How would Godzilla 2014 have done if it was more like Shin Godzilla?

[Pacfanweb]

This is something that came to mind after some thinking and re-watching of both films. How would G-2014 have done (in public opinion, box office, critically, etc.) if it was like Shin Godzilla?

Not really possible for the general public to have liked a Godzilla movie much more than they already did.

Over $500 million is a great success for a movie of this type. Consider that Legendary had to overcome: I know we all love them, but the Toho movies aren't typically very good movies. Not even remotely. But they have monsters in them, and that's why we watch.
Then you throw in 98. That gave "real" Godzilla movies a bad name.

And it STILL went over the half-billion mark. That is STRONG for what essentially was a kid's cheesy monster movie franchise. (yeah, I know it didn't start that way, but that's how it is viewed by most)

Making it more like one of the Japanese films would have hurt more than it helped, IMO. Shin was okay....I am still having a problem with how stupid the first form of Shin looked, but overall, it was...okay. Nowhere near as good or realistic (as much as a giant monster movie can be, anyway) as 2014. Still suffered from the same old thing Toho movies always do...massive plot holes and needing some serious leaps of faith to make it work.

But it was enjoyable, because it was Godzilla. You watch it not expecting the same level of movie you expect from Legendary because quite frankly, Toho isn't known for making more "serious" movies, and not as much is expected. And it's all about expectations.

IMO, 2014 did about as well as it could have, and was a great launching point for a franchise or "universe", if Legendary does it right from here on.

[KingKaiju]

At the slightest hint at putting the US in any slight negative light, we probably would've gotten a bunch of angry morons going, "don't like America?! Well get out!!! Why's Japan complaining?! They attacked us! They deserved that bomb."

[TheSecondComing]

I think it would've done much worse. American audiences are largely allergic to films that even remotely resemble something intellectual.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

Yeah but if trailers framed it like they did G14 I still think it would have done similar. A vast majority of G14's domestic revenue was from opening day anyway. I could still see it doing similar numbers at least domestically. Advertising drove G14 BO far more than the quality of the film. Even without the competition I doubt G14 could have done much better than it did.

[BooLugosi]

I think it would've done much worse. American audiences are largely allergic to films that even remotely resemble something intellectual.

The general audience prefers being spoon fed garbage, usually. You can look at the average American family's DVD/BluRay shelf and see that. They don't like media that challenges them to think. It's the same problem that plagues music now.

Added in 5 minutes 54 seconds:

Nowhere near as good or realistic

Shin Gojira's characters were way more realistic than G14's. G14's characters had about as much personality as a rock. I'm sorry but I was able to suspend my disbelief WAY more for Shin Gojira. G14 was just a typical American popcorn flick.

Added in 2 minutes 44 seconds:

but the Toho movies aren't typically very good movies. Not even remotely.

Neither was G14. G14 was as just as "meh" as the later Heisei entries.

[Pacfanweb]

Everyone has an opinion, and that's fine, but I don't see how Shin's characters were more "realistic" than 2014's.

That's just ridiculous, honestly. Fun to watch, enjoyed it, etc...but "believable"? Come on, now.

You can poke massive holes in nearly every one of the characters in Shin and their roles, not to mention the entire movie plot itself.
It's not even remotely close to being as cohesive as 2014. Yes, I agree that no "giant monster movie" wouldn't require SOME leap of faith on the behalf of the audience because let's be honest: They are as real as vampires and zombies.

But "realistic characters"? What characters in 2014 weren't "realistic"? I'd say the worst thing was Ford's uncanny 'luck' of being everywhere the monsters were, but other than that....all the military guys were believable (far more than any Toho film ever), Serizawa and his asst. were more "believable" than any of the scientist types in Shin, and so on.

It's not even close. Toho simply makes different types of films than Legendary was going for. Toho KNOWS that what they are doing has a "cartoonish" aspect. That's how such ridiculous things as "how much of the coagulant they were able to manufacture in practically no time" and "one UN agent with Presidential aspirations manages to convince the US not to nuke Shin", or the laughable fact that any other country would have even been thinking about nuking a monster that was presently in another country in the first place.
And there's nothing wrong with that...I'm not criticizing it, it just "is what it is"...and I still liked it.

