Final Wars: Why all the Hate?

[MothraRocks]

Final Wars is basically Kung Fu panda, except there are monsters instead of Pandas doing Kung Fu.

[Showa Gyaos]

I love the film. It's my ninth favorite Godzilla movie. Besides, I owe it a great deal of thanks for renewing my interest in the series back when I picked it up in January of 2008.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Final Wars is basically Kung Fu panda, except there are monsters instead of Pandas doing Kung Fu.

...

...Except that Kung Fu Panda was awesome, and Godzilla: Final Wars sucked.

[MothraRocks]

Exactly, no pandas! It messes the flow of things!

But in all seriousness, it sucked. Big time.

[Showa Gyaos]

Wait, I was wrong. MARCH of 2008.

[Crimson_Raptor]

I'm just going to go ahead and say that GFW is a bigger insult to the Godzilla franchise than the American Godzilla film. At least that can be enjoyable at times.

OUCH! That's uber bad GotendoXGodzilla! Almost signature worthy!

It seems GFW works better in overall monster carnage, while kicking the can on the human interaction by trying way too hard, and semmingly forcing it in to stop the monster action instead of complementing it, while the American Zilla works better on the human drama and interactions (even with terrible actors!) but fails to deliver on the monster damage (the US Military holds that honor in the film).


Okay Destroyer, here's what happened:

Too Many Monsters (Money could've been easily saved by removing unnecessary "flying battleships" that were going to be blown up anyway, and using the MechaG III Kiryu suit one last time in place of them or even using up all of the Maser Tanks and Military vehicles that had been created up until that time to be destroyed. I mean, they had tons of cityscapes left over from GMK (2001) that they sold(?) or loaned(?) to Quentin Tarantino for his Kill Bill movies right?)

Too Many Actors all vying for screentime for some reason or another in an unfinished script. Take a cue from past movies, and shorten the cast after the desired monsters were picked and budgeted in.

Too Much Money spent on advertising (Godzilla always does that for free by word of mouth)

That includes Too Much Hype by Toho themselves. They have seemingly learned their lesson as the reigns are being handed over to another studio in the US (I think Legendary is US based) for the time being.

Although I would had to disagree with TokyoVigilante that the monster designs are a welcome suprise for the most part.


GODZILLA, while not my favorite (Godzilla 1989 is), works for all intents and purposes.

MOTHRA, this Tokyo SOS version, works again as probably one of the best Mothras this side of 1961!

GIGAN, although, after purchasing a figure of it at Toys R US, this design of the Cyborg is growing on me, but I still have issues with the color scheme without the green and gold of the original. Perhaps MEGALON, should have been buried under the Earth with Gigan being brought with the Aliens on their journey.

ZILLA, what can I say that hasn't already been said, let's just agree on, this needed to be done, and any and all money that was used to make this battle happen was well worth it! *cheers from the audience*

MANDA, an excellent improvement over all of the designs (althought I still don't understand what those long "feelers" are in his leg and armpits...are they meant to glow like how an angler fish [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angler_fish ] has bio illumination to catch prey - any one have any info on this?) of the past, this Manda is great but why money was wasted on a suit looked like poor CGI in the actural film, I don't understand. His ability would have had far better use created the infamous deleted scene of Destroy All Monsters battling Godzilla, only this time, in an underwater battle!

EBIRAH, from intial concept art to the actual screen, the sea monsters works as both a menance and overall interesting choice of giant monster. The problems arise from the sea monster's application into thescrit. Why not have it destroy the great sea highways of the Pacific Ocean, or serve as an opponent for Godzilla under or abovewater in Tokyo Bay? The concept was there in the early script where they decided to have the battle off camera (Why would this be a good idea?! This is a Giant Monster Movie!!!) and just randomly hit a big blob of pollution that goes by the name of HEDORAH, and just end up overcooked by HEDORAH's searing acidic skin and Godzilla's radioactive atomic heat ray? Besides, was the sea monster not already shredded to bits by the ...*cringes*... Mutants by this point in the script? EBIRAH could be worth more than that, while KAMACURAS could've easily ended up on the other side of OZAKI's maser rifle.

ANGUIRUS, although the concept art is very noteworthy, the reason this design falls below the Destroy All Monsters variant, is due to the shortened jaws, the teeny tiny horn on the tip, and the lack of pronounced fangs. The longer neck they made looked great in the artwork, but horrible on the final application. Something went wrong from the drawing board to the production floor.

