Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

[GodzillavsRayquaza]

Alright, just saw this film for the first time in years. I always remembered this as one of my favorites, so did it hold up? Yes.

I enjoyed the human characters a lot. They have clearly defined goals and motivations, they’re all distinct and easily remembered. They’re also some of the most relatable characters in a Godzilla movie.

With most of the series having protagonists that are scientists and/or some other high ranking positions, all of the humans we get to know here are just normal people caught up in something bigger than themselves. The moment where Tachibana is getting in the submarine with the drill missile to attack Godzilla during the final battle is a legitimately emotional moment, especially when it’s showing all of the other characters we’ve seen throughout the movie watching the events on TV with bated breath.

The monsters are all great. Godzilla and Baragon’s battle is an intense one which shows off the two perfectly. Godzilla is a sadistic juggernaut, nigh unstoppable, but not incapable of strategy. Baragon is a tenacious and cunning creature, willing to charge into battle when he’s clearly out matched, and being able to still put up a fight.

The final battle between Godzilla, Mothra, and Ghidorah is amazing from start to finish, in my opinion some of the best monster action in the genre. Throughout the movie the kaiju’s every action has caused mayhem and destruction, and so do they here. Both guardians are also clearly outmatched, but still they fight, and do very well all things considered.

A lot of people have issue with King Ghidorah here, but i’ve never minded it. If Godzilla is such a flexible character, why shouldn’t the other monsters be?

The effects are amazing.

I only really have two major complaints. I honestly wish the guardian monsters could have done more to Godzilla. I mean, the ancient mystical gods throw everything they have at him, and all they can do is give him a little shoulder wound? King Ghidorah hit him with an explosion bigger than the both of them combined!

Also, the movie could do with a little thing called subtlety. Kaneko does not leave a thing related to the film’s messages up to interpretation, which in some cases works, but in other cases just feels like we’re being beaten over the head with it.

[LegendZilla]

Hey guys, LegendZilla here once again. Today I would like to start a thread dedicated to a rather controversial subject among the community of fans. That being those with the opinion of the 25th entry of the Godzilla film series, Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah : Giant Monsters all out Attack, (or just GMK for short) that does not fully or even at all resonate with that of the masses. I just so happen to be among the film’s most staunch detractors myself.

I noticed that a short while ago, someone attempted a thread proclaiming this as the worst film in the franchise. While I understand the statement I think we can go further into this subject like the devoted fans we are. My reasons for disliking the film is that Kaneko decided to turn Godzilla flat-out evil as opposed to being a destructive, yet ultimately tragic and misunderstood beast. My other major gripe is Mothra and Ghidorah being tacked on simply because audiences were a bunch of picky crybabies imho, that combined with the fact the latter who has long since been established as a purely malevolent entity suddenly turned into being good. Toho seriously believed that going Bizzaro World with their well-known creations was a small price to pay for marque value. Feel free to unleash your constructive criticism.

[GodzillaFan1990's]

Erm...You do realize this is the 1954 Godzilla being reanimated and possessed by the spirits of WWII right? It's really not Godzilla overall, he's being done against his own will.

As for King Ghidorah. If it makes you better. He wasn't always good. He's the Yamata no Orochi in this Godzilla timeline who was eventually defeated and forced into becoming this eventual guardian. Something around those lines. This was revealed in some source material someone on this site shared to me. Even then King Ghidorah was never considered in the first place. He only happened because Toho pressured Kaneko into using him and Mothra instead of Anguirus and Varan since they'd exploit more money and more well known.

[GodzillaFan1990's]

My ONE issue with GMK was the casting of King Ghiddy as a 'Guardian Monster', which is akin to casting The Joker as a good guy, which just doesn't work. Overall, the movie is pretty good. WORST film of the Millennium Series easily goes to Final Wars, which tries to come off as a homage/satire, but just ends up as a big mess - with a lot of explosions - and was the movie that killed off Big G - in Japan - for the next 12 years! You can't credit GMK with a crime like THAT...

Well as you may know. King Ghidorah was never considered but apparently Toho pressured Kaneko into using him and Mothra instead of Anguirus and Varan.

If it also makes you any better. This incarnation of King Ghidorah hasn't always been good. In fact he was the Yamata no Orochi before eventually being defeated and made into a guardian monster, something around those lines.

Feel better now?

[LegendZilla]

Erm...You do realize this is the 1954 Godzilla being reanimated and possessed by the spirits of WWII right? It's really not Godzilla overall, he's being done against his own will.

