Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

For the discussion of the Legendary Pictures MonsterVerse. This includes Godzilla (2014), Kong: Skull Island and any upcoming films under the MonsterVerse umbrella.
Forum rules
Please be sure to read the subforum sticky "Regarding: Monsterverse Leaks & Unofficial Photos [Updated 7/13/2018]", linked below. Thank you!

https://www.tohokingdom.com/forum/viewt ... &p=1472505
Post Reply
User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 14610
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

G2000 wrote:I know you're just dead tired of hearing me say it by now but I still think that reviving a heroic Godzilla with a nuke to go save the day isn't inherently a bad or disrespectful premise, though I definitely think it was mishandled in several ways.
At this point we will just have to agree to disagree on that which is fine.
G14 definitely did a better job depicting modern American insecurities like overdependency on electronics, government conspiracies, and authorities completely mismanaging a crisis and inadvertently making things far worse; while I don't have a problem with KoTM's more escapist approach, it does attempt to mix in a muddled message about climate change that ultimately falls flat, and it is somewhat disappointing that a franchise that was built on fears of nuclear proliferation hasn't yet produced a film dealing with the modern resurgence of the nuclear arms race (I can't fault Shin for focusing on the 2011 tsunami and the Fukushima disaster but I had hoped they'd work in North Korean nuclear testing somehow, even if the film predated the current situation on the peninsula).
Some excellent points you raise here, and I actually never really thought of the stuff in bold. Yeah totally, the movie starts out with safety systems/information from things like seismic readings being unreliable. Expensive military jets, are completely useless and outdated, due to the Mutos, something that is a big issue right now in real life.

And yeah, I agree nuclear proliferation should make it back into the franchise, especially given escalation with Iran, Pakistan and India and NK.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

User avatar
_JNavs_
Keizer
Posts: 9657
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Location: New York

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by _JNavs_ »

I agree, G14 is a better film.

Because it's different.

KOTM felt like a Summer Blockbuster.
____________________________ImageImage___________________________
Instagram: @Lord.Gojira

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 14610
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

_JNavs_ wrote:I agree, G14 is a better film.

Because it's different.

KOTM felt like a Summer Blockbuster.
Finally something we can agree on ;)
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

User avatar
LegendZilla
Sazer
Posts: 10375
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:57 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by LegendZilla »

gridiron_kaiju wrote:
Terasawa wrote:
gridiron_kaiju wrote:
People took their kids to see Deadpool...and you’re worried about the word gonorrhea?
Deadpool was rated R and based on an edgy property. How many people realistically expected a Godzilla movie to have perverted jokes and an F-bomb?

Totally different things, dude.
And Avengers: Endgame dropped GD twice. Want to keep playing this game? I’ve got plenty other examples
GD?

User avatar
MegaEvilSaurus666
G-Force Personnel
Posts: 848
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by MegaEvilSaurus666 »

LSD Jellyfish wrote:I think Godzilla 2014 did a better job at adapting Godzilla, and maintaining it's own unique "Americaness" than KOTM. In my opinion, Godzilla 2014 is a prime example of reinventing Godzilla for an American audience in a good way. My big regret, is that I've consitently argued with people here about KOTM, using older Japanese films (which is still justified imo) instead of using a more easily comparable American film.

G14 did not pointlessly include the F-Word, simply because of how the MPAA works, it did not insert weird sex jokes throughout in fear that modern American audiences would be bored, or to ape off the banter present in MCU films.

The movie addresses a sort of modern American paranoia and distrust in governments and institutions with Joe Brody. It also deals with nuclear disasters respectfully, with the nuclear meltdown scene, and the whole "nukes aren't a solution" message at the end. The film isn't uber dark, and has some brief/fun moments, but never devolves into complete immaturity. The military takes their job, and what is unfolding seriously.

