Legendary Godzilla Species Discussion

[bugmolly]

the only dinosaur that I know where the female is bigger is tyrannosaurus, and the only evidence I have to go on is the fact that Sue is the largest fossil of a tyrannosaurus ever found and a female but that doesn't mean T-Rexes had sexual dimorphism and she could have just been really big.

[three]

This is completely untrue......

Mind backing that up with some proof?

actually, you're on the reverse of this one, Vatarian, at least in most cases.

the patters for sexual dimorphism described so far appear to fit the standard model, with the males larger and more extreme in their morphology

interestingly, it appears to be the reverse in Tyrannosaurus Rex.

[Noble Saber]

This is completely untrue......

Mind backing that up with some proof?

Apologies for getting a tad bit off topic, but really a more accurate answer would be: we don't know. Since all we have is fossils, it is really hard to assign a gender to a specimen, though female dinosaurs generally had larger hips than males. Looking at modern birds, it is more likely that female tyrannosaurs were larger than males instead of vice versa, but there's really no definitive conclusion as of yet.

[Jiragozira14]

This is completely untrue......

Mind backing that up with some proof?

Apologies for getting a tad bit off topic, but really a more accurate answer would be: we don't know. Since all we have is fossils, it is really hard to assign a gender to a specimen, though female dinosaurs generally had larger hips than males. Looking at modern birds, it is more likely that female tyrannosaurs were larger than males instead of vice versa, but there's really no definitive conclusion as of yet.

Yeah, especially considering preservation bias, it's a undefinitively answered question for now. Samson is about 40 feet long and 15 feet high at the hip, actually a little bit taller at the hip than Sue (who's also 40 feet long, but is 13 feet at the hip); so if Samson is a male T.rex, then Tyrannosaurus could be dimorphic in that females were smaller than males vertically. But to my knowledge, nobody's actually attempted to figure out Samson's gender, so that's not a conclusive point. Hell, Samson could also be a subspecies of the genus, not a male T.rex.

But by comparing the two, I noticed Samson has narrower hips than Sue; so it's possible that he is male, and thus that T.rex was sexually dimorphic in some manner.

And yeah, we're getting off topic....though if we use T.rex as a comparison, Godzilla has narrower hips, which could make him a male.

[bugmolly]

the trouble with T-rex is the sizes for them sort of jump around so Sue and Sampson may be nothing more than just larger than normal individuals and do not represent sexual dimorphism at all.

[Karmataurus]

On the matter of T.Rex, a lot of people forget that:

A. It has never been conclusively proven that Sue is even female. It's just a nickname from the paleontologist who found it, who happens to have been a woman. Infact, there is more evidence that it is male than female. (Lacking certain... bits near the hind area predominantly)

B. Dimorphism is usually height, weight, and width. Many species that have a male enormously larger than the female can have a much shorter length.

C. A Tyrannosaurus is a dinosaur, it's not a lizard and it's not a modern bird and it isn't a mammal. You can't just lump one into the other.

D. While weight wise these things won't be getting much heftier, estimates place larger specimens at a possible 18+ at the hips.

The Muto has been described by it's own designers as a mammal, which may seem puzzling for the theory at first (Males usually are much larger than females in mammals), but take this into consideration:

A. The Muto has been said to act like a parasite if a host is around. In many parasites, the male is dwarfed immensely by the female. Take Mosquitoes, not only is the female larger but she is the only one that poses any harm to larger animals.

B. The male has wings, female doesn't. This actually makes a lot of sense. There is, to my recollection, not a single animal species where the female seeks out and competes for the male. The male needs wings to search for, locate, and mate with the female. He doesn't have to be big, he has to be fast and showy. You may have noticed the male Muto has a lot more white and glows a more vibrant red. This is likely to woo his potential mate. The male didn't seem too protective of the brood but instead of the female, and that gives this theory even more credence. The female is huge and intimidating to defend her offspring. The male just needs to be fast enough to get to his mate, get some spawn, and defend his female from competitors. Or in this case, giant radioactive reptiles.

Now then, my take on Godzilla's biology and intelligence.

Godzilla's intelligence is a hard to place thing in this film. As someone already mentioned, he spends a lot of time screeching his lungs out at his foes rather than actually doing anything. Think about it for a second. The only reason he started to lose that fight near the end is because instead of attacking, he's busy roaring at the two. Now, why the hell is he doing this? We see he is perfectly capable of killing them 1 v 1, I'd dare say even if Ford left the nest unattended he could have eventually killed them.

