Human Level Antagonists in Godzilla 2?

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

No but its is still a staple of the genre for the most part.Only a small handful of kaiju films lacked human level antagonists. As early as The Mysterians and as recent as Final Wars. There almost always something going on other than the kaiju stuff. Which is part of what I feel makes those films fun. Even The Thing had those two shady businessmen and the original Mothra had Mr Nelson. Anything to pep up the non kaiju scenes. I won't be pissed if it don't happen but they better write better characters then or at least add some lite comedy to lighten up the proceedings. At least do something with Monarch, they were easily the most interesting concept in the film and it was a shame more was not done with them.

[Vakanai]

Also... "a trap using electricity"? I think you're confusing this with the Showa series. Why don't they try dropping an anvil on the MUTOs next? MEEP MEEP

Actually, dropping an anvil on them isn't that far out as an anti-kaiju weapon. There's this theoretical/proposed weapon project for the military that's basically just a satellite with heavy rails. The satellite drops a rail with guided precision. You drop something big enough from orbit and you get the destructive kinetic energy of a nuke or greater with none of the radioactive fall out. It's not technically an anvil, but it's the same basic principle. Considering the events of the film, I could easily see them green-lighting a project like that right away. I doubt the filmmakers will consider it, but it'd be a good real world/grounded response to the kaiju threat.

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Maybe a radicalised splinter group of Monarch could be a interesting enemy for the human main characters.

[LSD Jellyfish]

If it's the cliche,"Godzilla is a rogue threat and must be stopped" then absolutely no. Otherwise I'm not particularly against the idea but Id rather have alien antagonists then.

[Kaijugriffey]

The human interaction with the Kaiju is actually a potential weak point for the world building that Legendary did. By going with the modern dark ultra realistic almost journalistic approach and real world military responses they have made it much more jarring for when they will have to make a sharp turn into crazier fantasy elements of the franchise in order to actually give the humans something to do besides get stepped on. Looking at Godzilla 2014 can anyone see a way to shoehorn in a MechaGodzilla? Or an Alien Invasion? Even a Maser Tank feels odd as it would stand out as a bolted together Hollywood prop next to the much more real feeling actual military hardware. One of the major differences betwen Pacific Rim and Godzilla. Pacific Rim Embraced the weird and wonderful SciFi Fantasy from the first frames. Whereas Godzilla sought to give us a glimpse of what these things would look like in our world.

[KaijuArcade]

Do I have any interest in human level antagonists in Godzilla 2? No. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. No. I want them dedicating as much time as they can to kaiju level antagonists.

"Human level antagonists." Did you miss the beginning of the movie where Goji is hit with an atomic bomb and not killed, let alone scarred or maimed? Or Goji just shaking it off after getting strafed in the face and gut repeatedly by missiles and tank artillery during the bridge fight? Where are these "human level antagonists" coming from exactly? Unless you are willing to really grasp at straws and totally 100% believe what that deluded commander said about the '54 bomb being "just a firecracker" or they go for an almost purely science fiction, future plot.

What is with the obsessive assertion some here have that "post humanism = boring!" Yeah, let's get Kelsey Grammar to be in command of the "kaiju hunters" too. Probable response: "Ohhhhh, there you go, acting like just because I want more human involvement that means you're calling me a Michael Bay fanboy!" No, I'm not saying anyone is a Michael Bay fanboy just my way of saying, no thanks because I like my robots and sci-fi creatures being in charge for a change instead of humans which is how it should be, especially in a Godzilla movie. I like that Gareth and Legendary retained the base spirit of '54 and bucked the Hollywood trend of "in the end, human characters must ultimately feel empowered at all costs in the face of an alien/monstrous threat no matter what" because that is one of the American film industry's most tired, pandering and worn out tropes.

In many a Godzilla movie the main characters usually have a human or alien threat to give them something to do in the film, the Red Bamboo, the Kilaaks, the Selgina assassins, the Saradian agent etc.

No, why would they do that? They need to dedicate the budget to Goji and the other kaiju they bought the rights to, why on earth would they want to waste a huge chunk of that money and bother to come up with extra plot contrivances like this? This isn't a TOHO movie from the 1960s where they just can craft some additional sets or costumes. What you just described is your own personal fantasy and is not going to happen in the sequel. Again, they're not going to waste money on additional plot and major SPFX elements which need to be allocated to Godzilla and the other monsters. Who knows, maybe they'll do something like that in the future if the plot and budget call for it or maybe with another director and screenwriter but I think if you're expecting, let alone desperately wanting elements like those in the next two movies, then you're probably going to continue to be disappointed. Unless something drastically changes in the tone they're going for, they aren't going to do a modernized version of the "Nick Adams and his high tech military/astronaut buddies battle bad guys and assassins side story" type approach on these. Not saying I don't like sub plots like those, they can be fun, but again I just don't see it happening for the aforementioned reasons.

Seriously though, set it a bit farther in the future, make it more bleak and show me how humans are dealing with the reality of having to survive in a post-kaiju dominated world while Goji, Mothra, Rodan and Ghidorah go at it. Maybe have them temporarily restrained to a Monster Island style settings but humans and tech somehow becoming viable rivals? No. Just no. "Bleehhhhhh! Post humanisn, bleehhhhh!" Post humanism is one of the core themes that the series is based on, deal with it. Did some of you folks miss out on what series you signed up for?

Or actually have Goji or one of the others hit point blank with a nuke and show the horrified reaction of onlookers as the monster rises unscathed. Give me something like that.

[Noble Saber]

Yeah, let's get Kelsey Grammar to be in command of the "kaiju hunters" too.

