Expectations are everything

[HannibalBarca]

if you mean that figuratively, as in, him leading a human resolve against Godzilla (for lack of a better word) sorry, that doesn't make a lot of sense, either.

For general audiences, who weren't obsessively following every aspect of the film's development, it made perfect sense to expect that. That's what the trailers were selling. Even I was caught a bit off-guard by the fact that Bryan Cranston's character never even knew Godzilla existed throughout his entire time in the film, and I've been following this movie since the project was announced back in 2009.

In other words, he [Godzilla] can't drive the story or characterize (explain) events that happened in the film like a Batman or Superman can, or hell, any CBM hero you can possibly name, you need a human cast to do that, so that's why the humans always have a lot more screen time than the title monsters

I think there's an important distinction to be made between "driving" the story and providing context for it. Godzilla drives the story, for example, of G'54: Godzilla's actions are the centerpiece around which the entire movie rotates. Humans do not meaningfully drive the story of G'54 until the ending, when Serizawa and Ogata defeat Godzilla with the Oxygen Destroyer. Instead, the humans in G'54 provide a context for, or a connection to, Godzilla's actions: they engage the audience more because we see how Godzilla impacts individual people. Similarly, the MUTOs primarily drive the actions of G'14, until the last few minutes of the movie.

I came for Godzilla fighting monsters and kicking ass and I left happy.

Good for you and those like you. On the other hand, some people expected different things and left disappointed.

[Plexton]

In the sequel, it will turn out that Joe was revived by the MUTO's radiation, and now has advanced knowledge from an ancient civilization that visited Earth millions of years ago but was destroyed by King Ghidorah. Joe uses this knowledge to create Mechagodzilla, and fight Godzilla and Rodan. Then the Elias show up as representatives for Mothra and tell Joe and Ford about how King Ghidorah is coming down from space, and then Godzilla, Mothra, Rodan and Mechagodzilla all have to fight Ghidorah at the end.

...Well, while that would of course be awesome, I applaud the film makers for trying to keep things at least semi-realistic. Having said that, I would be totally on board for a sequel that ridiculous.

[Mr. Xeno]

^ We are fine with people not liking what we like, it's when they do it at a cynical level that's cartoonish or insane troll logic that we have a problem with I.E. "this movie sucks cause Godzilla is from the 60's and everything from the 60's was lame and is outdated."

While I agree that reviews like those are ridiculous, I've seen plenty of rational reviews that don't have any such wacko criticisms in them get just as dismissed by this fandom. And let's not pretend it doesn't go the other way either. For every person who trolls by saying the movie sucks because "Godzilla's cheesy '60s kids' crap" or whatever, there's someone who thinks this movie is fucking awesome because "The king is back, BITCH!"

The difference between Godzilla (or hell, any of the monsters) and say, Nolanverse Batman is Batman's actions drive the plot, and he can actually speak, so of course you would give him the majority of the screen time in the Nolan films, whereas Godzilla can only roar, stomp around, lay wreckage and not much else. In other words, he can't drive the story or characterize (explain) events that happened in the film like a Batman or Superman can, or hell, any CBM hero you can possibly name, you need a human cast to do that, so that's why the humans always have a lot more screen time than the title monsters (or hell, any of the monsters) in any kaiju film, not just this one, it's about as weak of an argument as saying Kong should've been given the bulk of the screen time over the "boring human characters" in the 2005 Peter Jackson film, or the Cloverfield monster for that matter.

And that's the thing: people (read: trolls) on IMDb act like it's exclusive to this one film, complaining about "boring humans having more screen time than Godzilla in his own movie" like all other kaiju films don't do the same.

Excuse you? Have you even seen a prior Godzilla film? If monsters can't drive the story, then tell me how the human characters did so in this movie? What killed Cranston's wife, causing the entire dynamic between Joe and Ford that's supposedly the focal point of the movie? What killed Cranston supposedly giving Ford new determination to save his family? What is Ford even so determined to save his family from? Why does the military bring in the nuke, causing the entire human presence during the third act? Other humans? Oh right, it's those monsters that can do nothing other than roar and stomp around. Gimme a break.