RODAN, again, the suit design fails far short of the intended design. Looking at the concept art shows the Wings out of proportion, the head design was not an improvement over the original or FIRE RODAN of the 1993, along with the thickness of the legs (I know its a man in the suit, but with as little as they used and displayed Rodan in the film, why have a man in it at all?).

KAMACURAS or GIMANTIS for the AIPers out there, from design to film, worked really well. I enjoyed the camouflage addition to the monster's powers and the color change from red (original) to brown (concept) to green(final), but was really the weakest of the Final Wars cast in terms of a foe to battle Godzilla. Possibly could have been cut to say costs.

KUMONGA or SPIEGA for the AIPers out there, oddly enough, never named in the film, yet works well in concept and while the color scheme was quite eyecatching, the monster did not translate well in film. They took away the monster's poison stinger! And the webbing didn't even work at all. I can deal with the silk out of the mouth instead of it's butt for campy reasons, but forming a web in mid air out of its own web spit? Please, my suspension of disbelief came to a screeching halt. A possible cut to save costs.

KING CAESAR, simply feels out of place without a MECHAGODZILLA to contend with. This is where the cute, and red, GMK BARAGON could have taken over since Caesar had big giant "cute" anime eyes for some reason.

HEDORAH, more wasted money. Very well designed update to the monster, but why use on Godzilla's, hell, even Toho's most unfavorable monster designs to honor Godzilla? More wasted money. Sensing a pattern here? This is the best way to not only let a film go belly up on an untested director of the genre, but also to end up with an unprofitable $8,000,000 Million Dollars, in the hole -in the red.

MONSTER X, wrong on so many levels and simply feels out of place amongst other monsters of Godzilla fame. This is where the hype and secrecy came back to bite the producers and creators in the gross profit butt. As I have said before, MX acts like an Ultraman or Power Rangers monster and not a proper Godzilla foe.

KAISER GHIDORAH, as Lord Gappa once wrote, "...they failed by making Ghidorah an obese garbage bag." This is does not honor the 50th anniversary, but rather slaps the fan in the face for a cheap thrill. Now, GRAND KING GHIDORAH would have worked far better. right? The buildup for MONSTER X should have rested on KING GHIDORAH's arrival and no one else.

MINYA, does anymore need to be said? I will admit that the suit was an amazing tribute to the character itself, but again, not needed, and more money wasted.



However, on the other side of the coin I do completely agree with, TokyoVigilante, in that Godzilla: Final Wars did not honor Godzilla's 50th Anniversary.

I mean, they let Godzilla have a son, again....for the third time! Godzilla could have easily have walked off into the sunset by looking at the crashed alien craft, an obilierated King Ghidorah, and a managled Kiryu, with a flatten Tokyo in all directions....Done and Done.... back to Monster Island, you know?

[GotengoXGodzilla]

OUCH! That's uber bad GotendoXGodzilla! Almost signature worthy!

...Why? For having an opinion? Excuse me for despising GFW. Besides, I already explained why I enjoy Godzilla (1998) more than GFW. If you want to critique what I said there, then fine. But don't say that one opinion is "uber bad" without reading over the rest of what I've said in the topic.

It seems GFW works better in overall monster carnage, while kicking the can on the human interaction by trying way too hard, and semmingly forcing it in to stop the monster action instead of complementing it, while the American Zilla works better on the human drama and interactions (even with terrible actors!) but fails to deliver on the monster damage (the US Military holds that honor in the film).

What monster carnage? Sure, the monsters are destroying the world, but we hardly see any of it. We get little glimpses of it from time to time, but it's mostly Rodan just flying around or Anguirus attacking Shanghai's defense ship.

I will gladly take the military doing a terrible job at stopping GINO over the five second scenes of Kumonga stepping on a trailer or Kumakaras flying by the Eiffel Tower. At least the military goofing up is funny, and thus enjoyable.

[Space Hunter M]

Kumonga flying by the Eiffel Tower.

Oh, so that's where Kumonga ended up after Godzilla tossed 'em.

[KaneLocke]

Yeah. To say the American Godzilla is better is a bit of a stretch.

It's just that's the first time I've ever heard someone say that even the American film was better.

Fact is, the American movie was a better movie over-all than Final Wars. Both were slaps-in-the-face to the franchise as a whole.

Yes, but the movie was also a tribute the whole franchise. Godzilla wasn't seen for half of the film to build him up, and then when he returns, all heck breaks loose.