I think Godzilla was sizing his foes up. He never feels dominated until the end, he fought the Male for almost an hour without noticeable wounds from either side. Kind of strange, isn't it? If you ask me, he was trying to see what they were capable of. After he realized that the female posed more of a threat to him, he went out to use his 'secret weapon' and weakened her enough that if the male did not appear he could have easily finished her. If you're wondering why the hell he wasted time getting his ass wooped just to see what his foe was able to do, think about this. Godzilla can shoot nuclear radiation in a concentrated blast. These Mutos can fire EMPs (Sort of, more on that later). I think if I was a monster i'd want to know what 'super powers' my enemy has.

I don't think Godzilla is at all a human being in level of intelligence, but he is far beyond a standard animal, I'd dare say that he's like a 'stereotypical caveman' in a sense, he has 'sentience' and is fully aware of the world he lives in, but he's also very simplistic and relies on wit and brawn rather than true intelligence or technology.As for what Godzilla is? He's definitely not a straight up dinosaur, that's certain. His gills prod me to say he's a very basal archosaur or some highly developed amphibian.

Just my meaningless thoughts on the matter.

[KaijuArcade]

I honestly thought he was "King Kong smart" for some reason.

Yes, that's exactly how how his intelligence came off to me as well. Maybe not human levels of intelligence but he's at least as smart, self aware and capable of thinking and problem solving as a very intelligent gorilla (like Koko, as an example). The fact he shows emotion on his face several times (when he first shows up at the airport and is looking down at the male, he appears to have a slight grin on his face after roaring), when Ford sees him and he is wincing in pain with a very expressive face before making eye contact, and when he is intently watching and tracking the male Muto his face is very expressive and emotive, he actually looks determined and angry. Gareth himself has indicated in interviews that he is intelligent, likening his personality to that of a reluctant samurai. Gareth (paraphrased): 'He's like the last samurai. He's very old and he's very lonely. And he'd like nothing more than to simply be left alone but because of what we do, he's forced to return. And he saves the village (like a Samurai) but it comes at a great cost." That sounds like much more than just an animal acting on instinct and his behavior in the movie overall reflected that quote from Gareth. Also, an animal acting almost entirely on instinct probably wouldn't have the self control to carefully wait so long before using a move as powerful and important as the atomic breath at just the right moments (like a patient samurai waiting before using his katana).

Aside from all that, when you think about it, he's really no more and no less intelligent than he was in almost any given TOHO film the way I see it.

[Vankor]

A female would likely be larger and more physically powerful, buddy.

This is NOT universally true for all animals. I'm tired of that stereotypical blanket statement. Most mammals, many birds and many reptiles, the male is still larger.

[Ryguy]

This is completely untrue......

Mind backing that up with some proof?

As 2004Zilla said, it is just unknown. So thus, you can't come to such baseless conclusions.

[2009MECHAGODZILLA]

So...is thread dead or...

[Shadow Queen]

On the matter of T.Rex, a lot of people forget that:

A. It has never been conclusively proven that Sue is even female. It's just a nickname from the paleontologist who found it, who happens to have been a woman. Infact, there is more evidence that it is male than female. (Lacking certain... bits near the hind area predominantly)

B. Dimorphism is usually height, weight, and width. Many species that have a male enormously larger than the female can have a much shorter length.

C. A Tyrannosaurus is a dinosaur, it's not a lizard and it's not a modern bird and it isn't a mammal. You can't just lump one into the other.

D. While weight wise these things won't be getting much heftier, estimates place larger specimens at a possible 18+ at the hips.

The Muto has been described by it's own designers as a mammal, which may seem puzzling for the theory at first (Males usually are much larger than females in mammals), but take this into consideration:

A. The Muto has been said to act like a parasite if a host is around. In many parasites, the male is dwarfed immensely by the female. Take Mosquitoes, not only is the female larger but she is the only one that poses any harm to larger animals.

B. The male has wings, female doesn't. This actually makes a lot of sense. There is, to my recollection, not a single animal species where the female seeks out and competes for the male. The male needs wings to search for, locate, and mate with the female. He doesn't have to be big, he has to be fast and showy. You may have noticed the male Muto has a lot more white and glows a more vibrant red. This is likely to woo his potential mate. The male didn't seem too protective of the brood but instead of the female, and that gives this theory even more credence. The female is huge and intimidating to defend her offspring. The male just needs to be fast enough to get to his mate, get some spawn, and defend his female from competitors. Or in this case, giant radioactive reptiles.

Now then, my take on Godzilla's biology and intelligence.

