Final Wars: Why all the Hate?

[JVM]

GFW is critically a bad movie.

The real problem is it seems to be hit-or-miss - people tend to either love it way too much and become massive fanboys of everything in it, or like GXG above, hate it to pieces and act like it's totally worthless. It's not. It does some things completely shitty but it still has some good moments. I wish more people would take the middle ground.

[ElijahSky]

Godzilla Final Wars is fun, but it feels like a bad fan fiction.

Think about that, and tell me I'm wrong.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

GotengoXGodzilla, why do you take quotes so personally? I read what you had written up until that point, but I was typing the rest of my post while others were posting after your statement. I can't speak for others, but not everything that is spoken is not meant to be taken as a personal attack.

Like Destroyer stated, that's the first time I've ever heard someone say that even the American film was better.

Whoops, my bad. Guess I just misread what you were saying. Usually people rush to disagree with my opinions, so in a case like this, I jumped to the conclusion that you and Destroyer were against what I said. Sorry about that.

I think Ghidorah looked the way he looked cause they were trying to make seem "older" if you know what I mean. After years and years of coming back, the strain took its toll. The Xlliens turned him into Monster X to preserve him, plus the way he acts and roars.....but this is just my humble opinion.

...Except that Godzilla: Final Wars isn't connected to any previous Godzilla films. GFW exists in it's own little universe, where none of the other Godzilla films happened. King Ghidorah never "came back", he never had any strain on him or anything like that. Ghidorah isn't meant to be old in GFW.

I think the reason some of the monsters were slapped to the side real quickly was to show how powerful Godzilla had become. Hedorah might have been tough back in the early days, but now, they wanted to show how far Godzilla had come.

A. GFW Godzilla is not powerful. He's average strength in terms of being a Godzilla. The monsters that he fought were just incredibly weak. Seriously, Rodan (Showa), Mothra (Heisei) and Anguirus (Showa) all could have easily done what GFW Godzilla had done in the film.
B. The reason why the monsters were slapped to the side, was because the filmmakers obviously didn't give a damn about the monsters. They wanted to make a Kung-Fu film and have as little to do with monsters as possible. It wasn't to show anything better in the story, like showing how powerful Godzilla is, but that there was just way too much going on within the film, and something had to get pushed to the side. And the filmmakers chose to push the monsters to the side, rather than the Kung-Fu and human characters.

[Destroyer]

...Except that Godzilla: Final Wars isn't connected to any previous Godzilla films. GFW exists in it's own little universe, where none of the other Godzilla films happened. King Ghidorah never "came back", he never had any strain on him or anything like that. Ghidorah isn't meant to be old in GFW.

I don't think it was ever stated that FW doesn't exist in a universe. Other than Zilla and Monster X, every monster was Showa based. Minya was from Showa, Kumonga, Kamacuras, Gigan, King Ceaser, Rodan had his Showa look, and Anguirus. All I'm saying is that maybe, just maybe, this takes place in Showa, but that's just speculation from a fellow fan.

A. GFW Godzilla is not powerful. He's average strength in terms of being a Godzilla. The monsters that he fought were just incredibly weak. Seriously, Rodan (Showa), Mothra (Heisei) and Anguirus (Showa) all could have easily done what GFW Godzilla had done in the film.
B. The reason why the monsters were slapped to the side, was because the filmmakers obviously didn't give a damn about the monsters. They wanted to make a Kung-Fu film and have as little to do with monsters as possible. It wasn't to show anything better in the story, like showing how powerful Godzilla is, but that there was just way too much going on within the film, and something had to get pushed to the side. And the filmmakers chose to push the monsters to the side, rather than the Kung-Fu and human characters.

I think being Godzilla already makes you one of the tougher beings out there. I just think that this film was meant to showcase Godzilla's true power, but this is all just an opinion.

[Goji]

Come one dude..are you really this dense? FINAL WARS does not take place in the Showa universe.