As for King Ghidorah. If it makes you better. He wasn't always good. He's the Yamata no Orochi in this Godzilla timeline who was eventually defeated and stored away becoming this eventual guardian. Something around those lines. This was revealed in some source material someone on this site shared to me.

That’s another problem with the film I have. I seriously don’t know what Kaneko was thinking when he decided to incorporate the whole “lost-souls” nonsense into the Godzilla mythos. As for Ghidorah, the fact that the role in the film was not even meant for the character in the first place is enough to discredit it all together.

[GodzillaFan1990's]

That’s another problem with the film I have. I seriously don’t know what Kaneko was thinking when he decided to incorporate the whole “lost-souls” nonsense into the Godzilla mythos. As for Ghidorah, the fact that the role in the film was not even meant for the character in the first place is enough to discredit it all together.

The way I saw it. That was the central theme for the movie. It was taking more of an mystical and mythology approach which I admit was a really cool take IMO. Change and being different is sometimes a good thing which IMO is the case with this.

I still do agree with King Ghidorah though but again remember, it was done against Kaneko's will as Toho pressured him until he agreed. So don't be blaming him, if anything blame Toho which it isn't their fault that they're just trying to make money by exploiting their more famous and recognizable Toho monsters. Around this time Godzilla films weren't doing too well in the box office and so they were trying to get a good buck however way they could.

[eabaker]

the Godzilla mythos.

I think one place where some people differ in their take on this is in their view on whether or not there is a unified "Godzilla mythos." To my mind, there is nothing about Godzilla as a character/franchise that inherently rules out a supernatural element like the one in GMK, nor does its presence there have any implications for the series as a whole, beyond saying, "So, this is one more thing we can draw from, if and when it serves the story."

[LegendZilla]

^How would you people feel if DC hired a writer for a new Batman story who added a ‘new element’ that involved Batman acquiring abilities by being bitten by a radioactive bat? Would that not change the very essence of who the character is? For me that is what tying Godzilla with lost souls is. For me that is what GMK does to the character into a science fiction into a fantasy creature.

[UltramanGoji]

You really couldn't just put this in the actual GMK thread? You had to make a separate thread?

My reasons for disliking the film is that Kaneko decided to turn Godzilla flat-out evil as opposed to being a destructive, yet ultimately tragic and misunderstood beast. My other major gripe is Mothra and Ghidorah being tacked on simply because audiences were a bunch of picky crybabies imho, that combined with the fact the latter who has long since been established as a purely malevolent entity suddenly turned into being good. Toho seriously believed that going Bizzaro World with their well-known creations was a small price to pay for marque value. Feel free to unleash your constructive criticism.

So basically...nothing in terms of how the film actually uses these ideas.

Why not judge the film on how it develops these ideas rather than endlessly moan about how it could've been different? It will never change so there's no use getting worked up about it.

[LegendZilla]

You really couldn't just put this in the actual GMK thread? You had to make a separate thread?

I think that thread is best reserved for the majority of fans who praise it. I would rather have this thread be it’s own thing.

[UltramanGoji]

You really couldn't just put this in the actual GMK thread? You had to make a separate thread?

I think that thread is best reserved for the majority of fans who praise it.

No, that's not how it works. It's not an appreciation thread, it's a discussion thread. As in, both sides of the issue.

[LegendZilla]

You really couldn't just put this in the actual GMK thread? You had to make a separate thread?

I think that thread is best reserved for the majority of fans who praise it.

No, that's not how it works. It's not an appreciation thread, it's a discussion thread. As in, both sides of the issue.

I think that thread would become a tad too crowded even if the staff were to merge this one with it.

[eabaker]

^How would you people feel if DC hired a writer for a new Batman story who added a ‘new element’ that involved Batman acquiring abilities by being bitten by a radioactive bat? Would that not change the very essence of who the character is? For me that is what tying Godzilla with lost souls is. For me that is what GMK does to the character into a science fiction into a fantasy creature.

But there are a ton of alternate takes on major superhero characters. None of them redefine the work of other authors, because they're just that, alternate takes.

How Kaneko chose to present Godzilla in GMK in no way redefines how Godzilla is presented in every other movie.

Also, even in GMK, Godzilla is not redefined as a fantasy creature; he's still the same sci-fi Godzilla, interacting with a fantasy elements.

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

Really? We already have like a dozen threads similar to this.

Oh no something new and creative for the franchise!!

Honestly, if anything this film took an aspect of Godzilla and decided to explore it. I honestly like that King Ghidorah was a hero for once, it was refreshing- also going by that logic they disrespected the original Baragon from Frankenstein vs Baragon. Also we really should stop with all these analogies to superheroes. These are kaiju.

