What is Godzilla? His species?

For the discussion of the Legendary Pictures MonsterVerse. This includes Godzilla (2014), Kong: Skull Island and any upcoming films under the MonsterVerse umbrella.
Forum rules
Please be sure to read the subforum sticky "Regarding: Monsterverse Leaks & Unofficial Photos [Updated 7/13/2018]", linked below. Thank you!

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26327&p=1472505
User avatar
Olzh26
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:41 am

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Olzh26 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:56 am

AllosaurHell wrote:
Olzh26 wrote:
AllosaurHell wrote:I prefer to think he's just a giant radioactive dinosaur, since dinosaurs are something I cherish and having a giant hero that happens to be an overpowered dinosaur is just too badass to me.

Unfortunately, he is not a dinosaur as it precedes them.

Whose to say he isn't the first dinosaur and dinosaurs succeeded him?

Godzilla comes from the end of the Permian period. Then there were no dinosaurs and even dinosauromorphs, BUT then archosaurs already appeared. Maybe Godzilla is one of the first archosaurs and therefore is a fairly close relative of dinosaurs

User avatar
GodzillaFan1990's
Keizer
Posts: 9724
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:11 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby GodzillaFan1990's » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:56 am

I still go with synaspid with convergent evolution reptilian traits (Crocodilian like skin notably) especially given Godzilla's species evolved during the Permian period and his mammalian like features such as face and built (Bear like structure when standing).
Olzh26 wrote:Godzilla comes from the end of the Permian period. Then there were no dinosaurs and even dinosauromorphs, BUT then archosaurs already appeared. Maybe Godzilla is one of the first archosaurs and therefore is a fairly close relative of dinosaurs

Actually Godzilla himself is 250 million years old. For all we know his species could had arose anytime during the Permian whether early, mid or late.
Last edited by GodzillaFan1990's on Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
AllosaurHell
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:28 pm
Location: Baja Blast Temple, Hollow Earth

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby AllosaurHell » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:27 pm

Regardless of what he may be, I consider Godzilla an archosaur because he shares many characteristics with them and it helps that archosaurs and Godzilla were both around at the same time.
"Listen, it's a free country. It's not rent-free country."
- Mr. Ditkovich from Spider-Man 3.

Check out my YouTube channels: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNmWOVX-6Whjz3BPwEMXG0Q https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYySx8TfhJp16vDvNTvTlRQ

User avatar
Olzh26
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:41 am

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Olzh26 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:26 am

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:I still go with synaspid with convergent evolution reptilian traits (Crocodilian like skin notably) especially given Godzilla's species evolved during the Permian period and his mammalian like features such as face and built (Bear like structure when standing).
Olzh26 wrote:Godzilla comes from the end of the Permian period. Then there were no dinosaurs and even dinosauromorphs, BUT then archosaurs already appeared. Maybe Godzilla is one of the first archosaurs and therefore is a fairly close relative of dinosaurs

Actually Godzilla himself is 250 million years old. For all we know his species could had arose anytime during the Permian whether early, mid or late.

even Perm synapsids may have wool and antennae. It is unlikely that this can be eliminated through convergence. the structure of Godzilla is more like the structure of archosaurs. the bears are not fully bipedal; they move on four legs while many archosaurs were fully bipedal. the fact that the synapsid is similar to reptile only because of convergence seems very far-fetched to me. mimic muscles are literally the only thing that unites Godzilla with mammals. I am by no means trying to offend you. I respect your opinion, but I strongly disagree here.
Last edited by Olzh26 on Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Vandarker
Interpol Agent
Posts: 513
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:15 am

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Vandarker » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:10 am

There was that tidbit in the official novelization, which hinted at the possibility of the Titans hailing from an even older time period than previously thought, when no other lifeform existed on Earth. Which makes sense because it's a better explanation than plain old evolution somehow changing tiny reptiles into flying volcanoes and walking atomic bombs. If this is official, then all this taxonomical discussion is pretty much invalid cause the Titans (including Godzilla) aren't organisms as we know them.

User avatar
GodzillaFan1990's
Keizer
Posts: 9724
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:11 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby GodzillaFan1990's » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:27 am

Olzh26 wrote:even Perm synapsids may have wool and antennae. It is unlikely that this can be eliminated through convergence. the structure of Godzilla is more like the structure of archosaurs. the bears are not fully bipedal; they move on four legs while many archosaurs were fully bipedal. the fact that the synapsid is similar to reptile only because of convergence seems very far-fetched to me. mimic muscles are literally the only thing that unites Godzilla with mammals. I am by no means trying to offend you. I respect your opinion, but I strongly disagree here.

