Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby TetsukiGroudon » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:24 pm

2004Zilla wrote:G98 is the farthest thing away from a "realistic" design. It has the posture as a theropod, which is the only thing it has going for it in terms of accuracy. And even then, it doesn't make sense, because he's not a dinosaur.

Horizontal stance =/= realistic

You probably aren't replying to me, buuut, just in case. I actually agree. I just forgot to put realistic in quotes. I mean, I'm saying what other people would probably say, not myself. And for whatever reason, some think that horizantal equals realistic.

Just to clarify because I dislike being misquoted later on.

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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby Ryguy » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:22 pm

I don't think you understand, it doesn't matter how they're designed, no creature the size of kaiju could ever exist, ever. Their bodies would be crushed by their own weight the second they popped into existence, the only realistic kaiju is a massive puddle of tissue and organ remnants. It doesn't matter how they're designed and your concept of what makes them "realistic" or not doesn't affect it, any single creature that size, regardless of how it looks, instantly collapses into a puddle of goo, a victim of its own weight.

Then it is pointless to debate about it. We can only talk about realism in the sense of morphology (NOT the likelihood of such a creature actually existing), and 95% of Godzilla kaiju have next to no realism in their designs. But Zilla is more-or-less just a theropod dinosaur biologically (yes, I know she is a mutant iguana too....)

This is why it's ridiculous to radically change classic designs in the name of "realism." The 1998 Godzilla design is still completely, 100% impossible. Smaugesque Ghidorah is completely, 100% impossible. Changing their designs to something that drains the character of what makes it unique does literally nothing to add realism, since either way the second it exists it turns to a messy puddle. We already have one travesty based on a Toho creature from nearly two decades ago, leave these mistakes in the past where they belong.

But there is a way to make a monster more "acceptable" to the GA. What do you think they will accept more? An elegant, Otachi-like animal or some hydra with an ape-like chest and pillar legs?

I made a big post refuting what Ry said and it got deleted..quite annoying.

If you actually read my post, you would understand that there is not much that can actually be refuted... -_-

I find it ironic that the guy wanting realism doesn't have a basic understanding of square-cube law.

Wow, just wow....

I'll all for doing new and original things with established franchises and names. But not when it's in the name of "realism". No. "Realism" and "Giant Monsters" don't get along. I hate the attitude that we need to make things more dark 'n gritty 'n realistic when you're dealing with such impossible things. It's silly to place "realistic" restrictions on things that can only exist in fantasy.

I already understand this.... But there is a different sense of realism in using realistic animal biology to animate monsters and the inability for such a humongous creature to exist given square cube law. This isn't a science lesson, people...

Think about King Kong: he is an oversized gorilla, right? And in the 2005 film, his design was modified as to provide as much accuracy with the real animals as possible. Hence, this is a much more accurate interpretation of the monster than the 70s version, which was more like a bigfoot, despite being a gorilla. Do I need to dumb-it-down for proper understanding?
You probably aren't replying to me, buuut, just in case. I actually agree. I just forgot to put realistic in quotes. I mean, I'm saying what other people would probably say, not myself. And for whatever reason, some think that horizantal equals realistic.

Uh, because it already is a realistic body posture in the animal kingdom.... Terrestrial prehistoric reptiles that were bipedal did not stand erect like humans. Heck, even the kangaroo-like stance was proven inaccurate in bipedal dinosaurs some time ago. By that logic, G54 and every other Toho incarnation of the character is miles more "unrealistic" than Zilla. Illustrating Zilla as just a gigantic marine iguana would be even MORE "realistic" in this sense, because that is what she was before mutation.

If Zilla was a giant human, an erect posture could be labelled as "realistic", but of course an animal of such immense size is already impossible, so it is pointless to argue about this. I still don't know why you are all making this so much more difficult than it needs to be....
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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby ebirah_scampi » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:00 pm

Ryguy wrote:But there is a way to make a monster more "acceptable" to the GA. What do you think they will accept more? An elegant, Otachi-like animal or some hydra with an ape-like chest and pillar legs?