[RogueShuffler]

It is pretty showa-esque, atleast thats was my first reaction when I saw it. It was goofy as hell, had lots of monsters, and it had the pacing of a race horse on meth. It had a bunch of showa monsters in it, which I think tells you right there the direction they were going for in FW. As for it being terrible, yeah, I'll admit, its not the best Godzilla movie out there, and I was a little disappointed. But I was entertained atleast, and thats all that really matters I guess, especially in a franchsise that isnt exactly worshiped for its genious scripts and breath taking plots. Im a little sad that FW was the last Godzilla movie we will be getting for a good long while, at least until the LP one comes out. I really wish they pumped out one more after FW that they really put some thought, time and energy into, but what canya do. I certainly understand all the hate, but I also see a lot of great things about FW because in the end at least it put me in a great mood after watching it, and didnt leave me wishing I could have that hour and a half or so of my life back.

[Jomei]

Re-watching this yesterday, I actually enjoyed it until, bizarrely enough, when Godzilla re-appears. That's when, to me, things start getting disappointing. Here we have Godzilla, looking awesome, emerging from the ice in style to fight a redesigned Gigan with new abilities, and what happens? Godzilla blows his head off in, what, like 20 seconds?

Then we just go from there to all the things others have listed: far too much mutant x alien fighting, abbreviated Godzilla fights as he mysteriously makes his way all over the globe almost instantaneously, Matrix and Dragonball bullshit, etc.

[SuperSaiyan4Godzilla]

This movie manages to do something DAM couldn't: Keep me entertained all the way through.

[shinmattiathekaiju]

This movie manages to do something DAM couldn't: Keep me entertained all the way through.

Funny,GFW did the exact opposite.

[Ethan]

I can see what Kitamura was trying to do, his film isn't the worst from the franchise, however it's the most disappointing one. So much could have been done with the budget he was given.

[Irys X]

Wow. Some pretty passionate hate responses. Ill just say that i like the film but i respect everyone elses opinion. Im gonna just agree to disagree and not join in on the fight of whether or not the movie is good.

[Destroyer]

Wow. Some pretty passionate hate responses. Ill just say that i like the film but i respect everyone elses opinion. Im gonna just agree to disagree and not join in on the fight of whether or not the movie is good.

Best comment yet.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I don't think it was ever stated that FW doesn't exist in a universe. Other than Zilla and Monster X, every monster was Showa based. Minya was from Showa, Kumonga, Kamacuras, Gigan, King Ceaser, Rodan had his Showa look, and Anguirus. All I'm saying is that maybe, just maybe, this takes place in Showa, but that's just speculation from a fellow fan.

Well anyone who says that GFW takes place in the same universe as the Showa era is wrong. Here is how the universes go in terms of the Godzilla films:
-Showa Universe (Every Godzilla film from 1954 to 1975, with Destroy All Monsters being at the end since it takes place in 1999)
-Heisei Universe (Gojira and every Godzilla film from 1984 to 1995)
-G2K Universe (Just Godzilla 2000)
-GXM Universe (Gojira and Godzilla X Megaguirus)
-GMK Universe (Gojira and GMK)
-Kiryu Universe (Gojira, Mothra, War Of The Gargantuas, Godzilla X MechaGodzilla and Godzilla: Tokyo SOS)
-GFW Universe (Just GFW)

There is no evidence to prove that GFW takes place in the Showa universe. Just because it has a bunch of Showa monsters, does not mean that it takes place in that universe.

I think being Godzilla already makes you one of the tougher beings out there. I just think that this film was meant to showcase Godzilla's true power, but this is all just an opinion.

As I said, GFW Godzilla is not powerful, it's just that the monsters he fought were as fragile as wet toilet paper. A baby with a bazooka could have done what GFW Godzilla did.

[KaneLocke]

As I said, GFW Godzilla is not powerful, it's just that the monsters he fought were as fragile as wet toilet paper. A baby with a bazooka could have done what GFW Godzilla did.

Bit of a hyperbole, but the point is still correct.

I mean, Ebirah was blown to shit by hand-held weapons... GFW monsters are just fragile as Hell, which makes Godzilla look more powerful. Pretty sure that was the intent, but the execution of the idea was so, SO bad.

[Destroyer]

Well anyone who says that GFW takes place in the same universe as the Showa era is wrong. Here is how the universes go in terms of the Godzilla films:
-Showa Universe (Every Godzilla film from 1954 to 1975, with Destroy All Monsters being at the end since it takes place in 1999)
-Heisei Universe (Gojira and every Godzilla film from 1984 to 1995)
-G2K Universe (Just Godzilla 2000)
-GXM Universe (Gojira and Godzilla X Megaguirus)
-GMK Universe (Gojira and GMK)
-Kiryu Universe (Gojira, Mothra, War Of The Gargantuas, Godzilla X MechaGodzilla and Godzilla: Tokyo SOS)
-GFW Universe (Just GFW)

There is no evidence to prove that GFW takes place in the Showa universe. Just because it has a bunch of Showa monsters, does not mean that it takes place in that universe.

