Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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three
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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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i just thought PR was generic in every way. generic heroes, generic sacrifice, romance, story, and ending. the only thing that was different were the creatures themselves, which were totally entertaining but terribly weak.

Godzilla was a bit more creative and successful in making a story about monsters with humans around, and not a story with monsters around and humans being the focus. i like it better when a movie does not try to hide what it is.
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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^PR really didn't have a romance plot, though. That actually seems to be one of the things people liked most about the script.

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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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Plexton wrote:^PR really didn't have a romance plot, though. That actually seems to be one of the things people liked most about the script.
romantic tension was there, all over the place. even if they didn't want it (scene when Mako i think it was sees the main shirtless, which was not about romance but something else) still came off as romantic and more steamy than plot driving. writers should have enough sense to know what an audience will and won't pick out of their scenes.
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - bitch in space.

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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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The "lack" of romance was something commonly well liked? I have heard the complete opposite, a major complaint about PR was the lack of romance and no final kiss between the two characters. Dunno what they were expecting, it's not like it'd make the main plot or the movie itself better.

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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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It's primarily because the character of Mako isn't reduced to 'love interest' and is instead the co-star of the movie; she already has the respect of the male members of the crew, her relationship with her father and co-pilot are mature, and there's never a scene where she runs around in short shorts and a tank top. That might not sound like much, but for Hollywood that's actually pretty progressive (compare Mako to Tessa from Transformers 4).

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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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The "romance" in PacRim was definitely a step above most summer blockbusters, but the subtext was still there. I woulda' appreciated the movie worlds more if they had just let Mako and Raleigh be unquestionably friends and friends only by the end instead of the vague "might be, might not" forehead touch. There aren't enough platonic male-female friendships in movies anymore.

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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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NSZ wrote:
three wrote:
Plexton wrote:^PR really didn't have a romance plot, though. That actually seems to be one of the things people liked most about the script.
romantic tension was there, all over the place. even if they didn't want it (scene when Mako i think it was sees the main shirtless, which was not about romance but something else) still came off as romantic and more steamy than plot driving. writers should have enough sense to know what an audience will and won't pick out of their scenes.
So it's the film's fault because the audiences have been bred by Hollywood to believe that if the two leads are a man and a woman, they are going to have a romantic interest in each other...

Y'know, it sounds to me like the problem isn't stemming from Pacific Rim...
yea, but the problem is there nonetheless.
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - bitch in space.

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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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HayesAJones wrote:The "romance" in PacRim was definitely a step above most summer blockbusters, but the subtext was still there. I woulda' appreciated the movie worlds more if they had just let Mako and Raleigh be unquestionably friends and friends only by the end instead of the vague "might be, might not" forehead touch. There aren't enough platonic male-female friendships in movies anymore.
"Anymore?" Have there ever been? :eh: It's a narrative trope as old as time itself that the hero/heroine gets the girl/guy in the end.
In my opinion, of course.

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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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three wrote:i just thought PR was generic in every way. generic heroes, generic sacrifice, romance, story, and ending. the only thing that was different were the creatures themselves, which were totally entertaining but terribly weak.

Godzilla was a bit more creative and successful in making a story about monsters with humans around, and not a story with monsters around and humans being the focus. i like it better when a movie does not try to hide what it is.
Image
First of all, how is Pacific Rim hiding what it is? From the get go, it was intended to be nothing more than a Giant Robots Vs. Giant Monsters action bonanza in the vein of daikaiju movies and animes, with everything else being less important than the action and world. In fact, Guillermo del Toro's exact words were "It's about giant fucking monsters fighting giant fucking robots". But Godzilla doesn't hide what it is? Godzilla didn't put Bryan Cranston in all the trailers front and center? The filmmakers didn't reference the original film with every breath? The movie didn't hype itself up as a gut-wrenching, dark, realistic, disaster film and yet only turn out to be a light-hearted Vs. film?

And secondly, how do all of those things not apply to Godzilla even more so? How are that film's heroes any less generic? It's "sacrifice" is completely pointless and ruins the film by killing off the only interesting character 1/3 of the way in. The romance between Ford and Elle was far more cliche and lifeless than some simple underlining cutesy looks like in Pacific Rim (I actually loved Raleigh and Mako's relationship in the film; just a hint of attraction, but nothing ever comes of it, and their attraction to each other actually makes sense given how they drift with each other and have gone through some intense challenges together). The story in Godzilla isn't as equally, if not more so, filled with holes, despite trying to be a far more serious film? Yeah, there are holes in Pacific Rim (like with all movies), but should movies with completely different aspirations be judged on equal ground? Is it just as unforgivable for Piranha 3D to have as many gaping holes as The Godfather? As for the ending, Gispy and Raleigh going through the drift and closing the portal was far less epic and involving than a bunch of redshirt soldiers with no personalities running back and forth to save the city from one of the worst written, most contrived plot devices? And what about the MUTOs? The PR kaiju were extremely weak, but some blandly detailed monsters (who actually have the same EMP pulse ability as Leatherback) aren't?
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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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you're at an 11. make it a 2 and we'll talk, xeno.
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - bitch in space.