Wrong again my friend, the General Audience absolutely hated the 1998 Godzilla with all of its radical alterations done in the name of "realism." The Legendary Godzilla is the most successful one to date with your average movie goer.

Whenever a filmmaker thinks they know better than the source material it ends up being a disaster. Devlin and Emmerich thought Godzilla wasn't real enough for audiences, and their "improvement" was gino. Fox though Dragon Ball wasn't cool enough and their "improvement" was the travesty Dragonball Evolution. Josh Trank thought the Fantastic Four were lame and he could do better, his version just became the lowest rated Marvel related film ever made and lost 100 million dollars. Long story short, these characters are still around 50 years later because they work, there's no need to change them, time and time again audiences and critics have turned on unnecessary change. Changing it to make something impossible "realistic", even though it's not any less impossible, makes it even more ridiculous.

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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby miguelnuva » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:12 pm

ebirah_scampi wrote:
Ryguy wrote:But there is a way to make a monster more "acceptable" to the GA. What do you think they will accept more? An elegant, Otachi-like animal or some hydra with an ape-like chest and pillar legs?



Wrong again my friend, the General Audience absolutely hated the 1998 Godzilla with all of its radical alterations done in the name of "realism." The Legendary Godzilla is the most successful one to date with your average movie goer.

Whenever a filmmaker thinks they know better than the source material it ends up being a disaster. Devlin and Emmerich thought Godzilla wasn't real enough for audiences, and their "improvement" was gino. Fox though Dragon Ball wasn't cool enough and their "improvement" was the travesty Dragonball Evolution. Josh Trank thought the Fantastic Four were lame and he could do better, his version just became the lowest rated Marvel related film ever made and lost 100 million dollars. Long story short, these characters are still around 50 years later because they work, there's no need to change them, time and time again audiences and critics have turned on unnecessary change. Changing it to make something impossible "realistic", even though it's not any less impossible, makes it even more ridiculous.


I disagree you don't have to stick to source material as long as you can make a good movie.
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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby ebirah_scampi » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:23 pm

miguelnuva wrote:
ebirah_scampi wrote:
Ryguy wrote:But there is a way to make a monster more "acceptable" to the GA. What do you think they will accept more? An elegant, Otachi-like animal or some hydra with an ape-like chest and pillar legs?



Wrong again my friend, the General Audience absolutely hated the 1998 Godzilla with all of its radical alterations done in the name of "realism." The Legendary Godzilla is the most successful one to date with your average movie goer.

Whenever a filmmaker thinks they know better than the source material it ends up being a disaster. Devlin and Emmerich thought Godzilla wasn't real enough for audiences, and their "improvement" was gino. Fox though Dragon Ball wasn't cool enough and their "improvement" was the travesty Dragonball Evolution. Josh Trank thought the Fantastic Four were lame and he could do better, his version just became the lowest rated Marvel related film ever made and lost 100 million dollars. Long story short, these characters are still around 50 years later because they work, there's no need to change them, time and time again audiences and critics have turned on unnecessary change. Changing it to make something impossible "realistic", even though it's not any less impossible, makes it even more ridiculous.


I disagree you don't have to stick to source material as long as you can make a good movie.


It may be a well made movie but it won't be a good [insert franchise here] movie, making it a bad thing all said and done. I don't care if someone makes a movie that's better than Citizen Kane, if it's based on an existing franchise you have to respect the source material. See my examples above.

Heck look at Citizen Kane, it's a great movie but even if you changed the main character's name to Clark Kent it's a horrible Superman movie. If you want to do your own thing entirely make an original movie.

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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby ernesth100 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:03 pm

Y'know I get the feeling Ghidorah may be one of the harder redesigns for legendary a lot of high expectations. But if we know anything about America its that they love to radically redesign things. So...um...brace yourselves I guess
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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby TetsukiGroudon » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:31 pm

Ryguy wrote:-Snippity snip snip-


I think the problem here is that your "realism" is more-so "This design resemble a real life creature's structure and thus is more realistic" rather than applying actual adaptations that make sense.