No hard feelings man. I just figure he might had been a synapsid given the time period his species arose. I'm more down for the idea of an archosaur since he'd be much closer to reptiles then ever which I love. :huge:

User avatar
Olzh26
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:41 am

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Olzh26 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:32 am

skreeonk this. It was just Mark's theory, which contradicts some of the already known facts. besides, I can’t imagine where such organisms can come from at a time when only microorganisms lived on Earth. And if they are from a period when there were not even animals, then why do they look like ordinary animals and behave the like animals? It's just nonsense

Added in 26 minutes 9 seconds:
GodzillaFan1990's wrote:
Olzh26 wrote:even Perm synapsids may have wool and antennae. It is unlikely that this can be eliminated through convergence. the structure of Godzilla is more like the structure of archosaurs. the bears are not fully bipedal; they move on four legs while many archosaurs were fully bipedal. the fact that the synapsid is similar to reptile only because of convergence seems very far-fetched to me. mimic muscles are literally the only thing that unites Godzilla with mammals. I am by no means trying to offend you. I respect your opinion, but I strongly disagree here.

No hard feelings man. I just figure he might had been a synapsid given the time period his species arose. I'm more down for the idea of an archosaur since he'd be much closer to reptiles then ever which I love. :huge:

in the comic it was said that this is the end of Perm. it was then that the archosaurs appeared. I am sure that the whole species was meant, not just Godzilla. And even if he appeared a little earlier, then he is a different kind of reptile, and not an archosaur. even other reptiles look more like Godzilla than synapsids are like Godzilla
Last edited by Olzh26 on Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
GodzillaFan1990's
Keizer
Posts: 9724
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:11 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby GodzillaFan1990's » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:14 pm

On top of Godzilla's species being of the archosaur family I also like the idea of Godzilla's species being the ancestor and granddaddy of all non-avian dinosaurs.

User avatar
Olzh26
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:41 am

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Olzh26 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:07 am

Where else besides the comic was it said that Godzilla from Perm?

User avatar
Gawdziller1954
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:29 pm
Location: Painis Island

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Gawdziller1954 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:24 am

Olzh26 wrote:Where else besides the comic was it said that Godzilla from Perm?

2014, IIRC. The novelization for KOTM suggests that Godzilla did not actually evolve during the permian but evolved later in the underground caverns.
OH NO, IT'S GAWDZILLER!! :D

Image
Image

User avatar
Olzh26
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:41 am

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Olzh26 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:51 pm

Gawdziller1954 wrote:
Olzh26 wrote:Where else besides the comic was it said that Godzilla from Perm?

2014, IIRC. The novelization for KOTM suggests that Godzilla did not actually evolve during the permian but evolved later in the underground caverns.

1) What is IIRC?

2) I do not understand this novel. At the beginning it says that the titans from Archean (although this was just a theory), then that the titans did not evolve after the Permian period.
Last edited by Olzh26 on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Gawdziller1954
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:29 pm
Location: Painis Island

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Gawdziller1954 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:08 pm

Olzh26 wrote:
Gawdziller1954 wrote:
Olzh26 wrote:Where else besides the comic was it said that Godzilla from Perm?

2014, IIRC. The novelization for KOTM suggests that Godzilla did not actually evolve during the permian but evolved later in the underground caverns.

1) What is IIRC?

2) I do not understand this novel. At the beginning it says that the titans from Archean (although this was just a theory), then that the titans did not evolve before the Permian period.

If I Recall Correctly = IIRC.

That is true. The novel is secondary canon, but it does state that while the accepted theory (at the time) was that the Titans evolved on the surface and then went into the seas and such to escape the lowering radioactive levels on the surface, some "crackpots" believed that the earth had large cavities in it (The Hollow Earth, which was disregarded as a myth or misidentification) and that the titans evolved there and eventually came to the surface later on.
OH NO, IT'S GAWDZILLER!! :D

Image
Image

User avatar
Olzh26
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:41 am

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Olzh26 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:31 am

Gawdziller1954 wrote:
Olzh26 wrote:
Gawdziller1954 wrote:2014, IIRC. The novelization for KOTM suggests that Godzilla did not actually evolve during the permian but evolved later in the underground caverns.

1) What is IIRC?

2) I do not understand this novel. At the beginning it says that the titans from Archean (although this was just a theory), then that the titans did not evolve before the Permian period.

If I Recall Correctly = IIRC.

That is true. The novel is secondary canon, but it does state that while the accepted theory (at the time) was that the Titans evolved on the surface and then went into the seas and such to escape the lowering radioactive levels on the surface, some "crackpots" believed that the earth had large cavities in it (The Hollow Earth, which was disregarded as a myth or misidentification) and that the titans evolved there and eventually came to the surface later on.