[GodzillavsJason]

Agreed! Let's stop making ideas for threads when you can easily just put them in preexisting ones.

[LegendZilla]

^How would you people feel if DC hired a writer for a new Batman story who added a ‘new element’ that involved Batman acquiring abilities by being bitten by a radioactive bat? Would that not change the very essence of who the character is? For me that is what tying Godzilla with lost souls is. For me that is what GMK does to the character into a science fiction into a fantasy creature.

But there are a ton of alternate takes on major superhero characters. None of them redefine the work of other authors, because they're just that, alternate takes.

How Kaneko chose to present Godzilla in GMK in no way redefines how Godzilla is presented in every other movie.

Also, even in GMK, Godzilla is not redefined as a fantasy creature; he's still the same sci-fi Godzilla, interacting with a fantasy elements.

How does adding Aliens into the mix of Indiana Jones take away from that said franchise?

[eabaker]

^How would you people feel if DC hired a writer for a new Batman story who added a ‘new element’ that involved Batman acquiring abilities by being bitten by a radioactive bat? Would that not change the very essence of who the character is? For me that is what tying Godzilla with lost souls is. For me that is what GMK does to the character into a science fiction into a fantasy creature.

But there are a ton of alternate takes on major superhero characters. None of them redefine the work of other authors, because they're just that, alternate takes.

How Kaneko chose to present Godzilla in GMK in no way redefines how Godzilla is presented in every other movie.

Also, even in GMK, Godzilla is not redefined as a fantasy creature; he's still the same sci-fi Godzilla, interacting with a fantasy elements.

How does adding Aliens into the mix of Indiana Jones take away from that said franchise?

It doesn't.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I don’t see how complaining Mothra and King Ghidorah replaces Varan and Anguruius is a real criticism of the quality of the film. Would it have been nice to see Vara? I suppose.

GMK has some of the best shots, best military action, best and varied fights, best music in the entire franchise. Admit it when Godzilla first appears both underwater and in the bay it’s pretty epic, and you get a real OH FUCK moment. The lead and the dynamic with her father was interesting to, and the concept of going into Godzilla with a sub to kill him is neat.

The reason why I don’t mind Ghidorah being good is because he’s a dragon:hydra/Yamato no Orochi. It’s not hard taking something like Ghidorah and making it a fantastical Beast. Plus Ghidorah was handled way better than the Heisei incarnation so yeah.

As for Godzilla, he actually looks way closer to his original 54 and Heisei look than the other millenniums, so you can’t argue he has a controversial redesign. On top of that he has fins, is incredibly durable, and fires a destructive beam as well as lives underwater. The tie into ghosts and soldiers can seem odd, but actually it fits right into Godzilla being some sort of metaphor or representation of Japanese zietgiests.

I think people who hate or dislike this film are pretty much being hateful hipsters. As someone who likes GFW at this point I get why people don’t like it, but I think GMK is one of those films you can’t say is bad. Same for things like 54, Mothra Vs Godzilla, or even Shin.

[JAGzilla]

Alternate takes and new ideas have always been an essential component of the franchise's success and survival. Before you complain about a departure from tradition in a modern entry, remember that some of the most beloved, iconic Godzilla movies of the '60s (KKvsG, GTTHM, GvsMZ, etc.) were radically different from Godzilla's grim, black-and-white origins in the '50s. I'm sure a lot of fans back then were scratching their heads and griping, but that willingness on Toho's part to risk changing things up is undoubtedly a big reason that the series is still around.

*goes back to seething over murderous Batman in BvS*

[Zarm]

And yet, it is quite possible to be open to new takes on a property and simply not enjoy a particular new take. Which is where I think a lot of straw man criticisms of fan dislike for a new entry come in (especially over The Last Jedi). Just because something is new and different doesn't automatically make it good.

Or, in the case of GMK, you can appreciate the bew direction and the concept and even some of the execution but still think that its tone doesn't work, its style is over-the-top, undercutting its message in a juvenile attempt to be 'edgy', and almost its violence is almost sadistic, and because of those factors, consider it not to be a great movie, despite the intriguing concepts at play and the very strong effects work. (Which, incidentally, is my non-hipster reason for not caring for GMK as much as I do some of the other entries.)

Added in 12 minutes 19 seconds:

Admit it when Godzilla first appears both underwater and in the bay it’s pretty epic, and you get a real OH skreeonk moment.

Definitely. Probably my favorite moment in the film...