Like I said, just speculation. I believe it's tied to Showa, but again, that's just my humble opinion.

[Svitska Donkun]

EDIT:Something strange happened, I already posted this, in this very thread, but it and a few other posts by other posters disappeared like they went down a black hole....

Wow. Some pretty passionate hate responses.

Hold up a sec, I'm the Duke of passionate hate responses.

Oh Godzilla: Final Wars...Where do I begin?
I will open with the statement that GINO is a better film than Godzilla: Final Wars. It is, honestly. The problem here is GINO, is not a Godzilla film, as GFW ironically proves(obnoxiously and nonsensically). GINO meets none of the criteria needed to be a Godzilla film other than monsters in it. So, where as GINO was a complete and utter false statement and took liberty on the entire franchise, and basically ruined Godzilla for a period of time, its wrongs were only temporary. And its funny because its ramifications were only temporary because it WASN'T a Godzilla film. So when you think about it, because they were two different things completely, the real Godzilla remains virtually untouched. All he has to do is file a suit for impersonation and identity theft. Godzilla would soon be back to his normal character. Shit, with all the money GINO made, it probably paid for the budget of Godzilla 2000. Does this make me a GINO apologist? No. I hate the film and it is rather insulting that they slapped Godzilla's name on it, but it isn't really Godzilla, so its really just insulting itself. Now, GFW on the other hand is most certainly a Godzilla film, as it includes the character, the other monsters, Godzilla's back story, destruction, and even a snippet of the Godzilla Theme. We have to live with this film now. Because it is a Godzilla film, we can't push it under a rug and ignore it like GINO. Like the Prequel trilogy, it will always be there, taunting us with its stupidity and horrors. It is also, arguably, one of the most significant Godzilla films because its the 50th Anniversary film. Its supposed to be the culmination of 50 years of development and evolution of the character, Japan, and movie making itself. That's what makes this most insulting. This is what we got for his 50th anniversary/retirement film.

Basically, GFW is the complete opposite of everything I said the 50th anniversary film should be. Instead of taking anything a step further it takes massive steps back. It pretty much crams every negative stereotype about modern cinema and Asian Culture into one film and creates a primitive tone between goofball and seriousness. Either of which would be bad, but together? Even worse. The film, rather than being an ambitious film that could focus on developing a character that has no human traits and exemplify the best of the series, completely folds back on itself. How can a film contribute anything to anything when it boldly rip offs almost every successful sci-fi/action film ever made? Some people say "derivative". That's incorrect. Derivative would be taking ideas form other works and restructuring them into something of artistic merit. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. A good example would be how the original Star Wars took inspiration from Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers. A poor example would the Prequel star Wars trilogy trying to take fom the OT and failing miserably. (=P) GFW just blatantly, and unapologetically rips off so much, to the point that I don;t know how he never got sued. Though, that's probably because I doubt George Lucas, the Wachowski Brothers, Stan Lee, or Michael Bay would trouble themselves to watch this schlock. Its honestly a disgusting practice and I;m not surprised Japanese audiences caught on to it. But there's honestly not much else to say about that aspect off the film that hasn't been said already. The next thing that's a huge step back are the way the action sequences are shot. This is a pretty basic complaint and fairly two dimensional, but its important when a greater amount of run time is given to the Kung-Fu than the monster sequences. Basically, the action choreography follows every negative stereotype seen since the Shaw Brothers, and basically disrespects all the work people like Donnie Yen and Tony Jaa put in to break those generalizations. Sure the Shaw Bros. films worked back in the 70's, but thats because it was the 70's. And that's why they still hold up. They're corny fun. Trying to emulate it in a modern film with dead pan seriousness will not work. Audiences are to sophisticated nowadays to not notice when people are basically flying. Realism also rears its head when you are using 70's monster cliches as well. While possibly being the most infamous period of the franchise, it was also relatively short and i no way represents the franchise as a whole and was already "sort of" uncharacteristic to Godzilla's character. To go this route in a film that's supposed to be a 50th anniversary film for modern audiences? Its a stupid move. Especially when you have shit like an S&M Monster with chainsaw hands. Keep it in anime please. All the other Godzilla films since 84 kept one foot in reality, at all times. This was because of how much more sophisticated audiences became. Why backtrack 30 years of evolution? Its not just evolution of the franchise, its film itself. GFW actually has some of the worst photography I've ever seen. Its all because the director was too lazy to construct interesting shots and uses of natural color. He just slams color filter over EVERYTHING to make up for it. Great work! Compare this to the dynamic camera movements and style of Godzilla 2000 and GMK. And the icing on the backtracking cake, is replacing a vast library of Godzilla music that has evolved over time with a terrible 80's symphonic soundtrack. Lets top it off with the plot being a rip off of DAM, instead of creating a new and innovative plot that tells us more about Godzilla as a character. I don't understand these decisions...

