One Year Later

[eabaker]

That might be telling, though, mightn't it? I mean, this is a message board for people to talk about movies that are in some cases decades old, that we all by and large like. It exists because we continue having things to say about these movies. We all spend a lot of time talking about the things we like about Gojira, Mothra vs. Godzilla, Godzilla vs. Biollante etc. So, if a large portion of the fandom is just moving on from G'14, does that suggest that it lacks some resonance that other entries possess.

Couldn't you make that argument though with every "big" Godzilla movie for the last 20 years?

For example, in the 90's, Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, Mechagodzilla, and Destroyah, were all held in very high regard. Now views on them are far more mixed.

When GMK came out, it was literally thought to be one of the best Godzilla movies ever made, and on par with Gamera 3. Now, while it's regarded as the best of the Millennium series, there's A LOT more dissent about it. (Though I think that owes a great deal to delayed outrage over Toho's interference with the Guardian Monsters).

Really, to my knowledge, the only Godzilla movie of the past 30 years that's risen in esteem over time (and rightfully so) is Biollante.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's still kinda early to say what G '14's legacy will be, and that if history's any indication, cementing a place in the upper echelon of Godzilla film's will be an uphill battle (for any new film).

Looking at the examples of movies that the fandom loved at the time, I'd point out that the people who loved them had a lot to say about them. Within a year and change of their release, we had not just moved on.

To continue strolling down the middle of the road, though (or swerving from side to side, perhaps), I'll also add that it doesn't really seem like the people who like the movie really have all just moved on. There are still some fans talking about what they liked about it, and parsing it for meaning.

[godzillalives88]

Looking at the examples of movies that the fandom loved at the time, I'd point out that the people who loved them had a lot to say about them. Within a year and change of their release, we had not just moved on.

That may be true, but I also think we live in an era where we generally blow through media a lot more quickly. For example, this year when Age of Ultron was coming out, I felt like there was a lot more discussion about the upcoming Civil War. Similarly, 2 months into Godzilla's release there was already a lot of talk about Godzilla 2 because of the Comic-Con announcement (then later the Toho film). I think in the old days (say 10-20 years ago), people would linger on something a lot longer before jumping onto the next thing (in part because they didn't know when it would be).

Sorry to get off topic, but I do enjoy these in depth conversations .

[Mechagigan]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's still kinda early to say what G '14's legacy will be, and that if history's any indication, cementing a place in the upper echelon of Godzilla film's will always be an uphill battle (for any new film).

Exactly. As the title says, it's only been about a year. Obviously, we have yet to see the more interesting opinons, such as those coming from younger fans or people introduced to the entire series by this movie.

Also, I find that in many fandoms, there's always a bit of backlash a while after something new comes out. I'm not saying that people who dislike this movie are disliking simply because it's popular, or anything stupid like that (even I find more than a few things wrong with the film), but instead that it isn't a huge shock if the general consensus changes from wildly positive to somewhat or understandably negative. People have had time to cool off and look at the movie from a less excited viewpoint, and doing so can often make the movie's issues way more upfront.

[Vakanai]

Also, I find that in many fandoms, there's always a bit of backlash a while after something new comes out.

Like Batman comic book fans and The Dark Knight (there are circles where it's cool to hate on that film). If something is popular, but isn't exactly like the old stuff, or if old fans have earlier versions they prefer, they will want to backlash after a while.

[Mechagigan]

Also, I find that in many fandoms, there's always a bit of backlash a while after something new comes out.

Like Batman comic book fans and The Dark Knight (there are circles where it's cool to hate on that film). If something is popular, but isn't exactly like the old stuff, or if old fans have earlier versions they prefer, they will want to backlash after a while.

Yeah, more or less. Though, I do want to add I don't mean to discredit anyone's opinions. It's just a trend I notice.

[Jomei]

Shinji Higuchi officially confirmed it as a masterpiece yesterday, so I'm not sure why this topic is even open still. :^) He's in the top 50 Godzilla fans in the world, so I think he knows.

Anyway, plenty of people liked the movie, but a lot of them really just wanted Jurassic World with Godzilla monsters. eabaker already explained the dynamic at play in movies like that (I'd like to call this phenomenon "the Avengers syndrome"), and it's precisely that reason that I liked Godzilla 2014 more and some people didn't like it so much. (There are legit critiques, but most of what I see is that it lacked the smashbangboom of a Marvel film or JW) It's an American film, and done with CGI, so it will always put some people off regardless of how it compares to the rest of the series as a film, but honestly, I don't think there's been a better Godzilla movie than 2014 since the Showa era.

[eabaker]

I don't think there's been a better Godzilla movie than 2014 since the Showa era.

I can think of several that I, personally, like and respond to more, but, yeah, if we want to talk objective standards of narrative structure and cinematic technique, one would be hard pressed to make a case for a better film having come out of the Heisei or Millennium eras.

[Variola]

Also, I find that in many fandoms, there's always a bit of backlash a while after something new comes out.

This; the same thing happened with the Heisei and Millennium series, which were slammed for their departure from their Showa predecessors.
It's human nature to view the past, and in particular our childhood, through rose tinted lenses. The cold reality of the present will always struggle to measure up to the power of nostalgia.