Godzilla 2014 is just a well made film. The monsters and Mutos have a better sense of scale. The cinematography is better. There's actual sets. The film doesn't feel like it all takes place inside a room.
You hit the nail on the head with each of these points. I may have expressed some similar opinions in my comparisons of these films a few months ago, because this looks familiar. All of these differences, including the aforementioned humor complaints, really highlight my initial thoughts on GKOTM: it did not feel like a genuine sequel to Godzilla 2014, and it had a cheaper feel to it. It lacks the sincerity of the first film, which tried and mostly succeeded to adapt Godzilla for an American audience. It had its flaws, but the point of GKOTM, in my opinion, should have been to improve on the prior film's low points, and deliver a more action-oriented yet serious film.

And since GKOTM went in this pursuit of humor and levity, much to the detriment of the experience, and took a wrong turn in storytelling, I don't have much confidence in Godzilla vs. Kong.
I'd change my username if I had the chance. It's a typo. It's supposed to be "66," and it's a very unfortunate thing to have on my account. Please help. :lol:

User avatar
Gigantis
Sazer
Posts: 10553
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Location: Nebula of the Orion

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Gigantis »

^Yeah i can see reviews going "if you didn't like KOTM,you probably won't like GVK"
Image

A guy who randomly stumbled upon this place one day, invested much too much time into it, and now appears to be stuck here for all eternity..and strangely enough, i do not regret it!

User avatar
GuardianGhido
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 908
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:05 am

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by GuardianGhido »

Ok Gridiron's shaping up to be the opposite minded counterpart of Orichalcum now.

Y'know what, let's just move on from this topic, I got pissed over a tweet, many are pissed over the other jokes (I don't like em but I don't really care much) and some love all of it but there's no need to start a poopfest about it if civil discussion isn't an option.

Now, as Tyrantgoji tried a few pages ago, moving on to another more positive topic. I like the variety that we got in the minor titans with an insect, a mountain-reptile-bull thing and a mammoth sloth (a rarely seen mammal Kaiju). Here's hoping we get to see some more unique titans in the future MV, maybe a full on fish titan or a feathery avian titan.
Last edited by GuardianGhido on Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
DirektorSplennic wrote:Mr Goji, eabaker, and LSD are like the (un)Holy Trinity of Kaiju Kino.

User avatar
miguelnuva
Justiriser
Posts: 18476
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:32 pm

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by miguelnuva »

I just realized last night Godzilla's second form is based on Supercharged Godzilla from the old treadmaster toys.
Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira

Shadow Area 1-0
Image Image

User avatar
KingKaiju
Futurian
Posts: 3029
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:31 pm

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by KingKaiju »

Does anyone else find these Kevin jokes and memes just not funny? I'm not trying to be an asshole, but I feel like sometimes Godzilla fans are so desperate to find something funny to turn into a meme, that they just latch onto anything.
Image

User avatar
_JNavs_
Keizer
Posts: 9657
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Location: New York

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by _JNavs_ »

Lmao this question has been asked 4 times alone on this thread.

Kevin is funny in and of himself.

The jokes being made including Kevin, are subjectively not funny.

It's fine to have humor within the Godzilla community, and memes/jokes are welcome because they introduce people to things they may not have experienced otherwise.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
____________________________ImageImage___________________________
Instagram: @Lord.Gojira

User avatar
Hokmuto
EDF Instructor
Posts: 2895
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:24 pm

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Hokmuto »

KingKaiju wrote:Does anyone else find these Kevin jokes and memes just not funny? I'm not trying to be an asshole, but I feel like sometimes Godzilla fans are so desperate to find something funny to turn into a meme, that they just latch onto anything.
Oh yeah, it's definitely not funny. Can get quite cringey at times as well. But what can you do.
Long Live The King

User avatar
KingKaiju
Futurian
Posts: 3029
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:31 pm

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by KingKaiju »

I'm all for humor... I just want good humor.
Image

User avatar
DirektorSplennic
EDF Instructor
Posts: 2184
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:07 am
Location: Nebula M78

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by DirektorSplennic »

Can someone explain to me how reviving a heroic Godzilla with a nuke is disrespectful? I'm genuinely curious.