Possibly the worst aspect of the film though, which has nothing to do with its insulting attitude towards Asian cinema, is Godzilla's involvement himself. sure its been cited that Godzilla has limited screentime, but I'd doubt he had all that much more in Godzilla '84. The key difference is, Godzilla was involved in the plot. It revolved completely around him. He was still in the film even when he wasn't on screen. This feeling of tension ALSO made it more impacting when he appeared on the screen. GFW is NOT about Godzilla. This is not an opinion, this is a fact. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. This idea is the 100% incorrect method of making a 50th anniversary film about a character. In the 28 films Godzilla's been in, sure there's some room for experimentation, but NOT on his 50th anniversary film. and even the former is arguable. What if you went to a movie called Spiderman: The Last Stand, and the movie wasn't about Spiderman? But I guess that's different because Spiderman is human.(SPOILER: It isn't different at all.) Ozaki, the blatant Neo rip off is what the film is about, and his struggles against things and his character arch. He's the parts we have to suffer through in order to get to the title character. And there's s o much of it. I don't even care about this character because he's not the reason I saw the movie. Its painful to sit and watch all this crap that has NOTHING to do with Godzilla at all, in a film called Godzilla: Final Wars. Godzilla is almost treated as a Non character, he's just a solution to one part of the problem. They're all sitting at a table over halfway through the film, and they're like "Hey! That's right! Earth has the strongest creature in existence! Lets go get it, I guess." This disregard for Godzilla's character in the 50th anniversary film is just so disgusting and insulting that my hands are trembling as I type this. It just gives the impression that this hack director took advantage of the film he was assigned to make the movie HE always wanted to make. He used it to inflate his own ego and cram in every "idea" he's ever had into one film(Hopefully because his career would be over afterwards). A disgusting way to use the studio and the fans for his own personal gain and wants. I honestly hope that Kitamura burns in Hell. I want him to cry, naked, in dark caves, while being stung perpetually by thousands of wasps, for all eternity.

So why? Why did Toho pick him, furthermore, why did Toho approve the script? I'm sure Kaneko or Okawara would've jumped to direct the 50th anniversary feature. Shit, Banno would've done it better and cheaper. Why did we get this film?
[spoiler]Because skreeonk you, thats why.[/spoiler]
In all seriousness, this production makes no sense to me. From the creative choices, to what Toho's brass was thinking, to marketing. Nothing. I guess the DAM premise makes sense because of all the classic monsters. But this only works when the monsters are the main focus of the film, or are portrayed realistically. Why did GINO have to be in the movie? That doesn't make any kind of sense. That's like if Red Son appeared in a Superman film as a main villain. Sure it was an interesting scene to see, but was it really essential to have in the film? It seems more like a fun bonus feature to put on the DVD than a legit scene. Also, how much of the budget went towards getting that sound byte from a SUM 41 song? Minya? His size changing ability is canon, not a hallucinogenic drug? None of the decisions in this film make sense...Its worse than the Prequel Trilogy, Star Trek: Generations, and AVP: Requiem combined! The fanbase got the biggest kick in the balls with this movie than any other Sci-fi fandom in history. Look at the previous retirement film, Godzilla vs. Destoroyah. Perfection. It was true climactic perfection. It made perfect sense to tie the original film to the final film, and then kill the character off in an incredible way WHILE preserving his legacy. Why not try something like that? Why not add a third film to the "Kiryu saga" about something similar? Why all...this? Godzilla 2000 would've made a damn fine 50th anniversary film. So would GMK. Shit, how about the project that GMK was made instead of. Toho rejected Daiei's proposal to do Gamer vs. Godzilla so they could do GMK. Let that sink in for a moment. We were that close. GMK is a good movie and all, but I'm sure most of us would've preferred the alternative. But here's the question, why not save that movie premise for Godzilla's 50th anniversary? How GREAT would that have been? The movie we got is stupid.