In the sequel, it will turn out that Joe was revived by the MUTO's radiation, and now has advanced knowledge from an ancient civilization that visited Earth millions of years ago but was destroyed by King Ghidorah. Joe uses this knowledge to create Mechagodzilla, and fight Godzilla and Rodan. Then the Elias show up as representatives for Mothra and tell Joe and Ford about how King Ghidorah is coming down from space, and then Godzilla, Mothra, Rodan and Mechagodzilla all have to fight Ghidorah at the end.

...Well, while that would of course be awesome, I applaud the film makers for trying to keep things at least semi-realistic. Having said that, I would be totally on board for a sequel that ridiculous.

I guess going all out crazy and being entertaining is... preferable (?) to trying to be a super dark, gritty, gut-wrenching drama that will be a self-proclaimed failure if it doesn't make you cry, and failing miserably at it, resulting in nothing but a boring piece of pretty camerawork.

[three]

...Well, while that would of course be awesome, I applaud the film makers for trying to keep things at least semi-realistic. Having said that, I would be totally on board for a sequel that ridiculous.

i would kind of hate that. we've got plenty of "ridiculous" in this franchise already. i do enjoy this new take. however, i would also not mind if another line was started at some point that harkened back to Godzilla's "ridiculous" or less realistic roots.

[ScouseGojira]

if this trilogy does well, you can bet your ass that will happen 5-6 years after the final installment.

[three]

if this trilogy does well, you can bet your ass that will happen 5-6 years after the final installment.

that's what i'm hoping for.

[gzilla46]

if this trilogy does well, you can bet your ass that will happen 5-6 years after the final installment.

that's what i'm hoping for.

That they reboot it again?

Well, I kind of knew that Godzilla was going to be built up from the get-go, but I had no idea they were going out their WAY to not show things like the airport fight or Las Vegas getting attacked by the MUTO.

[Space Hunter M]

I just want a darker sequel

Don't give the color timing consultants any ideas.

[kamilleblu]

I just want a darker sequel, and no more cutting to aftermaths of the fights.

This is easily the darkest film in the franchise, it even has the colorless films beat. Any darker and there's no point in making it.

[Vankor]

I just want a darker sequel, and no more cutting to aftermaths of the fights.

This is easily the darkest film in the franchise, it even has the colorless films beat. Any darker and there's no point in making it.

Have you seen Gojira? You clearly have no clue. The 2014 is NOT the darkest by a long shot.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

I just want a darker sequel, and no more cutting to aftermaths of the fights.

This is easily the darkest film in the franchise, it even has the colorless films beat. Any darker and there's no point in making it.

Have you seen Gojira? You clearly have no clue. The 2014 is NOT the darkest by a long shot.

I think he was joking about the Blu-Ray transfer.

[Vankor]

Whoops. I'm derp.

[KManX89]

^ We are fine with people not liking what we like, it's when they do it at a cynical level that's cartoonish or insane troll logic that we have a problem with I.E. "this movie sucks cause Godzilla is from the 60's and everything from the 60's was lame and is outdated."

While I agree that reviews like those are ridiculous, I've seen plenty of rational reviews that don't have any such wacko criticisms in them get just as dismissed by this fandom. And let's not pretend it doesn't go the other way either. For every person who trolls by saying the movie sucks because "Godzilla's cheesy '60s kids' crap" or whatever, there's someone who thinks this movie is skreeonking awesome because "The king is back, BITCH!"

The difference between Godzilla (or hell, any of the monsters) and say, Nolanverse Batman is Batman's actions drive the plot, and he can actually speak, so of course you would give him the majority of the screen time in the Nolan films, whereas Godzilla can only roar, stomp around, lay wreckage and not much else. In other words, he can't drive the story or characterize (explain) events that happened in the film like a Batman or Superman can, or hell, any CBM hero you can possibly name, you need a human cast to do that, so that's why the humans always have a lot more screen time than the title monsters (or hell, any of the monsters) in any kaiju film, not just this one, it's about as weak of an argument as saying Kong should've been given the bulk of the screen time over the "boring human characters" in the 2005 Peter Jackson film, or the Cloverfield monster for that matter.

And that's the thing: people (read: trolls) on IMDb act like it's exclusive to this one film, complaining about "boring humans having more screen time than Godzilla in his own movie" like all other kaiju films don't do the same.