54 and Shin are clear (and very well done) depictions of the horrors of nuclear energy and why we shouldn't use it, but why is it deemed offensive for a Godzilla who is established as a hero, be revived by the very thing that makes him powerful?

User avatar
_JNavs_
Keizer
Posts: 9657
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Location: New York

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by _JNavs_ »

DirektorSplennic wrote:Can someone explain to me how reviving a heroic Godzilla with a nuke is disrespectful? I'm genuinely curious.

54 and Shin are clear (and very well done) depictions of the horrors of nuclear energy and why we shouldn't use it, but why is it deemed offensive for a Godzilla who is established as a hero, be revived by the very thing that makes him powerful?
Apparently because "Nuke is bad".
____________________________ImageImage___________________________
Instagram: @Lord.Gojira

User avatar
Gigantis
Sazer
Posts: 10553
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Location: Nebula of the Orion

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Gigantis »

DirektorSplennic wrote:Can someone explain to me how reviving a heroic Godzilla with a nuke is disrespectful? I'm genuinely curious.

54 and Shin are clear (and very well done) depictions of the horrors of nuclear energy and why we shouldn't use it, but why is it deemed offensive for a Godzilla who is established as a hero, be revived by the very thing that makes him powerful?
I honestly don't think it's disrespectful at all,but some could see it as disrespecting the ones who died during WW2 from the atomic bombs,but i don't see it that way.
Image

A guy who randomly stumbled upon this place one day, invested much too much time into it, and now appears to be stuck here for all eternity..and strangely enough, i do not regret it!

User avatar
Terasawa
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Terasawa »

It has nothing to do with Godzilla’s alignment with humanity and everything to do with the fact that a nuke is detonated for the benefit of mankind. That goes against the very reason Godzilla was created.
Last edited by Terasawa on Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
寺沢. He/him/his, etc.

User avatar
G2000
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 5463
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:34 pm

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by G2000 »

DirektorSplennic wrote:Can someone explain to me how reviving a heroic Godzilla with a nuke is disrespectful? I'm genuinely curious.

54 and Shin are clear (and very well done) depictions of the horrors of nuclear energy and why we shouldn't use it, but why is it deemed offensive for a Godzilla who is established as a hero, be revived by the very thing that makes him powerful?
Like I said I'm perfectly fine with reviving hero Godzilla with a nuke but those who don't like it do have some valid points that I can agree with. For one, the decision to use nukes is portrayed fairly casually; there's no discussion, no hand-wringing, no suggestion of alternatives. All that happens is Mark suddenly gets a bright idea and then one scene later everyone's gone along with it and the Navy's handed MONARCH a submarine and some warheads no questions asked.

Contrast that with G14 where the decision to use nukes is a clear last resort; Stenz has to get presidential authority to use them and Serizawa is vehemently opposed as a result of his family's history with Hiroshima. In KoTM though, Serizawa doesn't even bat an eye when Mark suggests breaking out the nukes. If anything he's downright supportive, and he doesn't mention Hiroshima once outside of occasionally rubbing his father's watch (which many non-fans either didn't know or forgot the significance of; fake actually thought it was supposed to have been a gift from Graham). It really undermines the character established in G2014.

And while Serizawa's sacrifice is arguably one of the best parts of KoTM, I can definitely see why the intentional parallels to the original Serizawa's sacrifice in G'54 can set some people off. The original Serizawa sacrifices himself not just to kill Godzilla, but to keep his research from being used to fuel a new arms race, whereas the new Serizawa sets off a nuke to save Godzilla and save the world. While the new scene definitely works as a way of showing how Godzilla himself as a character has evolved from being a specter of nuclear annihilation to a heroic figure saving us from ourselves, it lacks the thematic and allegorical weight the original held, and the usage of nuclear weapons in such a way in a clear homage to that scene can come off as painfully tone-deaf if looking at it from a certain angle.