I mean, tell me you simply liked it better. You prefer the classic type of Godzilla. I can get that. I enjoyed Shin myself. But let's not go overboard with justifying one over the other.

Added in 1 minute 34 seconds:

At the slightest hint at putting the US in any slight negative light, we probably would've gotten a bunch of angry morons going, "don't like America?! Well get out!!! Why's Japan complaining?! They attacked us! They deserved that bomb."

This is really a topic for another thread, in which you can start and I will gladly participate with facts, but the facts are....it's not about whether the Japanese "deserved" the bomb. The FACT is, the bombs ended the war and actually saved lives on both sides. There is no intelligent argument to be made to the contrary.
Less Japanese died and far less Allied lives were lost because of those bombs.

[Mr. Xeno]

Shin's characters are more believable because they actually have emotions and take actions that make sense based on the plot. In G'14, Ford never shows any emotion when his father dies, wife and child are endangered, or when he's reunited with the latter, or arguing with the former, etc. All the characters in Shin are the exact opposite.

Also, it explained exactly why the US decided to nuke Godzilla, and it's hardly unrealistic, but that also just might be me being cynical.

[Pacfanweb]

Shin's characters are more believable because they actually have emotions and take actions that make sense based on the plot. In G'14, Ford never shows any emotion when his father dies, wife and child are endangered, or when he's reunited with the latter, or arguing with the former, etc. All the characters in Shin are the exact opposite.

Also, it explained exactly why the US decided to nuke Godzilla, and it's hardly unrealistic, but that also just might be me being cynical.

Okay, so one character you point out as "not having emotion". Okay...that was your take, and that's fine. I don't even totally disagree.

But that's ONE character. You can't say that about any of the rest. So I don't think your point is valid, and that's just my opinion.

All the characters are the exact opposite in Shin? Maybe...maybe not. Point is, they aren't believable because what they doing is so unrealistic. Forget we're talking about a monster movie for a second, which isn't believable in the first place: One UN agent is going to have sway and influence on the United States to stop them from bombing if they were even close to deciding to? Sorry, nope. Not a chance in hell. That far and away is more unbelievable than Ford's emotions.
Nevermind the whole Japanese government being taken out at once, etc. The mere thought that they'd have all been in one place and in that danger in the first place is laughable.

Again....tell me you (and I mean a collective "you", not necessarily you specifically) simply "just liked Shin better". That's cool. Different strokes for different folks.
I just can't buy into the "more believable characters when there was just so much ridiculousness in Shin's characters when compared to 2014's.

[BlankAccount]

I think it would've done much worse. American audiences are largely allergic to films that even remotely resemble something intellectual.

Or stylized these days. I really hate this "grounded/realistic" trend and can't wait for it to go away. Movies need more fun and colors, hell they can have that while still being serious. Shin was a pretty serious movie and I took it seriously, it was easy to but I also had a lot of fun and it was very pretty (and horrific!) scene when Tokyo was being burned and sliced by Godzilla's ray.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's not bad for movie to feel cinematic when dealing with serious subject matters, if anything it helps people pay attention to it, the story can be sad but the action and lines can still be entertaining.

I'm not good with words.

[Gerdzerl]

Honestly, I'm hoping the whole "grounded / realistic" thing in the Legendary series is abandoned in favor of something more MCU-esque. Much more creative freedom that way.

[Mr. Xeno]

But that's ONE character. You can't say that about any of the rest. So I don't think your point is valid, and that's just my opinion.

All the characters are the exact opposite in Shin? Maybe...maybe not. Point is, they aren't believable because what they doing is so unrealistic. Forget we're talking about a monster movie for a second, which isn't believable in the first place: One UN agent is going to have sway and influence on the United States to stop them from bombing if they were even close to deciding to? Sorry, nope. Not a chance in hell. That far and away is more unbelievable than Ford's emotions.
Nevermind the whole Japanese government being taken out at once, etc. The mere thought that they'd have all been in one place and in that danger in the first place is laughable.

Again....tell me you (and I mean a collective "you", not necessarily you specifically) simply "just liked Shin better". That's cool. Different strokes for different folks.
I just can't buy into the "more believable characters when there was just so much ridiculousness in Shin's characters when compared to 2014's.

