance in this film, most of the fight sequences are cut poorly together and, at times, barely showcased. The cutaway angle worked in G14 because it fit with the bystander perspective it wanted to provide and the final battle was mostly uninterrupted and satisfying. In KOTM, this angle is not a factor and it results in action sequences being interspersed with dramatic story progression which harms both areas: the action is happening so we're not as interested in the drama elements but at the same time, the drama elements are important to the story and we don't want to miss them either. The film needed to either commit to showcasing multiple action set pieces in their entirety or seriously reconsider the structuring of its story.
- The film's color grading needs some serious work. Pretty much the entire first act and first half of the second act until Rodan's awakening is shaded using nothing but blues or blue-adjacent colors. There's scattered scenes here and there of normal grading that work, but the vast majority of sequences are very monochromatic, causing details to be muddled or lost entirely and for the film to have this really garish homogeneous look.

As an example of how it affects certain scenes, take Godzilla's intimidation display. Castle Bravo's entire environment and set is lit using these bright blue colors:


But since that blue coloration is also the one associated with Godzilla, that means the intimidation display sequence doesn't necessarily work in differentiating itself from the rest of the enviornment:



To most people, this is a subconscious thing that they likely won't notice but color actually plays a vital role in establishing mood and distinct character and environmental motifs. Having both Castle Bravo and Godzilla's associated colors be near-identical shades of blue goes back to that "homogenization" I talked about earlier. It makes Godzilla seem less unique. Having Castle Bravo be lit instead with some sort of amber or even sterile white lighting would have made Godzilla's bright blue display feel much more important and impactful. This is just one example, but it's something that permeates the entire movie right from the first big set piece sequence with Mothra's hatching. The near-constant weather effects during any of Ghidorah's sequences also don't help either as they clutter the screen with visual noise that provides an unsatisfying picture. Weather can help a film create a visual identity (see Pacific Rim's Hong Kong battle) but if it's not paired with a satisfying palette of colors, it can just end up making the scenes look drab and boring, which is something you don't want for your sci-fi monster action movie.

Overall, I don't think I find KOTM to be that dreadful nor do I find it to be as spectacular or satisfying as others proclaim. I think it's more frustrating than bad because I can definitely see instances of what it wants to be and things it wants to do but it takes a few too many stumbles to hit all those notes.

Godzilla vs. Kong in approximately one more sleep for me. Can't wait.

[Jermobooka]

Rewatched this tonight because you know why.

Two years have passed and to be honest...I've warmed up to this film a little bit. It's still nowhere near what I wanted out of a Godzilla 2014 sequel but for what it is I think it's somewhat better than I remember, however I still would not place it very high among its peers. Lower-mid tier is about where I'd put it.

What I liked:
- I do actually like Mark Russel more than I remember. I think he has inklings of a good character in him and Kyle Chandler is not so bad playing him. Mark gets a lot of "quiet moments" in this film, moments where action isn't happening and the audience is given a chance to relax and not be so caught up in the film's stakes. G14 had a lot of these and I'm glad at least a few made it into the sequel.
- Likewise, I liked Madison more this time around too. Not much else to really say, honestly. I just thought Millie Bobbie Brown did quite well in the role and I hope her relationship with her father is expanded upon in GVK, if only a little bit. The family drama in this is reminiscent of Godzilla vs. Mothra's, one of that movie's few strengths.
- Surprised at how much clearer some of the effects sequences were from what I remember. They're still a good 85% monochromatic (we'll get to that later) and the weather effects are still quite distracting, but there's way more instances of good-looking visible monster action and heavy detail in set pieces than I remember. Godzilla's lair in particular really works for me, the heavy fog and reddish orange hues work in highlighting it as a mystical place at the center of the Earth.
- I've always been mediocre on Bear McCreary's score but I've definitely come around to it. It's very good, especially the remixed Ifukube scores. I know it's blatant nostalgiabait/fanservice but fuck you, I'm only human. Even the original compositions are very good, such as Ghidorah's theme, Rodan's sky battle, and Serizawa's sacrifice.
- Again, I'm sorry but seeing big screen modern interpretations of Rodan, Mothra, and King Ghidorah will never not be cool.