Had KoTM actually treated nuclear weapons with the proper weight they deserve; having the cast argue about the potential ramifications, having them try to find alternative options until they realize there aren't any, having Serizawa be initially against it but eventually and reluctantly come around once it becomes clear that it's the only way to save Godzilla and thus the world (like the original Serizawa and his Oxygen Destroyer), I don't think the film would be getting nearly as much criticism as it currently does on this issue. But it didn't, and here we are.
Last edited by G2000 on Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
gerdzerl wrote:DONT STOP G2000 YOU SEXY BEAST

User avatar
Godzilla165
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 6078
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:37 am

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Godzilla165 »

G2000 wrote:
DirektorSplennic wrote:Can someone explain to me how reviving a heroic Godzilla with a nuke is disrespectful? I'm genuinely curious.

54 and Shin are clear (and very well done) depictions of the horrors of nuclear energy and why we shouldn't use it, but why is it deemed offensive for a Godzilla who is established as a hero, be revived by the very thing that makes him powerful?
Like I said I'm perfectly fine with reviving hero Godzilla with a nuke but those who don't like it do have some valid points that I can agree with. For one, the decision to use nukes is portrayed fairly casually; there's no discussion, no hand-wringing, no suggestion of alternatives. All that happens is Mark suddenly gets a bright idea and then one scene later everyone's gone along with it and the Navy's handed MONARCH a submarine and some warheads no questions asked.

Contrast that with G14 where the decision to use nukes is a clear last resort; Stenz has to get presidential authority to use them and Serizawa is vehemently opposed as a result of his family's history with Hiroshima. In KoTM though, Serizawa doesn't even bat an eye when Mark suggests breaking out the nukes. If anything he's downright supportive, and he doesn't mention Hiroshima once outside of occasionally rubbing his father's watch (which many non-fans either didn't know or forgot the significance of; fake actually thought it was supposed to have been a gift from Graham). It really undermines the character established in G2014.

And while Serizawa's sacrifice is arguably one of the best parts of KoTM, I can definitely see why the intentional parallels to the original Serizawa's sacrifice in G'54 can set some people off. The original Serizawa sacrifices himself not just to kill Godzilla, but to keep his research from being used to fuel a new arms race, whereas the new Serizawa sets off a nuke to save Godzilla and save the world. While the new scene definitely works as a way of showing how Godzilla himself as a character has evolved from being a specter of nuclear annihilation to a heroic figure saving us from ourselves, it lacks the thematic and allegorical weight the original held, and the usage of nuclear weapons in such a way in a clear homage to that scene can come off as painfully tone-deaf if looking at it from a certain angle.

Had KoTM actually treated nuclear weapons with the proper weight they deserve; having the cast argue about the potential ramifications, having them try to find alternative options until they realize there aren't any, having Serizawa be initially against it but eventually and reluctantly come around once it becomes clear that it's the only way to save Godzilla and thus the world (like the original Serizawa and his Oxygen Destroyer), I don't think the film would be getting nearly as much criticism as it currently does on this issue. But it didn't, and here we are.
That's a great way of putting it. I personally didn't at all mind the usage of a nuclear weapon to save this incredible incarnation of Godzilla, and it made for a cool parallel to the original. Plus, the scene itself was absolutely beautiful and wonderfully done.

However, if the film had done more to portray the weight and seriousness of utilizing a nuke, and had the characters get into a heated debate on whether or not to go through with such a plan, and both parties gave understandable reasons and points... It would have made the inevitable decision to ultimately go through with using such a horrible weapon to save their only chance of survival that more impactful and poignant. Serizawa could have had a satisfying arc from 2014 where he was firmly against nuclear weapons, do realizing that using one was, at the moment, the only path to salvation for both humanity and Godzilla.