I ask again, what the Hell movie are you watching? It was hardly a "tribute." There were subtle nods here-and-there, but that a tribute does not make. Hell, almost half of 'em had to be pointed out to me. And there was NO build-up to Godzilla's return. The closest we got was when Gordon came up with some cock-eyed plan to release him. Then, BANG, he's released, kills Gigan in 30 seconds, and spends the rest of the film basically montaging monsters to death.

[Destroyer]

I'm just going to go ahead and say that GFW is a bigger insult to the Godzilla franchise than the American Godzilla film. At least that can be enjoyable at times.

OUCH! That's uber bad GotendoXGodzilla! Almost signature worthy!

It seems GFW works better in overall monster carnage, while kicking the can on the human interaction by trying way too hard, and semmingly forcing it in to stop the monster action instead of complementing it, while the American Zilla works better on the human drama and interactions (even with terrible actors!) but fails to deliver on the monster damage (the US Military holds that honor in the film).


Okay Destroyer, here's what happened:

Too Many Monsters (Money could've been easily saved by removing unnecessary "flying battleships" that were going to be blown up anyway, and using the MechaG III Kiryu suit one last time in place of them or even using up all of the Maser Tanks and Military vehicles that had been created up until that time to be destroyed. I mean, they had tons of cityscapes left over from GMK (2001) that they sold(?) or loaned(?) to Quentin Tarantino for his Kill Bill movies right?)

Too Many Actors all vying for screentime for some reason or another in an unfinished script. Take a cue from past movies, and shorten the cast after the desired monsters were picked and budgeted in.

Too Much Money spent on advertising (Godzilla always does that for free by word of mouth)

That includes Too Much Hype by Toho themselves. They have seemingly learned their lesson as the reigns are being handed over to another studio in the US (I think Legendary is US based) for the time being.

Although I would had to disagree with TokyoVigilante that the monster designs are a welcome suprise for the most part.


GODZILLA, while not my favorite (Godzilla 1989 is), works for all intents and purposes.

MOTHRA, this Tokyo SOS version, works again as probably one of the best Mothras this side of 1961!

GIGAN, although, after purchasing a figure of it at Toys R US, this design of the Cyborg is growing on me, but I still have issues with the color scheme without the green and gold of the original. Perhaps MEGALON, should have been buried under the Earth with Gigan being brought with the Aliens on their journey.

ZILLA, what can I say that hasn't already been said, let's just agree on, this needed to be done, and any and all money that was used to make this battle happen was well worth it! *cheers from the audience*

MANDA, an excellent improvement over all of the designs (althought I still don't understand what those long "feelers" are in his leg and armpits...are they meant to glow like how an angler fish [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angler_fish ] has bio illumination to catch prey - any one have any info on this?) of the past, this Manda is great but why money was wasted on a suit looked like poor CGI in the actural film, I don't understand. His ability would have had far better use created the infamous deleted scene of Destroy All Monsters battling Godzilla, only this time, in an underwater battle!

EBIRAH, from intial concept art to the actual screen, the sea monsters works as both a menance and overall interesting choice of giant monster. The problems arise from the sea monster's application into thescrit. Why not have it destroy the great sea highways of the Pacific Ocean, or serve as an opponent for Godzilla under or abovewater in Tokyo Bay? The concept was there in the early script where they decided to have the battle off camera (Why would this be a good idea?! This is a Giant Monster Movie!!!) and just randomly hit a big blob of pollution that goes by the name of HEDORAH, and just end up overcooked by HEDORAH's searing acidic skin and Godzilla's radioactive atomic heat ray? Besides, was the sea monster not already shredded to bits by the ...*cringes*... Mutants by this point in the script? EBIRAH could be worth more than that, while KAMACURAS could've easily ended up on the other side of OZAKI's maser rifle.

ANGUIRUS, although the concept art is very noteworthy, the reason this design falls below the Destroy All Monsters variant, is due to the shortened jaws, the teeny tiny horn on the tip, and the lack of pronounced fangs. The longer neck they made looked great in the artwork, but horrible on the final application. Something went wrong from the drawing board to the production floor.

RODAN, again, the suit design fails far short of the intended design. Looking at the concept art shows the Wings out of proportion, the head design was not an improvement over the original or FIRE RODAN of the 1993, along with the thickness of the legs (I know its a man in the suit, but with as little as they used and displayed Rodan in the film, why have a man in it at all?).

KAMACURAS or GIMANTIS for the AIPers out there, from design to film, worked really well. I enjoyed the camouflage addition to the monster's powers and the color change from red (original) to brown (concept) to green(final), but was really the weakest of the Final Wars cast in terms of a foe to battle Godzilla. Possibly could have been cut to say costs.