Excuse you? Have you even seen a prior Godzilla film? If monsters can't drive the story, then tell me how the human characters did so in this movie? What killed Cranston's wife, causing the entire dynamic between Joe and Ford that's supposedly the focal point of the movie? What killed Cranston supposedly giving Ford new determination to save his family? What is Ford even so determined to save his family from? Why does the military bring in the nuke, causing the entire human presence during the third act? Other humans? Oh right, it's those monsters that can do nothing other than roar and stomp around. Gimme a break.

In the sequel, it will turn out that Joe was revived by the MUTO's radiation, and now has advanced knowledge from an ancient civilization that visited Earth millions of years ago but was destroyed by King Ghidorah. Joe uses this knowledge to create Mechagodzilla, and fight Godzilla and Rodan. Then the Elias show up as representatives for Mothra and tell Joe and Ford about how King Ghidorah is coming down from space, and then Godzilla, Mothra, Rodan and Mechagodzilla all have to fight Ghidorah at the end.

...Well, while that would of course be awesome, I applaud the film makers for trying to keep things at least semi-realistic. Having said that, I would be totally on board for a sequel that ridiculous.

I guess going all out crazy and being entertaining is... preferable (?) to trying to be a super dark, gritty, gut-wrenching drama that will be a self-proclaimed failure if it doesn't make you cry, and failing miserably at it, resulting in nothing but a boring piece of pretty camerawork.

Read my post again, I said HE can't drive the story. The whole movie's focus was the rise of the MUTOs and how the military dealt with them, Godzilla was merely the response. PS, your post perfectly described the MUTO, and not the monster in question (Godzilla).

And it's true: the humans, not the monsters, are what provide story depth in these kinds of films. Take out Godzilla, and you still have the military vs the MUTOs, take out the MUTOs, and you essentially have Godzilla vs. the military with no other perceived threat, take out the human characters, though, and you essentially have a 2 hour long fight scene between Godzilla and the MUTOs with no build up or backstory on the events leading up to it (the 1954 scene, the 1999 Janjira plant scene). Yeah, that's loads of fun.

Same thing with King Kong. Take out Kong, and you still have a movie about a bunch of actors shooting a film together, but take out the humans, and I'm not so sure you even have a 2.5 hour long movie with an ape running around since Ann Darrow's presence is ultimately what drew him in the first place. In other words, you probably wouldn't even have a film to begin with. Cloverfield: take out the Cloverfield monster (Clover?), and you still have a found footage film consisting of segments of teenagers partying, sleeping around (Rob and Beth), drinking, whatever, take out the human leads, and you just have an hour and a half of Clover? thwomping around while the military shoots at it (in vein, of course), and all suspenseful found footage shots with him being hidden would be removed, meaning it would also remove a lot of the tension/teasing/build up from the film. The rescue scenes also don't happen without the human leads in that film (Rob, Beth, Hud, Lily and Marlena), nor the reaction at the end highlighting the impact of Clover?'s devastation (where Beth and Rob give their testimony, then get buried), meaning another layer of drama and tension is thereby removed from that film without them.

So there you go.

[Mr. Xeno]

Read my post again, I said HE can't drive the story. The whole movie's focus was the rise of the MUTOs and how the military dealt with them, Godzilla was merely the response. PS, your post perfectly described the MUTO, and not the monster in question (Godzilla).

And it's true: the humans, not the monsters, are what provide story depth in these kinds of films. Take out Godzilla, and you still have the military vs the MUTOs, take out the MUTOs, and you essentially have Godzilla vs. the military with no other perceived threat, take out the human characters, though, and you essentially have a 2 hour long fight scene between Godzilla and the MUTOs with no build up or backstory on the events leading up to it (the 1954 scene, the 1999 Janjira plant scene). Yeah, that's loads of fun.

Same thing with King Kong. Take out Kong, and you still have a movie about a bunch of actors shooting a film together, but take out the humans, and I'm not so sure you even have a 2.5 hour long movie with an ape running around since Ann Darrow's presence is ultimately what drew him in the first place. In other words, you probably wouldn't even have a film to begin with. Cloverfield: take out the Cloverfield monster (Clover?), and you still have a found footage film consisting of segments of teenagers partying, sleeping around (Rob and Beth), drinking, whatever, take out the human leads, and you just have an hour and a half of Clover? thwomping around while the military shoots at it (in vein, of course), and all suspenseful found footage shots with him being hidden would be removed, meaning it would also remove a lot of the tension/teasing/build up from the film. The rescue scenes also don't happen without the human leads in that film (Rob, Beth, Hud, Lily and Marlena), nor the reaction at the end highlighting the impact of Clover?'s devastation (where Beth and Rob give their testimony, then get buried), meaning another layer of drama and tension is thereby removed from that film without them.