I wouldn't really compare Godzilla to a theropod, as Godzilla has a much different lifestyle. Godzilla may be based off one in design, sure, but he's overall a much different creature.

As for Ghidorah? Same goes. The wyvern design.... Just looks rather weird on him. I mean, you act as if they'd directly use the designs and structure of the old ghidorah. But really, they'll probably make just update the design to make it more appealing and fitting to this series. Just as they did for G14.

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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby Frezgle » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:17 pm

Realism =/= Believability

Talking about "realism" when it comes to kaiju designs is entirely pointless, as nothing in real life comes close to the scale of these things. Their bodies would fall apart just by existing. LP Godzilla isn't realistic. There is no saurian or reptilian creature that uses a primarily upright and tail-dragging stance to walk around in. None I can think of with three rows of large scutes on its back. None that can breathe freakin' atomic breath.

He is, however, believable. The way the skin is textured, the way he moves, the muscle structures. All of it is rendered in a way not unlike real animals, while still being a far cry from what actually occurs in nature. Hell, even his atomic breath looks familiar to things like streams of fire and plasma.

I highly doubt Legendary is going to turn Rodan into a carbon copy of a pterosaur, and they're not gonna make Ghidorah into Hollywood Dragon #785. Or at least, I doubt they will based on how they handled Godzilla. They seem to know what they're doing.
Regarding Ghidorah's wings, since that seems to be a hot issue, all that needs to be done is for them to be given believable supporting structures while still keeping the fan-like silhouette of the original design's.
Resized Image
Now if we just pretend I didn't draw this using my laptop's trackpad with cold fingers, this is what I mean. The shape is there, but the structure is different. An actual limb, phalanges, and an elbow spike like Yi Qi's for good measure. I'm fairly confident that something like this is as drastic as it's gonna get :p
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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby GigaBowserG » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:06 pm

^ Interesting :) Still on the fence with the whole idea of bat-bird-like wings, but can't deny the silhouette looks very Ghidoran. A reinvention of the golden three-headed monster with such wings wouldn't bother me in the long run.
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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby Young Guy » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:22 am

I wonder if they'll actually make Mothra beautiful/cute like in the Toho movies or terrifying like a real moth. Have you seen what those monstrosities look like up-close?

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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby ernesth100 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:58 am

Young Guy wrote:I wonder if they'll actually make Mothra beautiful/cute like in the Toho movies or terrifying like a real moth. Have you seen what those monstrosities look like up-close?

Considering Mothra has always been good and handled as a graceful creature. I assume she'll be beautiful.
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I want Kong v Godzilla To Be like BvS but...y'know, better critically received. With Mothra filling the role of Wonder Woman and Ghidorah filling the role of Doomsday. Here's to hoping. :D

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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby Lain Of The Wired » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:29 am

Young Guy wrote:I wonder if they'll actually make Mothra beautiful/cute like in the Toho movies or terrifying like a real moth. Have you seen what those monstrosities look like up-close?

According to the teaser footage, a giant real moth
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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby ernesth100 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:39 am

Lain Of The Wired wrote:
Young Guy wrote:I wonder if they'll actually make Mothra beautiful/cute like in the Toho movies or terrifying like a real moth. Have you seen what those monstrosities look like up-close?

According to the teaser footage, a giant real moth

Well then, bad idea imo. But hey not like I'm makin the film. :lol:
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I want Kong v Godzilla To Be like BvS but...y'know, better critically received. With Mothra filling the role of Wonder Woman and Ghidorah filling the role of Doomsday. Here's to hoping. :D

Calling It Now, GvKK, King Kong won't be an inch under 250 ft.

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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby Notcriswell » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:54 am

I always liked the look of the Hensai Ghidorah from the waist up - back leg and tail should be elongated perhaps?
whatever they do it needs to look more natural

the Fire Rodan from GvMG2 is awesome

the Hensai Mothra is great just make the legs (and they way they move) more natural looking

so are we looking at a remake of Ghidrah the Three-Headed Monster?