As it stands, again, I personally have very little issue with how it was ultimately presented in the swiftly paced KotM, and we still got a moment to breathe with the film during Serizawa's sacrifice. But, I do agree that certain things could have been done/implemented to make the whole situation better.
Image

#BotM

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 14610
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

G2000 wrote:Like I said I'm perfectly fine with reviving hero Godzilla with a nuke but those who don't like it do have some valid points that I can agree with. For one, the decision to use nukes is portrayed fairly casually; there's no discussion, no hand-wringing, no suggestion of alternatives. All that happens is Mark suddenly gets a bright idea and then one scene later everyone's gone along with it and the Navy's handed MONARCH a submarine and some warheads no questions asked.

Contrast that with G14 where the decision to use nukes is a clear last resort; Stenz has to get presidential authority to use them and Serizawa is vehemently opposed as a result of his family's history with Hiroshima. In KoTM though, Serizawa doesn't even bat an eye when Mark suggests breaking out the nukes. If anything he's downright supportive, and he doesn't mention Hiroshima once outside of occasionally rubbing his father's watch (which many non-fans either didn't know or forgot the significance of; fake actually thought it was supposed to have been a gift from Graham). It really undermines the character established in G2014.
I think what they tried to do, was make it so that Serizawa was confronting the nukes/his past, but they failed utterly. If we ignore Godzilla for a second, and the franchise as a whole, yeah you're right of it not making much sense in the context of G'14, or even Serizawa's backstory in Awakening. I know I'm beating a dead Serizawa, but that's why the whole fortune cookie thing doesn't work, as it's bizarre humor that detracts from the sense of emotional weight in the scene. But wow, I didn't realize how contradictory KOTM is with it's own prequel.

I know I'm reiterating some stuff again, but the whole nuke sequence is also why I take issue with the films supposed environmental issue. The film wants to critique pollution, and the damage that humans have done to the earth. A lot of environmental damage, is a result of desperation of poor people (people cutting down rain forests to make farm land, overusing the land...etc...) and haphazard decisions that seem good in the moment, but have disastrous repercussions. While I do not want to get into a debate with anyone over the usefulness or economic benefits of shale mining/fracking, in the early to mid 2010's there was a gigantic shale boom. The science/method behind it, had a lot of risks, but people did it anyone, and there are recorded instances of Fracking damaging the environment. Additionally, many of these Shale companies, and towns newly based on the boom, are now defunct. The same mentality is what leads to Godzilla's revival; desperation and haphazard decisions. For the film to embrace the very same mentality it wants to be criticizing, is ridiculous.

And yeah, it's still weird how most of the film is talking about how humans and environmental damage are bad, only for the big solution to be blowing up an underwater nuclear weapon, destroying what was probably a pristine and unique biome. It's not that the film needs to have some large debate, but there's little acknowledgement or regret to any of this.

Another thing, is that KOTM wants to be an environmental film, but places the onus of responsibility outside of people. It's not humanities goal or responsibility to take care of the earth, it's the literal nature gods sleeping in the earth. A good example, is while in Godzilla vs. Hedorah, while of course Godzilla ultimately defeats Hedorah, the humans throughout the film debate the problem and play a pivitol role in the climax. After defeating Hedorah, Godzilla angrily snarls towards the people, perhaps warning them not to keep fucking up, and it proceeds to then warn the viewers that there might be another Hedorah. The implication is that although Godzilla defeats the big bad, it's up to humanity to change their ways. KOTM does not do this at all, and even has at least according to the ending montage where everything is or should be just peachy, despite humanity not learning anything, or having anyone try to change their ways.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

BlankAccount
Sazer
Posts: 12648
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:49 pm

Re: Godzilla King of the Monsters General Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by BlankAccount »

Terasawa wrote:It has nothing to do with Godzilla’s alignment with humanity and everything to do with the fact that a nuke is detonated for the benefit of mankind. That goes against the very reason Godzilla was created.
Does it though? Japan uses nuclear reactors, showing that there is peaceful uses for nuclear power and that it is neither good or bad in of itself but how it's used. Yes a nuclear weapon was used in KOTM but it was used less like a weapon and more like fuel for the living weapon (Godzilla) that would help save us all.

Post Reply