So there you go.

First of all, what you're pointing out (Godzilla didn't drive the story in G14) is actually a major problem I have with that film, as it did nothing but render Godzilla a cheap plot device that's going to get old really fast in the sequels.

Secondly, you said that "Godzilla can only roar, stomp around, lay wreckage and not much else." How do those parameters NOT fit the MUTOs? Because they can also lay eggs?

Third of all, the examples you gave of King Kong and Cloverfield defeat the point you're making with them. Yes, without King Kong, that movie's literally just about a film crew. Yes, without Clover, that movie is literally just about a bunch of partying teenagers. That's the whole point. Without the monsters, there is literally nothing happening, either, because there's no interesting conflict. You even said:

and all suspenseful found footage shots with him being hidden would be removed, meaning it would also remove a lot of the tension/teasing/build up from the film. The rescue scenes also don't happen without the human leads in that film (Rob, Beth, Hud, Lily and Marlena), nor the reaction at the end highlighting the impact of Clover?'s devastation (where Beth and Rob give their testimony, then get buried), meaning another layer of drama and tension is thereby removed from that film without them.

Guess what also won't happen without the monster in that movie? The very thing you just listed. BOTH humans and monsters are necessary to the story. Take out the giant monsters in G2014, and absolutely nothing happens, as no story even exists in the first place to be told. The actions of the monsters are of their own, without the push of a human side of the story. I've even heard people say that that's one of the main themes of G2014: the giant monsters completely ignore humans because said monsters are too large/powerful to even notice us puny humans.

Take out the human characters, and yes, we're left with a boring story about monsters wandering around. But take out the monsters, and there is literally no story at all. They're BOTH necessary.

And fourth, could you please not quote the ENTIRE post next time? Half of it was unrelated things you weren't even responding to.

[Jiragozira14]

Read my post again, I said HE can't drive the story. The whole movie's focus was the rise of the MUTOs and how the military dealt with them, Godzilla was merely the response. PS, your post perfectly described the MUTO, and not the monster in question (Godzilla).

And it's true: the humans, not the monsters, are what provide story depth in these kinds of films. Take out Godzilla, and you still have the military vs the MUTOs, take out the MUTOs, and you essentially have Godzilla vs. the military with no other perceived threat, take out the human characters, though, and you essentially have a 2 hour long fight scene between Godzilla and the MUTOs with no build up or backstory on the events leading up to it (the 1954 scene, the 1999 Janjira plant scene). Yeah, that's loads of fun.

Same thing with King Kong. Take out Kong, and you still have a movie about a bunch of actors shooting a film together, but take out the humans, and I'm not so sure you even have a 2.5 hour long movie with an ape running around since Ann Darrow's presence is ultimately what drew him in the first place. In other words, you probably wouldn't even have a film to begin with. Cloverfield: take out the Cloverfield monster (Clover?), and you still have a found footage film consisting of segments of teenagers partying, sleeping around (Rob and Beth), drinking, whatever, take out the human leads, and you just have an hour and a half of Clover? thwomping around while the military shoots at it (in vein, of course), and all suspenseful found footage shots with him being hidden would be removed, meaning it would also remove a lot of the tension/teasing/build up from the film. The rescue scenes also don't happen without the human leads in that film (Rob, Beth, Hud, Lily and Marlena), nor the reaction at the end highlighting the impact of Clover?'s devastation (where Beth and Rob give their testimony, then get buried), meaning another layer of drama and tension is thereby removed from that film without them.

So there you go.

Thing is, though, that while there's a plot involving Godzilla, Femuto and Hokmuto, they aren't the central characters of the story; Joe, Ford and Serizawa are the central characters, while Godzilla and the MUTOs are the devices that kick the plot into motion. We don't follow the kaiju in the story, we follow the things we as a species relate to the best; our own kind.

We can't relate to the struggles of a 105-foot tall irradiated saurian as well as we can to a human, so that's why kaiju films have human elements in them; to engage the viewer. We won't see Godzilla's inner thoughts or the things that the MUTO pair thinks, because the story the film presents us isn't focused on them; that's the way it goes and that's the way it will always go.