I only listed ONE character because I didn't feel like writing ANOTHER essay on how terrible G'14 was. Not everyone on the Internet responds with novellas of text, ya know. But since I feel like elaborating, it was far more than just one character in G'14. Serizawa and his assistant did nothing but gape open-mouthed and babble on about the nature of man, something no character in Shin does. Elle doesn't get anything at all to go off of, as she's just the generic wife character. The only exception is Cranston. Every other character is flat and boring, or ridiculously over the top, and ALL are completely useless and pointless to the movie in every way, other than Serizawa being the ham-fisted moral center we're supposed to identify with.

Shin bypasses this with it's structure, but the acting is all far more solid, and serves the movie's tone and style better than anyone's in G'14 did.

And no, one UN agent did not dissuade the US from trying to bomb Godzilla. She TRIED, hence why her career got put in jeopardy, but didn't succeed, hence why our main group of characters had to race to successfully create and produce the coagulant to freeze Godzilla. They weren't just doing it to stop Godzilla himself, but to stop the US.

And the whole Japanese government wasn't taken out, it just the officials that were all meeting together to discuss the national crisis of Godzilla (unless you think gov't officials actually meeting to discuss serious topics in ridiculous).

That said, some things are over the top in Shin, yes, but you have to realize that was the movie's entire tone and point. It was juxtaposing an impossible-but-deadly scenario into the real world, and the serious consequences of it as a result. G'14's tone and point, on the other hand, was, "We're a super serious American reboot!" so the two movies aren't innately an apples-to-apples comparison to begin with. But even when taking that into account, as I stated before, the characters in Shin are still better than G'14. Shin's characters actually care about what's going on and take actions that make sense within the plot. G'14's do not.

[BooLugosi]

But that's ONE character. You can't say that about any of the rest. So I don't think your point is valid, and that's just my opinion.

All the characters are the exact opposite in Shin? Maybe...maybe not. Point is, they aren't believable because what they doing is so unrealistic. Forget we're talking about a monster movie for a second, which isn't believable in the first place: One UN agent is going to have sway and influence on the United States to stop them from bombing if they were even close to deciding to? Sorry, nope. Not a chance in hell. That far and away is more unbelievable than Ford's emotions.
Nevermind the whole Japanese government being taken out at once, etc. The mere thought that they'd have all been in one place and in that danger in the first place is laughable.

Again....tell me you (and I mean a collective "you", not necessarily you specifically) simply "just liked Shin better". That's cool. Different strokes for different folks.
I just can't buy into the "more believable characters when there was just so much ridiculousness in Shin's characters when compared to 2014's.

I only listed ONE character because I didn't feel like writing ANOTHER essay on how terrible G'14 was. Not everyone on the Internet responds with novellas of text, ya know. But since I feel like elaborating, it was far more than just one character in G'14. Serizawa and his assistant did nothing but gape open-mouthed and babble on about the nature of man, something no character in Shin does. Elle doesn't get anything at all to go off of, as she's just the generic wife character. The only exception is Cranston. Every other character is flat and boring, or ridiculously over the top, and ALL are completely useless and pointless to the movie in every way, other than Serizawa being the ham-fisted moral center we're supposed to identify with.

Shin bypasses this with it's structure, but the acting is all far more solid, and serves the movie's tone and style better than anyone's in G'14 did.

And no, one UN agent did not dissuade the US from trying to bomb Godzilla. She TRIED, hence why her career got put in jeopardy, but didn't succeed, hence why our main group of characters had to race to successfully create and produce the coagulant to freeze Godzilla. They weren't just doing it to stop Godzilla himself, but to stop the US.

And the whole Japanese government wasn't taken out, it just the officials that were all meeting together to discuss the national crisis of Godzilla (unless you think gov't officials actually meeting to discuss serious topics in ridiculous).

That said, some things are over the top in Shin, yes, but you have to realize that was the movie's entire tone and point. It was juxtaposing an impossible-but-deadly scenario into the real world, and the serious consequences of it as a result. G'14's tone and point, on the other hand, was, "We're a super serious American reboot!" so the two movies aren't innately an apples-to-apples comparison to begin with. But even when taking that into account, as I stated before, the characters in Shin are still better than G'14. Shin's characters actually care about what's going on and take actions that make sense within the plot. G'14's do not.