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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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three wrote:you're at an 11. make it a 2 and we'll talk, xeno.
Image

Ok, why exactly did you find Pacific Rim to be pretending something that it's not? Why do you view Godzilla as less deserving of your criticisms than Pacific Rim? Do you think it's fair to judge completely different types of movies on identical grounds?
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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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it was masquerading as a kaiju film, but really delivered us something that could have well been about WWII with equally dazzling visual spectacles. it could do this without altering much of the story itself -- just changing the villains. that's pretty general, but it was a very basic and general movie, which brings me to point about PR being worthy of Godzilla's criticisms.

i believe that everything said about Godzilla could be more appropriately applied to PR. for example: dull characters. the best, the very best character in PR, was Chau. i held it against PR that they gave him so little time (more so than i did killing cranston early) because while Godzilla didn't rely so strongly on its characters, PR did. i felt it was more of a character driven movie, while Godzilla was more conflict - driven. notice that the conflicts in PR arise around the characters themselves -- it's their fault almost. in Godzilla these people find themselves stuck. it focuses on a dull character, sure, but he doesn't need to be better to improve the story being told ------ that's not necessary. therefore, i apply the criticism about characterization being poor more strongly to PR. they were far too predictable and generic in PR for me to enjoy, and i literally (not joking) guessed the events they'd face and be part of before they happened just going by the archtypes. it was a huge let down.

if you wanna talk monster screentime, sure, PR has more monsters, but they're dead in no time. side characters like cherno alpha and crimson typhoon are literally blown away in seconds to move things forward, even though their intro hypes them up to be a big deal. you'd expect that to mean the kaiju then would be strong, but nope. this was merely to prove how strong GD was when it destroyed them.

the ending of the movie, the sacrifice, was cliche as hell and again let me down. they could've done something different, but no: everyone had to die or make the bold sacrifice. it was totally unnecessary. why? what did it do for the already stereotypical characters? nothing. it made them all the more easy to file into a category, that's all it did for me.

the writing also miss fired a few times, particularly with the romance. yea, i get that romance wasn't a focus. i enjoyed that angle a lot, actually, but despite this they (writers) still set things up to fall into a romance, and it was obvious that's the route it was going. sure, it wasn't *only* romance, but romance was there and you could feel it. that again made things mundane, and turned me off.


the third part of the question, comparing films, yes. yes i think it's fair because despite being critical i'm fans of both films, and wanna see what more del toro can do with PR and its universe. we're talking about these movies as fans, and we shouldn't hide behind things like "it's apples and oranges, don't critique my favorite movie(s)". not that you're doing that at all, but this is a pet peeve of mine that i'm nipping in the bud right now.
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - bitch in space.

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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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I hate to be rude, but Three, are you high?
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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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Vatarian wrote:I hate to be rude, but Three, are you high?
That seems a bit harsh. The only point of his I see as questionable is claiming that PacRim advertised itself as something it's not. It was very straight forward in the advertising department.

The rest of his points I agree with or at least understand where he's coming from on them.

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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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The entire first paragraph of his last post had me cocking my head and squinting.

"Could've been a WW2 film?"

I missed the part where allied forces beat Hitler's ass with a cargo-boat and then cut his wings off when he carried them into space.
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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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three wrote: if you wanna talk monster screentime, sure, PR has more monsters, but they're dead in no time. side characters like cherno alpha and crimson typhoon are literally blown away in seconds to move things forward, even though their intro hypes them up to be a big deal. you'd expect that to mean the kaiju then would be strong, but nope. this was merely to prove how strong GD was when it destroyed them.
This part I actually agree with you on. I thought it was bullshit that Crimson and Cherno bit it so soon.

But on everything else we differ, particularly on the characters.
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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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Mr. Xeno wrote:
three wrote: if you wanna talk monster screentime, sure, PR has more monsters, but they're dead in no time. side characters like cherno alpha and crimson typhoon are literally blown away in seconds to move things forward, even though their intro hypes them up to be a big deal. you'd expect that to mean the kaiju then would be strong, but nope. this was merely to prove how strong GD was when it destroyed them.
This part I actually agree with you on. I thought it was bullshit that Crimson and Cherno bit it so soon.

But on everything else we differ, particularly on the characters.
The 2 1/2 minutes Cherno and Crimson are fighting are the most exciting of the movie and then it's over....so stupid.

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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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Vatarian wrote:The entire first paragraph of his last post had me cocking my head and squinting.

"Could've been a WW2 film?"

I missed the part where allied forces beat Hitler's ass with a cargo-boat and then cut his wings off when he carried them into space.
you're supposed to have enough sense to figure out what things you would and would not retain.

hitler wouldn't be commanding leatherback to attack omaha beach, either...
:pokeball: :cookie: :mechagodzilla: "I'm on a drug called Charlie Sheen" ~ Charlie Sheen

Gojira is:Very Hiroshima®
axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - bitch in space.

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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

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Vatarian wrote:The entire first paragraph of his last post had me cocking my head and squinting.

"Could've been a WW2 film?"
Well, a lot of the design aesthetics and world-building was based on WWII. Even though it's a giant monster movie, it's suppose to read as a war movie, just like how LPG reads like a disaster movie.

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Re: Godzilla 2014 or Pacific Rim

Post by Mr. Xeno »

A steam-punk WWII movie with giant robots?

I'd see it.
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