[Ryguy]

There are legit critiques, but most of what I see is that it lacked the smashbangboom of a Marvel film or JW

Jurassic World was more-or-less the same shit we have been seein since '93... Sure there was a cool fight at the end, but is the concept of dinosaurs killing people really that spectacular after we have seen it 4 fucking times already? The first movie is still terrific, but after a while, the concept started to become ill in the JP franchise

I fail to see how Jurassic World was at all like any Marvel film in terms of spectacle

[Jomei]

I fail to see how Jurassic World was at all like any Marvel film in terms of spectacle

That's because you seem to think the Marvel films are something more than that. I'm saying they really aren't. They're fun fluff with relatively low aspirations which they, to be fair, tend to achieve fairly well.

All I'm really saying here is that the main critique I've seen of the film from fans has been that it didn't have enough monster action. There are other more valid critiques, but from what I've observed, that's the major gripe both fans and general audiences had.

[eabaker]

I fail to see how Jurassic World was at all like any Marvel film in terms of spectacle

That's because you seem to think the Marvel films are something more than that. I'm saying they really aren't. They're fun fluff with relatively low aspirations which they, to be fair, tend to achieve fairly well.

All I'm really saying here is that the main critique I've seen of the film from fans has been that it didn't have enough monster action. There are other more valid critiques, but from what I've observed, that's the major gripe both fans and general audiences had.

I'd say lack of monster action and lack of a charismatic central lead with a clear, high-concept character arc.

[Ryguy]

I fail to see how Jurassic World was at all like any Marvel film in terms of spectacle

That's because you seem to think the Marvel films are something more than that. I'm saying they really aren't. They're fun fluff with relatively low aspirations which they, to be fair, tend to achieve fairly well.

All I'm really saying here is that the main critique I've seen of the film from fans has been that it didn't have enough monster action. There are other more valid critiques, but from what I've observed, that's the major gripe both fans and general audiences had.

No I'm not. I never stated anything to that effect. All I was saying was that much of what we saw in Jurassic World was done before, 3 times in fact. Each MCU film (not going into Marvel films out of the MCU, as I am only into the Spiderman movies) brings in new and interesting concepts for the most part, making each film unique.

I mean, Jurassic World was good, but it wasn't THAT great. I mean, the opinions for the film are a lot more positive here (where everyone is a monster fanboy) than on Youtube and the like, whereas I am extremely biased towards the Marvel movies, partially because Jurassic World just gets too much damn love.

[Noble Saber]

Each MCU film (not going into Marvel films out of the MCU, as I am only into the Spiderman movies) brings in new and interesting concepts for the most part

You may have a point with Ant-Man, but Age of Ultron was the most over-hyped piece of garbage to come out in a long time.

[Ryguy]

You may have a point with Ant-Man, but Age of Ultron was the most over-hyped piece of garbage to come out in a long time.

[Noble Saber]

You may have a point with Ant-Man, but Age of Ultron was the most over-hyped piece of garbage to come out in a long time.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln4yr ... o1_500.gif

[JVM]

Both of my viewing experiences were... corroded by outside elements. I really need another chance to see it to really get it but haven't had the interest. Half of the time I forget it came out, and the other half, I'm just unenthused about the franchise's future in general.

I have to say, the human elements of the story really didn't grab me the second time around, far less than the first time. I can't bring myself to c are about most of these characters and I still think Serizawa should've been Yamane instead. Elle Brody's more of a missed opportunity than Joe Brody and I couldn't give less of a shit about Ford.

[Jomei]

I fail to see how Jurassic World was at all like any Marvel film in terms of spectacle

That's because you seem to think the Marvel films are something more than that. I'm saying they really aren't. They're fun fluff with relatively low aspirations which they, to be fair, tend to achieve fairly well.

All I'm really saying here is that the main critique I've seen of the film from fans has been that it didn't have enough monster action. There are other more valid critiques, but from what I've observed, that's the major gripe both fans and general audiences had.

No I'm not. I never stated anything to that effect. All I was saying was that much of what we saw in Jurassic World was done before, 3 times in fact. Each MCU film (not going into Marvel films out of the MCU, as I am only into the Spiderman movies) brings in new and interesting concepts for the most part, making each film unique.

I was going to post the same laughing vid you did, but someone else got to the obvious gag there already. Anyway, you proved my point.

[Ryguy]

Because dinosaurs escaping their enclosures and killing people really is an extremely original idea...

I'm fighting a losing battle here, not because I am wrong, but because you are all extremely biased towards Jurassic Park (come on, JW wasn't THAT great...)

[eabaker]

Because dinosaurs escaping their enclosures and killing people really is an extremely original idea...

I'm fighting a losing battle here, not because I am wrong, but because you are all extremely biased towards Jurassic Park (come on, JW wasn't THAT great...)

Actually, no, Jomei and I are being pretty critical of JW. Jomei compared it to the Marvel movies in a way that was unfavorable to both sides of the equation.

Yes, each Marvel movie introduces some unique ideas (just like JW did with the creation of the I-rex and the training of the raptors), and then plugs them into pretty much the same hollow, spectacle-driven formula as the other entries, never really following through on those ideas in any meaningful way (just like JW).

[Noble Saber]

Because dinosaurs escaping their enclosures and killing people really is an extremely original idea...

I'm fighting a losing battle here, not because I am wrong, but because you are all extremely biased towards Jurassic Park (come on, JW wasn't THAT great...)

Sure seems like it when you don't use the formula for more than a decade.

I find it extremely funny you claim 'we're' all biased towards JW because 'we' like movie monsters. If we're going to make generalizations like that, then, given my status as a paleo-nerd/armchair paleontologist, I should have absolutely hated Jurassic World.

Like, if you're going to say "Jurassic World was the same shit we've seen" (even though the last JP film came out in 2001) and then go on to praise Age of Ultron for bringing something new to the table, just... lol. Talk about double standards.