Now lets put this in a retrospective. When I first saw the film, when I was 12. My mind told me I liked, while my heart told me no, if that makes sense. I tried to rationalize liking it, as it was a Godzilla movie after all. I just couldn't, and as I grew older and rewatched it, every time I had more of a reason as to why. The movie just fails on every level. I guess I can see how it would be fun and for someone to like it, but only in a really stupid kind of way, like "OMG this is so stupid! LOL!" Godzilla: Final Wars though is just too stupid for me. Its insulting to my intelligence, to me as a fan, and to Godzilla's integrity. What was the point of this film? What was it trying to do or say? Every Godzilla film had a point, no matter how 2 dimensional or obvious it was, every single one had a point, and endgame. There really wasn't any kind here...nothing the film is basically just fluff. Its kind of about nothing...I mean Don Frye was entertaining to watch. He's kind of like Burt Reynolds mixed with Bruce Campbell, but I'd rather watch a movie about him than this piece of shit...maybe that was the point? Idk. Godzilla: Final Wars is a bad movie, and the worst Godzilla film ever made.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Huh, that's strange. Must have been a forum error.

Like I said, just speculation. I believe it's tied to Showa, but again, that's just my humble opinion.

This isn't about an opinion. It's a FACT that Godzilla: Final Wars takes place in a universe where none of the other Godzilla films happened. It never references the events of other Godzilla films, so they didn't happen in this universe.

@ Svitska, as I agreed with Legion before, Godzilla vs. Destoroyah is far from "perfect". Other than the last 10 or 15 minutes, I found the film to be pretty boring. I believe that there is no such thing as "perfect" in film, because someone will always find something wrong with a film.

[Svitska Donkun]

Huh, that's strange. Must have been a forum error.

Like I said, just speculation. I believe it's tied to Showa, but again, that's just my humble opinion.

This isn't about an opinion. It's a FACT that Godzilla: Final Wars takes place in a universe where none of the other Godzilla films happened.

@ Svitska, as I agreed with Legion before, Godzilla vs. Destoroyah is far from "perfect". Other than the last 10 or 15 minutes, I found the film to be pretty boring. I believe that there is no such thing as "perfect" in film, because someone will always find something wrong with a film.

The film may not itself be perfect, but for what it was trying to do and what it accomplished, I think it pulled it off perfectly. But thats barely relevant to the thread, I just cited it as a proper example of a series closure within the same franchise.

[Destroyer]

Huh, that's strange. Must have been a forum error.

Like I said, just speculation. I believe it's tied to Showa, but again, that's just my humble opinion.

This isn't about an opinion. It's a FACT that Godzilla: Final Wars takes place in a universe where none of the other Godzilla films happened. It never references the events of other Godzilla films, so they didn't happen in this universe.

@ Svitska, as I agreed with Legion before, Godzilla vs. Destoroyah is far from "perfect". Other than the last 10 or 15 minutes, I found the film to be pretty boring. I believe that there is no such thing as "perfect" in film, because someone will always find something wrong with a film.

I wouldn't call it fact. I think there are some little references in there. Like when Godzilla and Anguirus met, they had this little roaring chat. The big G didn't do that to anyone else, I believe he recognized Anguirus. (Reference to their friendship from the Showa series.)

Oh, and Godzilla vs. Destoroyah was epic. Second best film in my opinion.

[Godzilla 2000]

I wouldn't call it fact. I think there are some little references in there. Like when Godzilla and Anguirus met, they had this little roaring chat. The big G didn't do that to anyone else, I believe he recognized Anguirus. (Reference to their friendship from the Showa series.)

Wow.

Even Stretch Armstrong couldnt make that kind of a stretch.