Final Wars: Why all the Hate?

[Legion1979]

Uh huh, CA. I'm sure what Toho got out of that film was exactly what they wanted from the get-go. Yup.

You keep believing that.

[Captain Aktion]

I do believe that. Now whether or not what they wanted turned out to be successful or be received in the way they wanted it to be is another story...I don't get why these are difficult distinctions to make. I know it's easier for you when you have a whipping boy, Legion, but there aren't straw-men behind everything you don't like. Sometimes business is ACTUALLY business.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Well that's a lot to quote, so I'll just write a few simple responses here...

I guess you missed the part with Ultraman GXG. Are you then saying the film has a dark and serious tone like The Dark Knight?

I don't care about your Ultraman example, because it has no effect on someone who doesn't know anything about Ultraman.

I never said that the film has a dark and serious tone. I'm just saying that the film doesn't have a light tone either. Morbid and non-caring =/= light.

Really? The 'bump-fests' resemble the Final Wars fights?

Those fights resemble the fights in GFW more than the fights in the Showa era, that's for sure. Un-ordinary smacks and hits, beam wars, etc.

The majority of those fights use monsters who are immobile (not to bash them of course, I quite like most of them,) while the Final Wars fights everyone is quick. There was never a 'slow' fight. Well, besides the final fight with Keizer Ghidorah.

Size and mobility has nothing to do with it.

Also, if the fights in GFW were so quick, then they resemble the Showa era fights even less. There were little to no quick fights in the Showa era. Most of them took their time. The fights in GFW were "blink and you miss them" fast.

It's a reference/tribute (never mind the fact they're called Xilians) because the Showa era was famous for its many alien invasions. While the next two eras dropped it, this film brought it back to light.

...That doesn't mean jack shit. It could very easily be referencing other alien invasion films that weren't Godzilla related, like War Of The Worlds or Independence Day. Just because it has an alien invasion in it, does not suddenly make the film a reference to the Showa era, let alone a tribute.

Also, I've heard the Futurians from Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah referred to as aliens, as they are something that is beyond our comprehension, unknown to us and have far superior technology. So I would say that the Heisei series has it's own alien invasion.

Also, Godzilla 2000 is about an alien invasion.

I think this film was mimicking the tone of the Showa era.

If it's trying to mimick the tone of the Showa era, then it's doing a terrible job at it. As I've previously said, the tone of GFW is morbid and non-caring. It kills people off like nobody's business, and it doesn't care about those that it kills off. The Showa era doesn't do that.

.but does that stop it from people considering it to be a modern Showa film?

...Yes!

For one thing, GFW is far from a modern Showa film. Not even close to one. Second, if it the film doesn't pay tribute to the Showa era, then it's even less like a modern Showa film, especially in this day and age. Third, anyone who thinks that GFW is a modern Showa film really needs to analyze the reoccurring themes, characters, stories and elements of the Showa era, and then compare it to GFW. Anyone who does this would take two seconds to realize that GFW is basically one giant middle finger to the Showa era. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call that a tribute at all.

As for the other argument that broke out, as I've said before, I would say that both Kitamura and Toho are equally to blame for the failure that was GFW. Kitamura is to blame for not realizing the situation that he was put in, and trying to make something that wasn't like his last few films. Instead, we got the same film from him that we've gotten in the past, only with a few monsters added in. Toho is to blame for putting Kitamura in that situation and not having him on a tighter leash. Toho put more money into this then just about any other film before, so you would really think they would want to make sure Kitamura didn't screw it up. Kitamura screwed up for being in charge of this crappy film, and Toho screwed up for not realizing it sooner and not doing something about it.

[shinmattiathekaiju]

He's comparing GFW to the showa era because of Godzilla's shenaningas i think.

[Destroyer]

Example of how violent Ultraman can get. http://youtu.be/VpfGPLgGBeM

The Futurians are from the future, they're still Earthlings. And 2000 is a bit of a stretch since it's just Orga. But I'm talking humanoid alien invasions.

Well I'm sure the people that DO consider it to be a tribute are just as big of a Godzilla fan and know the Showa era well. I still consider it to be a tribute nonetheless. I get everything you're saying, but some just view it and think of the 60's and 70's in mind, that's just the way it works.

[shinmattiathekaiju]

Example of how violent Ultraman can get. http://youtu.be/VpfGPLgGBeM

Woah! Never saw this hardcore version of the Muppets.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Example of how violent Ultraman can get. http://youtu.be/VpfGPLgGBeM

You're still missing the point. GFW does not have a light tone. It's tone is morbid and somewhat dark.

The Futurians are from the future, they're still Earthlings.

That's not the point. They're still beyond our comprehension, have futuristic technology that we can't even begin to understand, and they're basically unknown to us in every possible way. That's the definition of an alien.

Just because something comes from earth, doesn't mean it's not an alien. You could very easily say that someone who isn't the same ethnicity as you is an alien. They're unknown to you and come from a different place.

And 2000 is a bit of a stretch since it's just Orga. But I'm talking humanoid alien invasions.

Orga's an alien, who wants to invade earth. That's an alien invasion.

And no, you never said humanoid alien invasions. You just said alien invasion.

Well I'm sure the people that DO consider it to be a tribute are just as big of a Godzilla fan and know the Showa era well.

Obviously not, if they haven't analyzed the Showa era's various aspects, themes, characters, stories, etc. Any one who has done that could very easily come to the conclusion that GFW is in no way a tribute to the Showa era. It really isn't that hard to do.

I still consider it to be a tribute nonetheless.

Then you really haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying, or anything that's been going on in this topic. Congratulations, you're impossible and stubborn!

I get everything you're saying, but some just view it and think of the 60's and 70's in mind, that's just the way it works.

Hate to break it you, but the people that think that aren't thinking it all the way through.

[Destroyer]

OK, so now you're saying it's somewhat dark when a few posts ago you said

I never said that the film has a dark and serious tone.

Perhaps 'spacemen' would be the better term then. The Showa era was famous for its many humanoid invasions, which would not get repeated until Final Wars.

Or maybe cause ya know, that's how one views the film and its relation to the Showa era. Maybe they have analyzed the Showa era, maybe they view it differently than you. If a lot of fans say it's a tribute, are you saying every single one of them has no clue what the Showa era is about? That's interesting.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

OK, so now you're saying it's somewhat dark when a few posts ago you said

I never said that the film has a dark and serious tone.

Yup. It has a somewhat dark tone. There's a difference between a dark tone and somewhat dark done.

Perhaps 'spacemen' would be the better term then. The Showa era was famous for its many humanoid invasions, which would not get repeated until Final Wars.

...Ugh. Seriously, stop doing this. This very annoying and it really doesn't help your point. You're trying to rework your argument by rephrasing words that no one has every used before for these kinds of things.

Also, the Showa era is not famous for it's alien invasions. It's famous for a lot of things, but not alien invasions.

Or maybe cause ya know, that's how one views the film and its relation to the Showa era.

If they think that, they're not seeing the full picture.

Maybe they have analyzed the Showa era, maybe they view it differently than you.

The themes, characters, stories, etc., are all very clear for the Showa era. There really isn't much room for interpretation and variety among analysis. And it's very clearly different from GFW.

If a lot of fans say it's a tribute, are you saying every single one of them has no clue what the Showa era is about? That's interesting.

If a lot of fans say it's a tribute, then those fans need a new definition of "tribute", and need to really look at the Showa era as a whole and what it stands for.

[Godzilla 2000]

People need to learn the difference between "dark and serious" and "violent and graphic."

The early Ultraman shows were usually violent and sometimes very graphic, but it didnt have a dark tone.

Godzilla, on the other hand, is usually portrayed in a more serious manner, but is almost never terribly violent or graphic.


GFW, though, was TOO serious.

[/mini-rant]

[Godzilla 1995]

GFW, though, was TOO serious.

And in the end, turned out to be rediculous. Wierd how things turn out, eh?

[Zentenk]

GFW was.. a big let down for me honestly. I will watch it again here shortly since I haven't seen it since right after release. It was too over-the-top. It had people fighting that I could give two flying hedorah craps about, I wanted to see more of Godzilla. Instead they rushed it, like they had to fast forward to the end.

It is kind of like watching a PPV UFC fight of a much anticipated bout between the top two for a championship. Then the fight doesn't last but 10 seconds. Sure it was a sweet highlight knockout but, I wanted to see more. Just like I wanted to see more of how this Godzilla acts, his behaviors, his agenda. You get almost none of this, I didn't get any build up or attachment or much suspense, because you keep getting interupted by flying kicks and lasers.

Sorry if I don't make much sense, my wireless router just quit working and I'm skeeeoonking mad.

[Planetxman]

Was anyone else at The Hollywood Premiere ? I was so dissapointed. I was the first person on line in the theater and one of the first ones out. I was interviewed by a Japanese reporter and I don't think she understood my answer.
I said there are only three things I did not like about the movie. The Beginning, the Middle and The End.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-q38yXqxEM

[TheSecondComing]

Was anyone else at The Hollywood Premiere ? I was so dissapointed. I was the first person on line in the theater and one of the first ones out. I was interviewed by a Japanese reporter and I don't think she understood my answer.
I said there are only three things I did not like about the movie. The Beginning, the Middle and The End.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-q38yXqxEM

I was there too. I was also interviewed but I never heard about what happened to the footage. We could be celebrities in Japan and not even know it.

[Planetxman]

I was there too. I was also interviewed but I never heard about what happened to the footage. We could be celebrities in Japan and not even know it.

I heard that many of us were on TV in Japan. I know that at least some of my friends were on the Japanese R2 dvd.

[Sydney Aradi]

Alright. Watched the film (first time I've ever bothered watching the film since three years ago) today with a group of friends for a Monster film party. While I still feel that GFW is a very and I mean VERY flawed film, it can be a hoot to watch with a group of friends.

[Zentenk]

Alright. Watched the film (first time I've ever bothered watching the film since three years ago) today with a group of friends for a Monster film party. While I still feel that GFW is a very and I mean VERY flawed film, it can be a hoot to watch with a group of friends.

Is it a fun movie? Yes it is...

Is it a great Godzilla movie? Is it what you hoped to see for a "Final War"? Heeelllllllzzzzz NO!

Godzilla 98 was a better movie.

[Goji]

Alright. Watched the film (first time I've ever bothered watching the film since three years ago) today with a group of friends for a Monster film party. While I still feel that GFW is a very and I mean VERY flawed film, it can be a hoot to watch with a group of friends.

Was alcohol involved?

[Giga Kaiju]

I agree, although it is one of the "Worst" movies of Godzilla, it can be entertaining while
spending time with friends...(Alcohol is Optional).

[Sydney Aradi]

Alright. Watched the film (first time I've ever bothered watching the film since three years ago) today with a group of friends for a Monster film party. While I still feel that GFW is a very and I mean VERY flawed film, it can be a hoot to watch with a group of friends.

Was alcohol involved?

Oh hell yeah there was alcohol invloved