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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby Tyrant28 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:05 am

Frezgle wrote:Realism =/= Believability

Talking about "realism" when it comes to kaiju designs is entirely pointless, as nothing in real life comes close to the scale of these things. Their bodies would fall apart just by existing. LP Godzilla isn't realistic. There is no saurian or reptilian creature that uses a primarily upright and tail-dragging stance to walk around in. None I can think of with three rows of large scutes on its back. None that can breathe freakin' atomic breath.

He is, however, believable. The way the skin is textured, the way he moves, the muscle structures. All of it is rendered in a way not unlike real animals, while still being a far cry from what actually occurs in nature. Hell, even his atomic breath looks familiar to things like streams of fire and plasma.

I highly doubt Legendary is going to turn Rodan into a carbon copy of a pterosaur, and they're not gonna make Ghidorah into Hollywood Dragon #785. Or at least, I doubt they will based on how they handled Godzilla. They seem to know what they're doing.
Regarding Ghidorah's wings, since that seems to be a hot issue, all that needs to be done is for them to be given believable supporting structures while still keeping the fan-like silhouette of the original design's.
http://orig13.deviantart.net/3d2d/f/201 ... 9o3v8t.png
Now if we just pretend I didn't draw this using my laptop's trackpad with cold fingers, this is what I mean. The shape is there, but the structure is different. An actual limb, phalanges, and an elbow spike like Yi Qi's for good measure. I'm fairly confident that something like this is as drastic as it's gonna get :p


Pretty much how I think his wings would go though I see that his wing membrane stretching down to his waist like this: http://orig13.deviantart.net/1d00/f/201 ... 9o40nh.jpg
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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby ebirah_scampi » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:16 am

Lain Of The Wired wrote:
Young Guy wrote:I wonder if they'll actually make Mothra beautiful/cute like in the Toho movies or terrifying like a real moth. Have you seen what those monstrosities look like up-close?

According to the teaser footage, a giant real moth



I'm confused on the teaser footage. I've heard some people say it showed quick shots of the monsters or at least parts of them in action, and other say it was just silhouettes on plain backgrounds. Does anyone know the details on it?

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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby Frezgle » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:50 pm

So, another idea for Ghidorah's wings came to me last night when I accidentally stepped on my 3.5e Draconomicon.
The classic DnD gold dragons have a really unique wing design that I think could work for our own gold dragon:
Resized Image
Basically the limb only has one supporting phalanx (and a thumb, or not), and the rest is what the book describes as "modified frill spines." In Ghiddy's case you'd just have to alter the lengths to better match the shape of his own wings, and there you go. Only problem is, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be able to bend his wings at the elbow, and would only be able to fold them directly down his back, but that's the only way we've ever seen his wings fold in the first place. Might not be a problem at all. :U

Plus, it makes for a super-cool flight style.
Image

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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby Giga Kaiju » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:53 pm

I almost EXPECT a medieval-looking Ghidorah with some alien-esque traits at that even.

I woundlt mind if Legendary aimed for Ghidorah having traits of Heisei and Grand King Ghidorah to add to the fact of him looking more draconic.
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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby Godzillakuj94 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:26 pm

Giga Kaiju wrote:I almost EXPECT a medieval-looking Ghidorah with some alien-esque traits at that even.

I woundlt mind if Legendary aimed for Ghidorah having traits of Heisei and Grand King Ghidorah to add to the fact of him looking more draconic.

And some Cretaceous King Ghidorah traits wouldn't hurt either.

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Re: Rodan, Mothra, & King Ghidorah Designs (2018-)

Postby Giga Kaiju » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:59 pm

Yeah. To round it all up, yeah. I mean, I like Showa's design a lot, don't get me wrong, but the 'newer' Ghidorahs seem more akin to what Legendary might be doing with him. Unless they change their mind, or Toho has more control and give him a llok reminiscent of the early Ghidorah but I'm not so sure on it. It'd be kind of cool in a way, though.
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