What I disliked:
- The story is still bloated with so much unnecessary...stuff. Emma/Maddie's heel turn, the entirety of their plan, Alan Jonah's existence, pretty much all of the human villain plot exists solely as setup to make Ghidorah the true villain of the film and it just doesn't work. Alan Jonah has utterly no reason to exist at all in the story, he provides no angles of development or progression for it or its characters. There's no particular reason why Emma couldn't have just staged her and Maddie's abduction herself without outside help. And her plan...oh, Michael Dougherty where do I begin with this. From the idiotic eugenics angle to the facepalm-worthy line about Titan radiation being beneficial, to its delivery as a trite exposition dump via video conference call, it all just doesn't work, dude. Emma is not a convincing villain because her plan sucks and her position as head of Monarch should make her way more aware of how it's doomed to fail. If it was Alan Jonah, a rogue character unassociated with the organization, it wouldn't be as bad as he shouldn't know how the Titans or Ghidorah would react when they were woken up nor would he care.
- The treatment of past characters, primarily Dr. Graham. Her death was extremely unnecessary and reeks of the big writing crutch of not knowing what to do with a character so they kill her off. Serizawa fares much better and is given a solemnly well-executed sacrifice but it still kinda hurts knowing he won't be the MonsterVerse's Nick Fury popping up in every film. I feel like that's a missed opportunity.
- The humor is absolutely fucking atrocious in this film, most notably the near-constant onslaught of obnoxious and really uncomfortable sex jokes. Some jokes land (Madison flipping the bird to Jonah for one) but most of them are straight misses. I think the film needed to take itself a bit more seriously.
- Despite seemingly upping the ante on monster screentime and relevance in this film, most of the fight sequences are cut poorly together and, at times, barely showcased. The cutaway angle worked in G14 because it fit with the bystander perspective it wanted to provide and the final battle was mostly uninterrupted and satisfying. In KOTM, this angle is not a factor and it results in action sequences being interspersed with dramatic story progression which harms both areas: the action is happening so we're not as interested in the drama elements but at the same time, the drama elements are important to the story and we don't want to miss them either. The film needed to either commit to showcasing multiple action set pieces in their entirety or seriously reconsider the structuring of its story.
- The film's color grading needs some serious work. Pretty much the entire first act and first half of the second act until Rodan's awakening is shaded using nothing but blues or blue-adjacent colors. There's scattered scenes here and there of normal grading that work, but the vast majority of sequences are very monochromatic, causing details to be muddled or lost entirely and for the film to have this really garish homogeneous look.

As an example of how it affects certain scenes, take Godzilla's intimidation display. Castle Bravo's entire environment and set is lit using these bright blue colors:


But since that blue coloration is also the one associated with Godzilla, that means the intimidation display sequence doesn't necessarily work in differentiating itself from the rest of the enviornment:



To most people, this is a subconscious thing that they likely won't notice but color actually plays a vital role in establishing mood and distinct character and environmental motifs. Having both Castle Bravo and Godzilla's associated colors be near-identical shades of blue goes back to that "homogenization" I talked about earlier. It makes Godzilla seem less unique. Having Castle Bravo be lit instead with some sort of amber or even sterile white lighting would have made Godzilla's bright blue display feel much more important and impactful. This is just one example, but it's something that permeates the entire movie right from the first big set piece sequence with Mothra's hatching. The near-constant weather effects during any of Ghidorah's sequences also don't help either as they clutter the screen with visual noise that provides an unsatisfying picture. Weather can help a film create a visual identity (see Pacific Rim's Hong Kong battle) but if it's not paired with a satisfying palette of colors, it can just end up making the scenes look drab and boring, which is something you don't want for your sci-fi monster action movie.

Overall, I don't think I find KOTM to be that dreadful nor do I find it to be as spectacular or satisfying as others proclaim. I think it's more frustrating than bad because I can definitely see instances of what it wants to be and things it wants to do but it takes a few too many stumbles to hit all those notes.

Godzilla vs. Kong in approximately one more sleep for me. Can't wait.

Nail on head.