Godzilla's intelligence is a hard to place thing in this film. As someone already mentioned, he spends a lot of time screeching his lungs out at his foes rather than actually doing anything. Think about it for a second. The only reason he started to lose that fight near the end is because instead of attacking, he's busy roaring at the two. Now, why the hell is he doing this? We see he is perfectly capable of killing them 1 v 1, I'd dare say even if Ford left the nest unattended he could have eventually killed them.

I think Godzilla was sizing his foes up. He never feels dominated until the end, he fought the Male for almost an hour without noticeable wounds from either side. Kind of strange, isn't it? If you ask me, he was trying to see what they were capable of. After he realized that the female posed more of a threat to him, he went out to use his 'secret weapon' and weakened her enough that if the male did not appear he could have easily finished her. If you're wondering why the hell he wasted time getting his ass wooped just to see what his foe was able to do, think about this. Godzilla can shoot nuclear radiation in a concentrated blast. These Mutos can fire EMPs (Sort of, more on that later). I think if I was a monster i'd want to know what 'super powers' my enemy has.

I don't think Godzilla is at all a human being in level of intelligence, but he is far beyond a standard animal, I'd dare say that he's like a 'stereotypical caveman' in a sense, he has 'sentience' and is fully aware of the world he lives in, but he's also very simplistic and relies on wit and brawn rather than true intelligence or technology.As for what Godzilla is? He's definitely not a straight up dinosaur, that's certain. His gills prod me to say he's a very basal archosaur or some highly developed amphibian.

Just my meaningless thoughts on the matter.

Bro... You are thinking too much into it. This is a Godzilla movie; you know, part of a series where there are giant beetles with drill hands. Godzilla is just some ancient reptile species, and the Mutos are whothefuckknows. This renders this topic pointless, and thus should have it locked for good.

2009MECHAGODZILLA, nope, just tons of uninformed people acting like they know everything about animals

[Noble Saber]

Wow, such a thought-provoking concept to add to the discussion, Crump. Are you actually going to post anything worth reading or are you going to sit there with your thumb up your ass?

[2009MECHAGODZILLA]

2009MECHAGODZILLA, nope, just tons of uninformed people acting like they know everything about animals

I asked that because this thread was inactive for over a month and it's a pretty interesting thread, too.

[Jiragozira14]

Bro... You are thinking too much into it. This is a Godzilla movie; you know, part of a series where there are giant beetles with drill hands. Godzilla is just some ancient reptile species, and the Mutos are whothefuckknows. This renders this topic pointless, and thus should have it locked for good.

2009MECHAGODZILLA,nope, just tons of uninformed people acting like they know everything about animals

You know, some people like having discussions like this. No need to be a prick about it just because you think it's pointless, Crump. :p

And to the bolded part; it's called "comparative anatomy", dude. A ton of experts use it, so again acting like an arrogant ass about this is only making you look more like an ass then the very people you say are "overthinking this".
Also;

This is a Godzilla movie; you know, part of a series where there are giant beetles with drill hands.

That doesn't apply in this specific continuity, since Megalon isn't a factor in the Legendary continuity, making that point absolutely null.

And also....

This renders this topic pointless, and thus should have it locked for good.

Dude, I can understand if you don't like a topic; but don't freakin' armchair mod. Other people think this topic has a point (we have multiple pages for a reason), so saying "THIS TOPIC NEEDS TO BE LOCKED BECAUSE I SAY IT'S POINTLESS FOR REASONS!" is being petty.

Ontopic: I still stand by the idea that Godzilla is some kind of bizzarely-derived dinosaur; he doesn't really fit much else in terms of design aesthetics.

[Vatarian]

A female would likely be larger and more physically powerful, buddy.

This is NOT universally true for all animals. I'm tired of that stereotypical blanket statement. Most mammals, many birds and many reptiles, the male is still larger.

And I totally said it was true for ALL ANIMALS, kiddie boi.

[Ultron]

Jigirozilla, and so your remarks add any more credibility to everybody here how??? Oh yea, because claiming that experts use a certain biological technique suddenly makes each and every one of you an expert? Anyone can find similarities between different objects; it doesn't take a fucking genius. End of story, bye bye.

And the Godzilla series is still the Godzilla series; who gives a fuck if Megalon is part of a separate continuity? Nothing in G14 save for the direct effect of the creatures, their movements/actions, and the human response to the disaster is meant to be taken seriously in the realistic sense. Jurassic Park is no different, even though it used "real" creatures

Oh yea, SUP everyone! I have been the alter-ego for the Shadow Queen

[g2vd]

Oh yea, SUP everyone! I have been the alter-ego for the Shadow Queen