KUMONGA or SPIEGA for the AIPers out there, oddly enough, never named in the film, yet works well in concept and while the color scheme was quite eyecatching, the monster did not translate well in film. They took away the monster's poison stinger! And the webbing didn't even work at all. I can deal with the silk out of the mouth instead of it's butt for campy reasons, but forming a web in mid air out of its own web spit? Please, my suspension of disbelief came to a screeching halt. A possible cut to save costs.

KING CAESAR, simply feels out of place without a MECHAGODZILLA to contend with. This is where the cute, and red, GMK BARAGON could have taken over since Caesar had big giant "cute" anime eyes for some reason.

HEDORAH, more wasted money. Very well designed update to the monster, but why use on Godzilla's, hell, even Toho's most unfavorable monster designs to honor Godzilla? More wasted money. Sensing a pattern here? This is the best way to not only let a film go belly up on an untested director of the genre, but also to end up with an unprofitable $8,000,000 Million Dollars, in the hole -in the red.

MONSTER X, wrong on so many levels and simply feels out of place amongst other monsters of Godzilla fame. This is where the hype and secrecy came back to bite the producers and creators in the gross profit butt. As I have said before, MX acts like an Ultraman or Power Rangers monster and not a proper Godzilla foe.

KAISER GHIDORAH, as Lord Gappa once wrote, "...they failed by making Ghidorah an obese garbage bag." This is does not honor the 50th anniversary, but rather slaps the fan in the face for a cheap thrill. Now, GRAND KING GHIDORAH would have worked far better. right? The buildup for MONSTER X should have rested on KING GHIDORAH's arrival and no one else.

MINYA, does anymore need to be said? I will admit that the suit was an amazing tribute to the character itself, but again, not needed, and more money wasted.



However, on the other side of the coin I do completely agree with, TokyoVigilante, in that Godzilla: Final Wars did not honor Godzilla's 50th Anniversary.

I mean, they let Godzilla have a son, again....for the third time! Godzilla could have easily have walked off into the sunset by looking at the crashed alien craft, an obilierated King Ghidorah, and a managled Kiryu, with a flatten Tokyo in all directions....Done and Done.... back to Monster Island, you know?

A great read. I do disagree with some of it. I think Rodan's design was perfect, I believe it was meant to capture his Showa look rather than from Vs. MGII. I think Kumonga translated perfectly, I see no problem with it. Like I said before, a lot of this this film is tributing late Showa, so they had to include Minya. I thought Monster X was epic. I don't know what you're saying about Ghidorah, it was a nice touch in the film, unexpected. Too many monsters? That's the whole point.

[tymon]

I hate this movie as much as the next guy, but not by choice. I really wanted to be entertained by it, but was instead repulsed for the most part. I'm envious of those who enjoy it, honestly.

[Crimson_Raptor]

OUCH! That's uber bad GotendoXGodzilla! Almost signature worthy!

...Why? For having an opinion?

No? For actually stating that. I agree.

Excuse me for despising GFW. Besides, I already explained why I enjoy Godzilla (1998) more than GFW. If you want to critique what I said there, then fine. But don't say that one opinion is "uber bad" without reading over the rest of what I've said in the topic.

GotengoXGodzilla, why do you take quotes so personally? I read what you had written up until that point, but I was typing the rest of my post while others were posting after your statement. I can't speak for others, but not everything that is spoken is not meant to be taken as a personal attack.

Like Destroyer stated, that's the first time I've ever heard someone say that even the American film was better.

I thought Monster X was epic. I don't know what you're saying about Ghidorah

Kaiser Ghidorah just didn't work. You just don't make a Ghidorah with wimpy wings, it's taboo! And Toho wondered why their Death Ghidorah has such sorry sales toy-wise. They had not learned.

Too many monsters? That's the whole point.

This is correct, but too many monsters to be profitable, and to given each ample screen time. Either EQUAL TO or EXCEED BY ONE to Destroy All Monsters should've been the original goal of the director.

[tymon]

GINO is definitely a better movie than Final Wars, despite not even being a true Godzilla film. I'm gonna pick it up on Blu-Ray pretty soon actually.

[Destroyer]

You just don't make a Ghidorah with wimpy wings, it's taboo! And Toho wondered why their Death Ghidorah has such sorry sales toy-wise. They had not learned.