Sure. I'd be down with that.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

I'd be down with that too. Though he was probably being sarcastic. Hey I wholely agree with Arcade's last comment. I would loved to have seen something like that in G14. But it seems like Gareth and Co were trying their best to refrain from imagery like that for some reason. Thats the kinda shit I wanted from G14 and didn't really get. The people at the end should have been looking on in horror and stunned silence as Godzilla rose from the debris not cheering him on like some kind of super hero.

Sorry if this is getting off topic a bit.

[g2vd]

"Bleehhhhhh! Post humanisn, bleehhhhh!" Post humanism is one of the core themes that the series is based on, deal with it. Did some of you folks miss out on what series you signed up for?

Or actually have Goji or one of the others hit point blank with a nuke and show the horrified reaction of onlookers as the monster rises unscathed. Give me something like that.

Post Humanism is a view that people have put on the movie not the view the filmmakers had. many people can have many different views on something but that doesn't mean that is the view that Gareth and Co had, never not once was there a indication that it was supposed to be post humanistic never. the film was not made to be post humanistic it is a view people have put on it, the film can fit that view but it was never intended to be like that.

[KaijuArcade]

I'd be down with that too. Though he was probably being sarcastic.

Yes, I was definitely being sarcastic there. But hey, why not? Let David Allen Pierce (Niles) be his sidekick too. :p

Hey I wholely agree with Arcade's last comment. I would loved to have seen something like that in G14. But it seems like Gareth and Co were trying their best to refrain from imagery like that for some reason.

I didn't like the cheering at first either but on the other hand when you think about it, it feels like a nice counterpoint to the stupid cheering of the crowd on the brooklyn bridge at the end of G98 when poor, wimpy Gino was effortlessly killed by missiles. I think that scene just reflects how happy everyone was that the *real* Godzilla was back. Plus as has been discussed before, that would be the imperfect response a lot of people would have in real life. An analogy I used in another discussion: You'd be relieved too if a giant grizzly bear just rescued you from a rabid cougar by killing it because the cougar got in the way of its cubs but eventually you'd wisen up and run away before the grizzly bear got you too because evenatually it'd dawn on you that the bear wasn't intentionally "protecting" you, it was merely protecting its own interests. But as I said in another thread, I have a strong feeling Gareth is going to turn the crowd's cheering on its ear in the next movie as he himself has said he enjoys manipulating the audience's expectations and reactions. Also, I thought Patrick made a great point in his one year retrospective: What if they had just let the nuke go off over San Francisco in a similar way to the nuke going off in Gojira '84/85 but then the radiation simply wakes Goji up. That would have been sweet, maybe they can do something like that in the next movie.

"Bleehhhhhh! Post humanisn, bleehhhhh!" Post humanism is one of the core themes that the series is based on, deal with it. Did some of you folks miss out on what series you signed up for?

Post Humanism is a view that people have put on the movie not the view the filmmakers had. many people can have many different views on something but that doesn't mean that is the view that Gareth and Co had, never not once was there a indication that it was supposed to be post humanistic never. the film was not made to be post humanistic it is a view people have put on it, the film can fit that view but it was never intended to be like that.

Seriously? No, it's not some theme people came up with their own and simply "projected onto the movie" on their own, Post humanism is the theme simply as a result of the plot, tone and structure of the movie and by Gareth's own words and intention on how he approached humanity's position in the movie as he has stated in countless interviews. Hello? I just love how some people can just ignore how a movie is made or the countless things a director and screenwriter will say in interviews just to push their own personal preferences. Hey, if a person doesn't like the movie or if they feel the movie doesn't promote that theme I guess you can feel free to think that, but that goes against both the movie's content and the repeatedlly stated intentions of the filmmakers. Again, post humanism and the marginalization of humanity by powers far greater than their own is a core, recurring theme since the very first film and that's probably not changing any time soon.

[toho_guy01]

I think it could work but, they would need it to be justified so that we don't have him disliking Godzilla just to be a arsehole.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

Well Godzilla did just help lay waste to a good portion of San Francisco. I'd say that's reason enough to hate him. Still liking the idea of a Doomsday/Satanic cult believing Ghidorah is the Devil come to bring about the Apocalypse. A rogue military group wanting to either harness the power of monsters or create one of their own is a probable way to go as well.

[g2vd]

"Bleehhhhhh! Post humanisn, bleehhhhh!" Post humanism is one of the core themes that the series is based on, deal with it. Did some of you folks miss out on what series you signed up for?

Post Humanism is a view that people have put on the movie not the view the filmmakers had. many people can have many different views on something but that doesn't mean that is the view that Gareth and Co had, never not once was there a indication that it was supposed to be post humanistic never. the film was not made to be post humanistic it is a view people have put on it, the film can fit that view but it was never intended to be like that.

Seriously? No, it's not some theme people came up with their own and simply "projected onto the movie" on their own, Post humanism is the theme simply as a result of the plot, tone and structure of the movie and by Gareth's own words and intention on how he approached humanity's position in the movie as he has stated in countless interviews. Hello? I just love how some people can just ignore how a movie is made or the countless things a director and screenwriter will say in interviews just to push their own personal preferences. Hey, if a person doesn't like the movie or if they feel the movie doesn't promote that theme I guess you can feel free to think that, but that goes against both the movie's content and the repeatedlly stated intentions of the filmmakers. Again, post humanism and the marginalization of humanity by powers far greater than their own is a core, recurring theme since the very first film and that's probably not changing any time soon.

Give Me, Give me one interview where he directly said the movie was going for a Post Humanism theme, give me one I want to see it show me.

[Giga Kaiju]

If done right, I wouldn't mind seeing one (some) that isn't the usual militarist-like guy that takes everything as threat, but a guy that hinders yet moves the plot slightly while the monsters and MC's do their thing.