THANK YOU! I couldn't have said it better.

Added in 11 minutes 23 seconds:

I think it would've done much worse. American audiences are largely allergic to films that even remotely resemble something intellectual.

Or stylized these days. I really hate this "grounded/realistic" trend and can't wait for it to go away. Movies need more fun and colors, hell they can have that while still being serious. Shin was a pretty serious movie and I took it seriously, it was easy to but I also had a lot of fun and it was very pretty (and horrific!) scene when Tokyo was being burned and sliced by Godzilla's ray.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's not bad for movie to feel cinematic when dealing with serious subject matters, if anything it helps people pay attention to it, the story can be sad but the action and lines can still be entertaining.

I'm not good with words.

I think it would've done much worse. American audiences are largely allergic to films that even remotely resemble something intellectual.

Or stylized these days. I really hate this "grounded/realistic" trend and can't wait for it to go away. Movies need more fun and colors, hell they can have that while still being serious. Shin was a pretty serious movie and I took it seriously, it was easy to but I also had a lot of fun and it was very pretty (and horrific!) scene when Tokyo was being burned and sliced by Godzilla's ray.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's not bad for movie to feel cinematic when dealing with serious subject matters, if anything it helps people pay attention to it, the story can be sad but the action and lines can still be entertaining.

I'm not good with words.

But don't you love drab, boring color schemes and characters that are as exciting as watching paint dry because "WERE SO DURK AND EDGY AND REELISTIK GUIZE!!!" In all seriousness though, I think movies should stop trying to be The Dark Knight but at the same time trying to "play it safe." I think that is the problem. They want to make things dark and foreboding but don't wanna risk loosing the General Audience so they just end up making drab, boring films. The Legendary series just needs to try to be fun and entertaining(With good writing.) instead of trying to be dark but safe at the same time.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

Well Skull Island already seems to be heading into a more fun and colorful direction. I feel that bodes well for the future direction of this kaiju cinematic universe.

[Pacfanweb]

Honestly, I'm hoping the whole "grounded / realistic" thing in the Legendary series is abandoned in favor of something more MCU-esque. Much more creative freedom that way.

Agree with this.

They got Godzilla off the ground with a more serious tone. Now they move in the direction you mention here starting with Kong. That'd be a great move, IMO.

[Inferno Rodan]

Personally I find the fact that there are people bashing G'14 for having bland and flat characters while simultaneously praising Shin for having ones with emotion utterly hilarious. The only character that had anything resembling an actual personality in Shin was the MC. And even then it was, like, 3 scenes.

To answer the question of the topic, it probably would have done terribly. And fans would have despised it.

[Mr_Goji_and_Watch]

And fans would have despised it.

It makes sense. Different expectations for movies from different cultures and countries. It really depends. If Godzilla was drastically changed in G14 with abilities that add on to Godzilla (like in Shin) and it was well made (like Shin) then there probably wouldn't be too much hate.

[KingKaiju]

At the slightest hint at putting the US in any slight negative light, we probably would've gotten a bunch of angry morons going, "don't like America?! Well get out!!! Why's Japan complaining?! They attacked us! They deserved that bomb."

This is really a topic for another thread, in which you can start and I will gladly participate with facts, but the facts are....it's not about whether the Japanese "deserved" the bomb. The FACT is, the bombs ended the war and actually saved lives on both sides. There is no intelligent argument to be made to the contrary.
Less Japanese died and far less Allied lives were lost because of those bombs.

Yeeeeeeah, that wasn't the point, nor was I arguing against any of that. My point is that most americans, in general, are pretty fuckin stupid, who, instead of sitting back and trying to understand the significance of certain things (such as why Japan would be completely against getting another nuked dropped on them), they just simply react. Hence why we have who we have as the President elect. But, as you said, it's a post for another thread. I'm just pointing something out that seems to come up more often than not.

[Ōei]

This is something that came to mind after some thinking and re-watching of both films. How would G-2014 have done (in public opinion, box office, critically, etc.) if it was like Shin Godzilla?