I reviewed 2014 many times and remember that the Perm period was never mentioned there

User avatar
Gawdziller1954
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:29 pm
Location: Painis Island

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Gawdziller1954 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:15 pm

Olzh26 wrote:
Gawdziller1954 wrote:
Olzh26 wrote:1) What is IIRC?

2) I do not understand this novel. At the beginning it says that the titans from Archean (although this was just a theory), then that the titans did not evolve before the Permian period.

If I Recall Correctly = IIRC.

That is true. The novel is secondary canon, but it does state that while the accepted theory (at the time) was that the Titans evolved on the surface and then went into the seas and such to escape the lowering radioactive levels on the surface, some "crackpots" believed that the earth had large cavities in it (The Hollow Earth, which was disregarded as a myth or misidentification) and that the titans evolved there and eventually came to the surface later on.

I reviewed 2014 many times and remember that the Perm period was never mentioned there

Then the only source that says that Godzilla is a permian species is Awakening, which is very dubious as best.
OH NO, IT'S GAWDZILLER!! :D

Image
Image

User avatar
Stump Feet
Futurian
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:45 am

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Stump Feet » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:22 pm

Could be wrong but i think there’s mentioning of it in the 2014 novel too but it’s been five years since I read it so don’t quote me.
*Looks at GKOTM’s box office numbers*
Long Live The Sting

User avatar
Olzh26
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:41 am

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Olzh26 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:48 am

lately I’m very worried about the possibility that the titans appeared in the Archean and are relatives. a line from the short story hints at this. legendary, hear our prayers and do not make it canon.

User avatar
G2000
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4792
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:34 pm

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby G2000 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:49 am

Olzh26 wrote:lately I’m very worried about the possibility that the titans appeared in the Archean and are relatives. a line from the short story hints at this. legendary, hear our prayers and do not make it canon.


What short story?

In any case it doesn’t particularly bother me all that much, Godzilla and the other Titans are enough of an impossible biological aberration as is that their having somehow managed to evolved during the Archean Eon makes just as much sense as anything, and even if it were made canon I can’t see it affecting the actual plot that much
Last edited by G2000 on Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
gerdzerl wrote:DONT STOP G2000 YOU SEXY BEAST

User avatar
Gerdzerl
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3427
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:16 pm
Location: Inside an 80's neon space station in high orbit
Contact:

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Gerdzerl » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:49 am

Yeah, I mean, when you have broad designations for multiple, clearly unrelated creatures like Titanus, and weird poop like Icarus Tigris (Why are all the last names in binomial nomenclature in the MonsterVerse uppercase instead of lowercase?) instead of Panthera tigris icarus, it's pretty obvious that none of the people writing this stuff actually care about in-universe consistency with real world science beyond just surface level verisimilitude. Which is fine, since this is fiction and all, and it's not like Toho has ever gave a poop about this sort of thing either.

The Titans being from the Archean is pretty much business-as-usual for kaiju media. Like, yeah, it's dumb and all, but you just kind of have to go along with it and not think about it too much, y'know?
Last edited by Gerdzerl on Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Olzh26
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:41 am

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Olzh26 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:10 pm

G2000 wrote:
Olzh26 wrote:lately I’m very worried about the possibility that the titans appeared in the Archean and are relatives. a line from the short story hints at this. legendary, hear our prayers and do not make it canon.


What short story?

In any case it doesn’t particularly bother me all that much, Godzilla and the other Titans are enough of an impossible biological aberration as is that their having somehow managed to evolved during the Archean Eon makes just as much sense as anything, and even if it were made canon I can’t see it affecting the actual plot that much

Novel. Mark’s theory of which you spoke (I hope this will remain a theory)

not. their appearance, their biology are as close as possible to real animals. they are not like creatures that are not part of the "natural order". their behavior is also very similar to the behavior of animals. also do not like that the creatures of natural origin are supposedly not classified, the paleontology and biology nerd in me is going crazy.

Yes, this does not really affect the plot, but nonetheless it is very important for me. As a reptile lover, I always appreciated Godzilla for his image, but the fact that he is a creature from the Archean destroys it. because of this, the film begins to be perceived for me a little differently. It's my personal opinion.

User avatar
Fish Cakes
Interpol Agent
Posts: 610
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:28 am
Location: Vague SF Bay Area

Re: What is Godzilla? His species?

Postby Fish Cakes » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:21 pm

he a godzilla
Drink 32oz of water a day, exercise daily for at least 30 minutes, take your meds as prescribed, eat healthy (count calories), reach out to your support network when you need them, practice basic hygiene, learn from your mistakes, forgive yourself for your failures, admit when you're wrong, be humble when you're right, be nice to animals, and try again.
"You were born perfect, keep improving."


Return to “MonsterVerse (2014-Present)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests