Final Wars: Why all the Hate?

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Final Wars might not be Inception level of movie making quality, but the last thing it makes you feel is bored.

Actually, that is the first thing I feel. Being bored. That and disappointment. In fact, that pretty much describes exactly how I feel about GFW: Boring and disappointing.

It's one of the most fast paced films I've ever seen.

I will say that it's the fastest paced film I've ever seen...but that is FAR from a good thing. The pace is so fast, that if you blink, you'll miss something.

Having a fast-paced film is not a good thing, dude.

just when you're starting to lose interest, they pull one of the most epic scenes in Godzilla history: Rodan attacks NYC.

...How is that scene "epic"? Lawrence Of Arabia is epic. The Ten Commandments is epic. Ben-Hur is epic. Rodan attacking a city, something he's done before many times, is not epic.

Hell, that's not even a good scene. The beginning with the "cop" and "pimp" (I use quotations, because I seriously doubt that Toho knows what how a real cop and pimp act) instantly makes that scene a comical one, because now you want to see people die, because those two make you root for the monster. And that's not good when we're suppose to take this film seriously.

I still get that "wow" feeling every time I hear his roar and then the airplane blows up.

...*facepalm*

And when Godzilla awakens, it's nonstop action.

...As Godzilla 2000 said near the beginning of the thread, "...for 12 minutes."

The action after Godzilla awakens is so short that it's hardly worth mentioning. It basically comes off like the filmmakers intended those scenes to be filler/padding until the Gotengo gets back to Tokyo, so that Kitamura could film more Kung-Fu.

[Destroyer]

I guess my points made too much sense to retort to....

*Forever Alone*
No, I'm just juggling responses.

Final Wars might not be Inception level of movie making quality, but the last thing it makes you feel is bored. It's one of the most fast paced films I've ever seen. Like, just when you're starting to lose interest, they pull one of the most epic scenes in Godzilla history: Rodan attacks NYC. I still get that "wow" feeling every time I hear his roar and then the airplane blows up. And when Godzilla awakens, it's nonstop action. Saying it's a bad film is fine, but not calling it entertaining.....that's truly something else.

So is Inception your highwater mark on what movies can possibly be...?

Also, GFW had God awful pacing, for the sole fact that you just want Godzilla to appear so badly so you can stop cringing at every single thing in the film. The wait is unbearable. Rodan attacking NYC is not one of GFW's best effects, as the suit didn;t mathc up with the CG around it well. Its also ruined completely by one scene preceding it involving black people.

Just because a film has non stop action doesn;t disqualify it from being called bad. People are so stupid these days that they can't decopher good action from bad action. There's action like in Transformers of GFW that's uninvolving and stupid, and then there's action in Inception, for instance, that's involving, creative, and suspenseful. Just because something is actiony does not mean its immune to criticism.

I know what you mean, but I do understand what the difference is. (I've been reviewing movies/comics for awhile on another site.) I'll repeat what I just said, people can call Final Wars a bad film, but it is very entertaining. It's one of those films were you just don't lose interest. And when Godzilla does come back, your interest level peaks up.

[Svitska Donkun]

I know what you mean, but I do understand what the difference is. (I've been reviewing movies/comics for awhile on another site.) I'll repeat what I just said, people can call Final Wars a bad film, but it is very entertaining. It's one of those films were you just don't lose interest. And when Godzilla does come back, your interest level peaks up.

If you "know what I mean", then you'd be agreeing with me...

The film never lost my interest because it never had it. All I wanted was to see a decent Godzilla movie, but I ended up wanting to kill myself waiting for Godzilla to be relevant, then being immensely disappointed when he did. And there must be some truth to this, as the majority of fans will agree. Films need to be entertaining to be good. Being good and entertaining are not two separate things. Most people were not entertained.

Let the record show that I'm not saying its dumb to like GFW, but you like it for dumb reasons.

Also, that website you mentioned must be simply terrifying.

[HeiseiGodzilla117]

It's one of those films were you just don't lose interest. And when Godzilla does come back, your interest level peaks up.

Maybe YOU don't lose interest and YOUR interest piques when Godzilla is gone. But, obviously, that's not how most of us feel about it. Everyone has given you legitimate complaints they have with the movie, but you still try to defend those faults.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I'll repeat what I just said, people can call Final Wars a bad film, but it is very entertaining. It's one of those films were you just don't lose interest. And when Godzilla does come back, your interest level peaks up.

I think we've already explained why GFW is not entertaining multiple times.

The fights are WAY too short to enjoy (blink and you'll miss them) and most of them don't have any relevance in the long run. Why should we even care about what's going on with Godzilla when he doesn't do anything big for the story until the meteor shows up?

And yeah, I do lose interest, because the characters are so bland and uninteresting, that I really don't care what happens to them. If I have no reason to care for the main characters, then the action scenes have no meaning.

The only thing that Godzilla's return provides is a look at something else that is just as uninteresting as the human plot.

[Destroyer]

I know what you mean, but I do understand what the difference is. (I've been reviewing movies/comics for awhile on another site.) I'll repeat what I just said, people can call Final Wars a bad film, but it is very entertaining. It's one of those films were you just don't lose interest. And when Godzilla does come back, your interest level peaks up.

If you "know what I mean", then you'd be agreeing with me...

The film never lost my interest because it never had it. All I wanted was to see a decent Godzilla movie, but I ended up wanting to kill myself waiting for Godzilla to be relevant, then being immensely disappointed when he did. And there must be some truth to this, as the majority of fans will agree. Films need to be entertaining to be good. Being good and entertaining are not two separate things. Most people were not entertained.

Let the record show that I'm not saying its dumb to like GFW, but you like it for dumb reasons.

Also, that website you mentioned must be simply terrifying.

I like the film cause it was a fun monster romp with great monster scenes, a great soundtrack, and it was always on the move. (A good thing in my opinion.) I wouldn't call them dumb reasons. I liked Final Wars, all of you guys make great statements, and I will continue to defend the film, but in the end, the majority doesn't like it, while some, like myself, enjoy it every time.

Never have I felt so alone in a forum debate, haha.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I like the film cause it was a fun monster romp

...Isn't not about the monsters, though. It's about bland human characters. They're the main focus of the story, due.

with great monster scenes

*facepalm*

I really don't see how you can think that the monster scenes in GFW are "great", when there are better monster scenes in All Monsters Attack, let alone amazing Godzilla films like Mothra vs. Godzilla, King Kong vs. Godzilla and parts of Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah.

a great soundtrack

Yes, a soundtrack that has probably three or four pieces of hit-and-miss music that it just keeps playing on repeat...wait...

and it was always on the move

I'll say it again...How is that a good thing?

I wouldn't call them dumb reasons

Almost everything you've said up to the this point has been pointed out by at least one of us and has been shown what's wrong with it. For once I agree with Svitska, the reasons for why you like GFW are dumb.

[Svitska Donkun]

I like the film cause it was a fun monster romp with great monster scenes, a great soundtrack, and it was always on the move.

I don't get it. You keep saying we make great points, yet you keep saying the same flat statements over and over again without anything to back them up. You're not so much defending GFW, as you are spamming it.

Never have I felt so alone in a forum debate, haha.

This surprises me.

[Destroyer]

...Isn't not about the monsters, though. It's about bland human characters. They're the main focus of the story, due.

I know it's not ABOUT the monsters, but it was still great to see them all under one film.

*facepalm*

I really don't see how you can think that the monster scenes in GFW are "great", when there are better monster scenes in All Monsters Attack, let alone amazing Godzilla films like Mothra vs. Godzilla, King Kong vs. Godzilla and parts of Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah.

Rodan attacks NYC, the rise of Gigan, Monster X's transformation into Keiser Ghidorah. The fights were incredible with the effects, Mothra vs. Gigan combined with the dramatic music was plain epic.

Yes, a soundtrack that has probably three or four pieces of hit-and-miss music that it just keeps playing on repeat...wait...

All of the songs were good, they only repeated certain jingles. They made the film more energetic. (Yes, I also loved that SUM 41 song they used.)

I'll say it again...How is that a good thing?

Sometimes it's not, but for me and monster movies, it's good. I don't like movies that drag on. (I'm looking at you King Kong.)

Almost everything you've said up to the this point has been pointed out by at least one of us and has been shown what's wrong with it. For once I agree with Svitska, the reasons for why you like GFW are dumb.

Sigh, I've attempted explaining my position, but I'll just say this: You dislike Final Wars, while I enjoy it.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I know it's not ABOUT the monsters, but it was still great to see them all under one film.

...What?

*sigh* Just because there's a bunch of monsters in it does not make it great. That's like saying if you put every single Marvel and DC superhero in one film, but they make the film about some unknown kid whose having problems with his family, that it makes the film great anyway. That is some seriously messed up logic, dude.

Rodan attacks NYC, the rise of Gigan, Monster X's transformation into Keiser Ghidorah.

...How are any of those "great"? Rodan's scene is ruined by the "cop" and "pimp". Gigan's is so fast that it comes off the like the filmmakers don't give a damn. And Monster X's transformation is just weird and awkward.

The fights were incredible with the effects

...They really weren't. The effects in Godzilla 2000 were way better than any effect shot in GFW. Hell, I'd take the effects of 60s Godzilla films over the effects of GFW. At least those looked realistic.

Mothra vs. Gigan combined with the dramatic music was plain epic.

As I said, there are better monster scenes in All Monsters Attack, which I don't even like. Then there's other monster scenes in films like Ghidrah, The Three-Headed Monster, Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla or Son Of Godzilla. They easily blow the monster scenes from GFW out of the freakin' water.

Sometimes it's not, but for me and monster movies, it's good. I don't like movies that drag on. (I'm looking at you King Kong.)

There's a difference between "Fast paced action sequences" and "So fast that if I blink I'll miss it", you know. GFW falls into the second category.

Sigh, I've attempted explaining my position, but I'll just say this: You dislike Final Wars, while I enjoy it.

As Svitska said, all you've done is make the same points over and over again, usually something like "It has great monster scenes" or "It has lots of monsters in it", yet never back them up. So, I'll say that no, you haven't attempted to explain your position.

You say that you do reviews on another website, yet you fail to do what film reviewers attempt to do in every single review: Explain why something is good or bad. All you've done is say the same statements, all of which have been rebuked. If you really want to defend GFW, then back up your statements.

[KaneLocke]

Ya know what?

When the vast majority of people -who almost never agree on something- and you are the only one on the other side of that, Destroyer, you may just want to reevaluate your stance. No, not to become a blind sheep... but because if *I* am agreeing with basically everything GxG has said, there's obviously something more to it than just blindly hating the film.

Stop defending yourself, D. No one is saying you can't like it. But the film is crap.

[Biollante]

Ya know what?

When the vast majority of people -who almost never agree on something- and you are the only one on the other side of that, Destroyer, you may just want to reevaluate your stance. No, not to become a blind sheep

But that's exactly what he would be doing...

[Chris55]

How many "I don't get the GFW hate" threads have we had on TK anyway? They seem to spring up every few months or so and most of the time by someone new to the board.

[Cimmerian Dragon]

The fights were incredible with the effects, Mothra vs. Gigan combined with the dramatic music was plain epic.

The effects were probably the worst part of the whole mess outside of the script. Look at the absolutely incredible SFX work in Tokyo S.O.S., and then compare it to the slipshod, pixel-visible CGI or the lightwieght Monster X maneuvers (looks like he weighs 200 pounds, not several tons), or the terrible matte work (like the pimp getting blown away by the fireball in NYC). Yes, some of the effects were decent, but they were not up to the standards of the preceeding film, and that is solely the fault of the director, who squandered the largest effects budget of the entire series trying to cram too much irrelevant bullshit into the movie, and so most of the effects on screen still look unfinished, as though the crew ran out of time and money.

Listen, just so you don't feel "alone", I'll admit that I enjoyed the sections of the movie featuring Godzilla (and Gordon, can't help it), and anyone can tell you that I have defended that 30% of the picture in the past as being stupid fun. However, that does not redeem the film as a whole, nor make it on-the-whole a fun film. I can fast-forward through nearly 3 quarters of the movie, and still see everything that I didn't find too much fault with.

[King Caesar]

I like this movie! Okay? I said it. It was a nice way to see a cast of monsters that probably wouldn't have returned for another who-knows-how-many years. The Rodan attack scene is pretty cool, I'm not gonna lie. It's not on the scale of "The Ten Commandments" or "Ben Hur" per say, but it is memorable. That said, it does have it's flaws. The lack of a title character having that much screentime is a bit of a problem. On the bright side, there's always Don Frye, who kicks ass and doesn't bother taking names. At least the villains aren't as bland as the Kilaakians in the look-a-like, DAM. They have some personality.

My final verdict: Three Don Fryes out of a possible Five.

[Destroyer]

As Svitska said, all you've done is make the same points over and over again, usually something like "It has great monster scenes" or "It has lots of monsters in it", yet never back them up. So, I'll say that no, you haven't attempted to explain your position.

You say that you do reviews on another website, yet you fail to do what film reviewers attempt to do in every single review: Explain why something is good or bad. All you've done is say the same statements, all of which have been rebuked. If you really want to defend GFW, then back up your statements.

Alright, I'm going to say this yet again with more detail. I thought the film was "cool" in that we get 15 monsters, with what I think to be great effects. (CGI mixed with the good ol' suits does a good job.) My main monster, Gigan, gets a nice role and the new design I really liked. There were so many really cool little moments, (which I've already said them) the fights were too short, but they were short and sweet. (Godzilla vs. Zilla combined with that rock music is probably the coolest 11 second fight in history.) The humans were cool, and not dull like the humans in a lot of the films are. I was glad they had the karate scenes, it made the non-monster scenes more bearable.

That's really all I have to say. And yes, I know how to review movies well, I'll attach an example. http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=43552

[TokyoVigilante]

^
But see, that's the problem. It's "cool", but that's all it has going for it. It's a hollow, vapid, trying to be hip with the times film and it's just not appropriate for a franchise that covers as much ground and is as old as Godzilla. For a 50th Anniversary celebration, you need more then "cool".

I would enjoy seeing Kitamura with the same creative and budgetary restrictions that Kaneko and Tezuka had to put up with for their Millennium films. No one would be nearly as negative towards Final Wars if it was just another Millennium movie, but if this is supposed to be the big skreeonk pat on the back to the fans then they completely dropped the ball and that's the issue people have with it.

[Svitska Donkun]

That's really all I have to say. And yes, I know how to review movies well, I'll attach an example. http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=43552

That review is strange. It feels rather biased, and it seems to define the films quality based on how close of an adaptation it was. This is the wrong way to look at films. A film should be judged as a film no matter what is in it or what its based off of. Its strange to see you talking about what a movie got "right" then to see you posting defenses on a movie that got everything wrong.

[Ethan]

I agree with many of the points made here. It's so sadly true that Kitamura used the film as a vehicle to exploit his own interests rather than wanting to make a Godzilla film. However I would not say this is the worst film in the franchise. Godzilla Final Wars is by all accounts F Grade, however Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla is a worse film for the following reasons:

There is no clear protagonist. Nobody we root for. Nobody we remember after watching the film, very few people take a proactive approach to things. One could argue that characters like Colonel Gordon, or even Torgo are more memorable than anybody in this film. Miki Saeguse is given the umpteenth chance to develop a personality and instead sits back in her "I don't want to do this but I'' do it all the same" stance from the previous film.

The special effects work is easily the most embarrassing in the series. Compare them to those in The Return of Godzilla , made a whopping 10 years earlier and tell me which of the works has aged better. Godzilla Final Wars has its fair share of SyFy reminiscent moments, but never do you see something in the league of the asteroid battle from Spacegodzilla.

The biggest fault however, is the antagonist monster. Spacegodzilla is one Toho's most uninspired creations. This is a monster that has come to Earth with the sole purpose of destroying Godzilla, but the story makes no attempt to establish clear hostility between both monsters. Say what you will about Kaizer Ghidorah or Destroyer, but there both were clear-cut enemies, their presence in the films made a difference. Spacegodzilla? Not so much, he's like his human counterparts a passive self. He wanders aimlessly around cities, sporadically destroying things, getting away from Godzilla after their first battle and generally not moving from his location during the climax. His capturing of Little Godzilla in a crystal prison is quickly forgotten until the end of the film, it's just something that comes and goes.

[Destroyer]

That's really all I have to say. And yes, I know how to review movies well, I'll attach an example. http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=43552

That review is strange. It feels rather biased, and it seems to define the films quality based on how close of an adaptation it was. This is the wrong way to look at films. A film should be judged as a film no matter what is in it or what its based off of. Its strange to see you talking about what a movie got "right" then to see you posting defenses on a movie that got everything wrong.

You're the first person to tell me that it feels rather biased. As a Marvel Comics fan, I had to point out what they got right, if they make an adaption, they should adapt it. Cap succeeded in both ways, as an adaption and as a film overall.

Final Wars is a fun film, that's it. I consider it to be a fun, cool film for the King of Monsters. It doesn't have the substance of previous films, but I consider it to be a very entertaining movie.