Not really possible for the general public to have liked a Godzilla movie much more than they already did.

Over $500 million is a great success for a movie of this type. Consider that Legendary had to overcome: I know we all love them, but the Toho movies aren't typically very good movies. Not even remotely. But they have monsters in them, and that's why we watch.
Then you throw in 98. That gave "real" Godzilla movies a bad name.

And it STILL went over the half-billion mark. That is STRONG for what essentially was a kid's cheesy monster movie franchise. (yeah, I know it didn't start that way, but that's how it is viewed by most)

Making it more like one of the Japanese films would have hurt more than it helped, IMO. Shin was okay....I am still having a problem with how stupid the first form of Shin looked, but overall, it was...okay. Nowhere near as good or realistic (as much as a giant monster movie can be, anyway) as 2014. Still suffered from the same old thing Toho movies always do...massive plot holes and needing some serious leaps of faith to make it work.

But it was enjoyable, because it was Godzilla. You watch it not expecting the same level of movie you expect from Legendary because quite frankly, Toho isn't known for making more "serious" movies, and not as much is expected. And it's all about expectations.

IMO, 2014 did about as well as it could have, and was a great launching point for a franchise or "universe", if Legendary does it right from here on.

I find this interesting, I would think that a Godzilla movie, if truly great and well marketed, would be able to gross $1 billion. It's definitely a franchise that shouldn't have much problem catching on. Don't get me wrong, $500 million isn't bad for a gross, but I would think that it could be more successful than just a half billion.

[Pacfanweb]

This is something that came to mind after some thinking and re-watching of both films. How would G-2014 have done (in public opinion, box office, critically, etc.) if it was like Shin Godzilla?

Not really possible for the general public to have liked a Godzilla movie much more than they already did.

Over $500 million is a great success for a movie of this type. Consider that Legendary had to overcome: I know we all love them, but the Toho movies aren't typically very good movies. Not even remotely. But they have monsters in them, and that's why we watch.
Then you throw in 98. That gave "real" Godzilla movies a bad name.

And it STILL went over the half-billion mark. That is STRONG for what essentially was a kid's cheesy monster movie franchise. (yeah, I know it didn't start that way, but that's how it is viewed by most)

Making it more like one of the Japanese films would have hurt more than it helped, IMO. Shin was okay....I am still having a problem with how stupid the first form of Shin looked, but overall, it was...okay. Nowhere near as good or realistic (as much as a giant monster movie can be, anyway) as 2014. Still suffered from the same old thing Toho movies always do...massive plot holes and needing some serious leaps of faith to make it work.

But it was enjoyable, because it was Godzilla. You watch it not expecting the same level of movie you expect from Legendary because quite frankly, Toho isn't known for making more "serious" movies, and not as much is expected. And it's all about expectations.

IMO, 2014 did about as well as it could have, and was a great launching point for a franchise or "universe", if Legendary does it right from here on.

I find this interesting, I would think that a Godzilla movie, if truly great and well marketed, would be able to gross $1 billion. It's definitely a franchise that shouldn't have much problem catching on. Don't get me wrong, $500 million isn't bad for a gross, but I would think that it could be more successful than just a half billion.

Well, I wish that were the case, but I just don't see a billion dollar market for Godzilla. I think half a billion was just killing it for this type of movie. Basically equal to the last Kong movie, which had a lot more fanfare and publicity, in addition to being an "American" creation to begin with.

So I'd think that's just about the high water mark for monster movies in general. The original Transformers only did about 150-ish million more.
Maybe the franchise can be grown to higher grosses.

I don't care in general...just want them to do well so they'll keep making more and more of them.

[Mechagigan]

A lot of pessimism in this thread.

Keep in mind, Shin was advertised pretty much exactly how any blockbuster summer flick would be; huge flashy events, loads of merchandise, corporate tie-ins, you name it. It's an artsy movie disguised as another Hollywood hit. Considering that, its pretty realistic to imagine that a similar movie could pull off the same trick with the same techniques.

Also, the whole "Murica" thing hasn't been an actual part of our culture for a very long time. If anything, most of us have disdain for he country.