I think Ghidorah looked the way he looked cause they were trying to make seem "older" if you know what I mean. After years and years of coming back, the strain took its toll. The Xlliens turned him into Monster X to preserve him, plus the way he acts and roars.....but this is just my humble opinion.

This is correct, but too many monsters to be profitable, and to given each ample screen time. Either EQUAL TO or EXCEED BY ONE to Destroy All Monsters should've been the original goal of the director.

I think the reason some of the monsters were slapped to the side real quickly was to show how powerful Godzilla had become. Hedorah might have been tough back in the early days, but now, they wanted to show how far Godzilla had come.

[King Caesar]

^ Too bad Hedorah is frickin immune to Atomic Radiation. They really lazed out with his character.

[JVM]

GFW is critically a bad movie.

The real problem is it seems to be hit-or-miss - people tend to either love it way too much and become massive fanboys of everything in it, or like GXG above, hate it to pieces and act like it's totally worthless. It's not. It does some things completely shitty but it still has some good moments. I wish more people would take the middle ground.

[ElijahSky]

Godzilla Final Wars is fun, but it feels like a bad fan fiction.

Think about that, and tell me I'm wrong.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

GotengoXGodzilla, why do you take quotes so personally? I read what you had written up until that point, but I was typing the rest of my post while others were posting after your statement. I can't speak for others, but not everything that is spoken is not meant to be taken as a personal attack.

Like Destroyer stated, that's the first time I've ever heard someone say that even the American film was better.

Whoops, my bad. Guess I just misread what you were saying. Usually people rush to disagree with my opinions, so in a case like this, I jumped to the conclusion that you and Destroyer were against what I said. Sorry about that.

I think Ghidorah looked the way he looked cause they were trying to make seem "older" if you know what I mean. After years and years of coming back, the strain took its toll. The Xlliens turned him into Monster X to preserve him, plus the way he acts and roars.....but this is just my humble opinion.

...Except that Godzilla: Final Wars isn't connected to any previous Godzilla films. GFW exists in it's own little universe, where none of the other Godzilla films happened. King Ghidorah never "came back", he never had any strain on him or anything like that. Ghidorah isn't meant to be old in GFW.

I think the reason some of the monsters were slapped to the side real quickly was to show how powerful Godzilla had become. Hedorah might have been tough back in the early days, but now, they wanted to show how far Godzilla had come.

A. GFW Godzilla is not powerful. He's average strength in terms of being a Godzilla. The monsters that he fought were just incredibly weak. Seriously, Rodan (Showa), Mothra (Heisei) and Anguirus (Showa) all could have easily done what GFW Godzilla had done in the film.
B. The reason why the monsters were slapped to the side, was because the filmmakers obviously didn't give a damn about the monsters. They wanted to make a Kung-Fu film and have as little to do with monsters as possible. It wasn't to show anything better in the story, like showing how powerful Godzilla is, but that there was just way too much going on within the film, and something had to get pushed to the side. And the filmmakers chose to push the monsters to the side, rather than the Kung-Fu and human characters.

[Destroyer]

...Except that Godzilla: Final Wars isn't connected to any previous Godzilla films. GFW exists in it's own little universe, where none of the other Godzilla films happened. King Ghidorah never "came back", he never had any strain on him or anything like that. Ghidorah isn't meant to be old in GFW.

I don't think it was ever stated that FW doesn't exist in a universe. Other than Zilla and Monster X, every monster was Showa based. Minya was from Showa, Kumonga, Kamacuras, Gigan, King Ceaser, Rodan had his Showa look, and Anguirus. All I'm saying is that maybe, just maybe, this takes place in Showa, but that's just speculation from a fellow fan.

A. GFW Godzilla is not powerful. He's average strength in terms of being a Godzilla. The monsters that he fought were just incredibly weak. Seriously, Rodan (Showa), Mothra (Heisei) and Anguirus (Showa) all could have easily done what GFW Godzilla had done in the film.
B. The reason why the monsters were slapped to the side, was because the filmmakers obviously didn't give a damn about the monsters. They wanted to make a Kung-Fu film and have as little to do with monsters as possible. It wasn't to show anything better in the story, like showing how powerful Godzilla is, but that there was just way too much going on within the film, and something had to get pushed to the side. And the filmmakers chose to push the monsters to the side, rather than the Kung-Fu and human characters.

I think being Godzilla already makes you one of the tougher beings out there. I just think that this film was meant to showcase Godzilla's true power, but this is all just an opinion.

[Goji]

Come one dude..are you really this dense? FINAL WARS does not take place in the Showa universe.