Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

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Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby G2000 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:01 pm

Image

From the opening credits.

For those uninformed:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_(ACR-1)#Sinking

It's definitely an interesting idea, and it's cool that they worked in the mystery surrounding sinking of the Maine.
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby G2000 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:11 pm

Living Corpse wrote:Okay now trying to kill Godzilla has a justifiable reason. Before the movie just made it seem like they panic and attacked something that was keeping to itself like a whale just because it was big.


He started a God-damned war with the Spanish Empire. You bet that when the US military sees an animal that can not only single-handedly sink a battleship, but can start a war.....yeah, there'd be a bit of a panic.
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby Dino4ex » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:19 pm

That's a very interesting detail, adds more the film. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby HannibalBarca » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:41 pm

I had seen references to the USS Maine in the opening credits before, but I kept wishing it away by saying it was probably a reference to something else. Well, now I can finally say for sure: Wow, this offends me as both a Godzilla fan AND a history buff!
In my opinion, of course.

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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby G2000 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:47 pm

HannibalBarca wrote:I had seen references to the USS Maine in the opening credits before, but I kept wishing it away by saying it was probably a reference to something else. Well, now I can finally say for sure: Wow, this offends me as both a Godzilla fan AND a history buff!


Yeah, it is kind of offensive that they're attributing a disaster that killed hundreds that led to a war that killed tens of thousands and basically affected Cuba forever to Godzilla.

I still find it to be an interesting concept, but it's still kinda tasteless.
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby HannibalBarca » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:51 pm

Well, there's that, and then there's just the inherent ridiculousness of the premise: if Godzilla was awakened by man's meddling in the science of nuclear energy, why was Godzilla awake in 1898, before the advent of the nuclear era? Why was he cruising around unnoticed in the relatively shallow harbor of Havana, blowing up US warships? Furthermore, most experts tend to agree at this point that a fire in the coal bunker caused the destruction of the ship, with a naval mine being the alternative theory.

This strikes me as being on the same plane as MacArthur's appearance in Awakening: an attempt to ground the story in something approximating historical reality, but wildly missing its mark to the point where it seems, to me anyway, borderline absurd.

But, whatever, I'm sure plenty of people will say I'm being overly critical, and maybe they're right. It just gets on my nerves, is all. It's a "blink-and-you-miss-it" frame anyway.
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby G2000 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:59 pm

Yes, it is quite ridiculous that if he was awoken by nuclear energy that he would be awake in 1898. Of course, the credits also show early human cave paintings and Mideval carvings of sea monsters, which would mean he never woke up solely for nuclear energy in the first place.

The idea of him going unnoticed in shallow, fairly clear water is kinda dumb. I guess the idea is that his involvement was covered up, but then why did MONARCH only form in the 1950s if the US government both knew that he existed and was dangerous since 1898?
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby HannibalBarca » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:02 pm

I thought that the sea monsters bit was a clever way to sort of introduce the movie's atmosphere, sort of like Godzilla being a god to the Odo islanders. Was their Godzilla actually the film's monster, or was it simply an ex post facto rationalization? Who knows? I thought it matched up well with the shot of "On the Origin of Species" that followed it, two different ways of man interpreting nature, one ancient and legendary, one modern and scientific.

But then you have the heavy implication that Godzilla blew up the USS Maine for some reason, and that just strikes me as being silly. :|
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby Dinozaurus » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:07 pm

HannibalBarca wrote:Well, there's that, and then there's just the inherent ridiculousness of the premise: if Godzilla was awakened by man's meddling in the science of nuclear energy, why was Godzilla awake in 1898, before the advent of the nuclear era? Why was he cruising around unnoticed in the relatively shallow harbor of Havana, blowing up US warships? Furthermore, most experts tend to agree at this point that a fire in the coal bunker caused the destruction of the ship, with a naval mine being the alternative theory.

This strikes me as being on the same plane as MacArthur's appearance in Awakening: an attempt to ground the story in something approximating historical reality, but wildly missing its mark to the point where it seems, to me anyway, borderline absurd.