I rewatched the MV, particularly KOTM last night in preparation for GvK as well, and while i can say i’ve warmed up to it (3/10 to 5/10 now), it’s still disappointing, dissatisfying, and frustrating. GvK, while having its own problems, sounds like a vast improvement from what i’ve heard in reviews and the spoiler thread, particularly with the fights (which are apparently really, really, really good).

It’s been...not so nice knowin’ ya, KOTM

Bon voyage!

[GodzillaFan1990's]

Things I would have changed regarding this movie was having G14 and KotM more interconnected having Ford die in Joe's place (Madison blaming Joe for his obsession that lead to his death, Joe realizing his obsession got his son killed making him more determined to stopping the MUTOs), Madison being his sister and Joe's daughter, both being the main characters in stopping the MUTOs. As I thought about it more, Madison easily could have been a character from the get-go.

In King of the Monsters, Joe would take on the role of Mark Russell and totally remove Emma as Alan Jonah was more than enough of the whole speech she said in the film and goal and reason for releasing the titans.

I definitely enjoyed both films especially for the different approaches they had but I felt this definitely would have helped both films been more improved.

Feel free to give your thoughts if you agree or disagree.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

There's no reason to bring the Brodys back or change their fates to connect in a sequel. On that note, Joe's story just does not work expanded, so I really don't see how this variation does anything to his character.

Also, I think making Madison Ford's daughter would really simplfiy that other then the logistics of when a grieving Joe suddenly had a relationship to have a 13 year old kid, what happned with her, whatever happened with Elle and Sam, how this kid gets involved with an actual terrorist organization,......

[UltramanGoji]

The Brody's work as bystanders to the disaster that G14 presents. It's a movie that frames itself less as a character-driven story and more of a spectacle film with the characters acting as audience surrogates. Most of the film presents the disaster (in this case, the monsters) through human perspectives either at eye-level or through windows in skyscrapers or vehicles. Ford, and by extension his family, are static characters, they're not supposed to change or expand in the story. That's not a negative either, the story sometimes just doesn't call for characters to have an arc. Ford's story in G14 is literally just "Find my family, whatever it takes". At the end of the film, he finds his family and they're safe. There's nothing else more for them to do. I don't think there was ever a good reason to bring them back.

[Your Boy Leroy]

Agreed 100%.

[daveblackeye15]

There are plenty of fair criticisms of KOTM and I rank it the lowest of the three Monsterverse movies but I still really like it.
Matt Frank had a brief spoiler free of review of GvsK and he said KOTM had delusions of grandeur and I got to argue against that point. KOTM knows what it is: a monster-fest and love letter to the fans. Could be better but I feel like it knows what it wants.

I feel like Zack Snyder's DC films are far more delusions of grandeur.

[Pkmatrix]

I'm expecting GvK to surpass this, but for now KOTM is my favorite MonsterVerse movie. For me, the MV has gotten better and better with each entry. ^_^

[tbeasley]

KOTM has questionable moments for sure but I think just from the sheer blockbuster spectacle of it (even though it wasn't technically a blockbuster), and seeing the 'Big 4' brought to life in such a way (as much as I love suitmation), it might be the most satisfying MonsterVerse entry for me. I have a hard time figuring out what they could do after Godzilla vs Kong.

[GodzillaFan1990's]

Since no one else has responded, thanks for everyone's thoughts and opinions on my take of the MonsterVerse. I also just figured too if they kept Bryan Cranston who has star power perhaps KotM could have done a little better.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I have to let things sit in my mind for a bit, but Godzilla vs. Kong did a lot of things that KOTM should have done. GvK feels a bit rushed, but it delivers on the action, which I still don't feel KOTM did. One positive to KOTM is that it's different. All four monster verse films have wildly different visual styles overall.

[Pkmatrix]

I'm going to need to rewatch it, but not only did GvK not surpass this movie for me...it did the exact OPPOSITE of EVERYTHING I liked about KOTM. GvK is easily my least favorite MonsterVerse movie, at least at the moment. I think everyone who criticized KOTM for having a weak story owes the movie a huge apology, KOTM is practically Shakespeare in comparison to GvK's story.

Really, the only thing GvK does better than this one IMO is the fight scenes and action are definitely way better, and it follows KOTM's lead with continuing to treat the kaiju as major characters in the story.