But, at the same time, Godzilla was never needed on-screen to drive the story along for most of the film; he almost never has in films where he fights other monsters; the only exceptions being the Heisei films, Godzilla 2000, GMK, the Kiryu duology and Final Wars (and even in those cases, the story chugs along without him; Godzilla just accelerates the story). Most of the time, Godzilla's a plot device that pops in at the last act to fight the enemy monster and then return to the sea; that's how it's been for 60 years at this point, and that's how it'll always be.

We can't fault this movie for supposedly pushing it's title character out of focus when VS films, especially ones with new foes, always emphasize the enemy monster, in the title or in the plot; Godzilla's always been a plot device, remember, and he always will be in the films where he fights other monsters.

[KManX89]

Yes, I know monsters are what provide the basic conflict in these types of films, what I meant was, you need humans to keep the story progressing. Yes, you had the humans trying to get the nuke, disarm it, Ford hunting the MUTOs to avenge his dad, the human presence in the third act, and all that other stuff in G14, but most of that doesn't happen with the monsters getting the majority of the screen time in the actual film, it's the human scenes that provide most of the story developments (explain things that happened in the film and the events leading up to it, how they react to said situations, provide characterizations, etc., etc.), you can't have the monsters have the majority of the screentime in these kinds of movies, or else it would just be 1.5 hours of monsters tearing shit up (which gets real tiring real fast, see: the Bayformers films) and only a half an hour worth of actual story/character development, plotless drivel basically, hell, this pretty much ties in to the "not much else" part at the end of my last post (as "not much else"=/=nothing necessarily).

And as for the "what ifs", yeah, just a movie with a bunch of actors shooting a film and young adults/teens chatting and doing found footage skits may not sound all that appealing on its own, but at least it's something, tons of explosions (just nonstop monster destruction scenes basically)=/=any semblance of story or characterization.

[RumbleJapan]

You dont necessarily need humans to drive a story. In fact, you can have the film's entire cast be gargantuan mutant freaks. The key aspect of making a film with a decipherable plot is implementing a human element because humans can only understand human things. In this case, those mutant freaks would have to be highly anthropomorphized in order for the film to progress story-wise and this can often impose itself as an obstacle in the cinematic arts. Here, you have a film about an ancient terrestrial life form that poses as a hazard to humankind. Human-like kaiju akin to the Showa films wouldn't do the film justice given its projected tone. The best solution is to add in humans because most, if not all, people would agree that human involvement is a feasible aspect of a situation as dire as this. It doesnt seem crazy that humans should get caught up on this, so thats why humans have such a prominent role in the film. You look at past Godzilla films where the title character stole a majority of the screen time and often find those films to be clunky and lacking real substance to a story because giant monsters don't progress the film as well as humans do, especially in a genre like this. Just my two cents. I'm glad the silver screen wasn't spammed with Godzilla's face. Made me appreciate the film more and his lack of onscreen appearances imbued some sort of ambiguity and mysticism--which is incredible given how large they made Godzilla in this film. Not a perfect movie, but definitely satisfiable.

[DrBreakfastMachine]

I was honestly very excited for the movie the trailers were advertising- Godzilla as the destroyer of worlds, a living punishment on mankind for our actions, all that, and when I saw the actual film the first time I was a little put off by how very different it was from what I was expecting.

Watching it again knowing what kind of movie it was, I understand why they did what they did. They obviously want this to be a big franchise, because that's how Hollywood works these days, and a franchise needs a hero. It would be more difficult to build a string of sequels for modern audiences centered around a villain, so obviously for the sake of longer-term profit they chose to make Godzilla a hero, or at least an anti-hero. In the end, while I might have enjoyed a movie that cast Godzilla as a real threat again (GMK remains, in my opinion, the quintessential Godzilla movie) more than what we got, I think making him a late Showa-esque good guy has done more to ensure that the series continues, and keeping Godzilla alive for future generations should always be our number one wish.

[ScouseGojira]

So, am I in a minority, a majority or is it split down the middle when I say I was delighted with how this film turned out and would class it right up there with the very best Godzilla movies?

[KaijuFiend]

So, am I in a minority, a majority or is it split down the middle when I say I was delighted with how this film turned out and would class it right up there with the very best Godzilla movies?

I'm in the same category as you. It is my personal opinion that this is the best Godzilla film since the original.

*Prepares for harsh backlash due to the statement I just made*