But, whatever, I'm sure plenty of people will say I'm being overly critical, and maybe they're right. It just gets on my nerves, is all.

Maybe it was a different monster that was moving underground through the rock that was underneath the water of the port. However it doesn't explain why it would pass through the area. To a uranium deposit, into the ocean toward a deep sea vent, who knows? Either way it seems like an odd choice for an event to tie with the series.
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby Gothicserpent » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:24 pm

Why the hell was this not outside of the credits?!

This is great backstory and would have helped add Godzilla's presence more!
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby Mr. Xeno » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:29 pm

That "screenshot" at the top looks fake, but I'll look for it in the credits when someone puts them up online.

But honestly, the title of this thread is horrible as a concept and has no place in G2014. I mean, talk about poop world-building and completely inconsistent characterization of Godzilla.
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby HannibalBarca » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:30 pm

Nah, it's definitely in the opening credits, I remember seeing it. I just didn't want to believe it. =/
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby Mr. Xeno » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:31 pm

HannibalBarca wrote:Nah, it's definitely in the opening credits, I remember seeing it. I just didn't want to believe it. =/

*facepalm*

Not at you, HB, but the movie.
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby G2000 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:34 pm

Mr. Xeno wrote:That "screenshot" at the top looks fake, but I'll look for it in the credits when someone puts them up online.


*ahem*

https://www.flickr.com/photos/maulfan/s ... 314396007/
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby Dinozaurus » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:35 pm

Mr. Xeno wrote:
HannibalBarca wrote:Nah, it's definitely in the opening credits, I remember seeing it. I just didn't want to believe it. =/

*facepalm*

Not at you, HB, but the movie.

That's why I hope they replace Borenstein for the rest of the series.
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby three » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:43 pm

G2000 wrote:
HannibalBarca wrote:I had seen references to the USS Maine in the opening credits before, but I kept wishing it away by saying it was probably a reference to something else. Well, now I can finally say for sure: Wow, this offends me as both a Godzilla fan AND a history buff!


Yeah, it is kind of offensive that they're attributing a disaster that killed hundreds that led to a war that killed tens of thousands and basically affected Cuba forever to Godzilla.

I still find it to be an interesting concept, but it's still kinda tasteless.



wouldn't it then be equally tasteless to make use of Godzilla as a nuclear allegory? that did kill thousands and influence a century a political decisions, wars, economics, and culture. lets not overblow the use of the Maine here.
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby HannibalBarca » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:45 pm

I can't say I'm morally indignant at the use of the Maine in the sense that it's a tasteless appropriation of a major historical event. Lord knows we get enough of those. I'm upset because it's a silly idea that doesn't make a lick of sense.
In my opinion, of course.

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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby G2000 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:46 pm

three wrote:wouldn't it then be equally tasteless to make use of Godzilla as a nuclear allegory? that did kill thousands and influence a century a political decisions, wars, economics, and culture. lets not overblow the use of the Maine here.


Eh, you do have a valid point, three.

I would counter that nuclear allegory is integral to Godzilla's character, while the Spainish-American War is not. Unless you then counter that maybe Godzilla is an allegory for war in general, but that does not seem to be the characterization they went for in this film.
Last edited by G2000 on Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby three » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:50 pm

in terms of making him an important part of america's history, i think having him play a large role "behind the scenes" in starting a major event in american history does the job well. consider that previously, it appeared that we followed and attacked Godzilla for no real reason. having this context means that we not only had reason to fear his potential, but also that it is a mobile creature (it ended up in the caribbean sea to sink the maine, yet was found in the pacific).

i believe it was lost to time after that event, however, and that our reasoning was not that Godzilla was or has been proven inherently dangerous.
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!


Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - skreeonk in space.

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Re: Godzilla starts Spanish-American War

Postby G2000 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:57 pm

three wrote:i believe it was lost to time after that event, however, and that our reasoning was not that Godzilla was or has been proven inherently dangerous.


What, the Maine?

It was breifly raised and later disposed of in the Florida Strait.

Or do you mean Godzilla?
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