Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

[Captain Aktion]

so much of the fanbase characterizing it as the first smart film for a long time in the series

I agree that it's a smart film, just not in the way I think you're taking it.

I think it's "smart" in the way that it handles the genre tropes, the way it juggles the feels, and the entire way it approaches the monsters. "Smart" in the way that, through a combination of color gradings, angles, pacing, outright homage, and straightforward structure the film achieves exactly what I think it was going for; "elevated" 60's era kaiju film.

"Smart" in its elegance of set-pieces, even if I think the ending drags a bit. I think of Godzilla's foot smashing the cabin, the first breath use, the wide shots used in the jet battle; smart takes on standard stuff we've seen before. Hell, even the typical "monsters colliding and falling into the ocean at the ending" gets rethought and repackaged.

I mean, it even seems to be a conscious attempt to put the "evil destroyer" Godzilla from Gojira into a 60's era "save the Earth" monster romp, which is a high-concept that, while I don't think is particularly "smart" on its own, IS a clever new approach that we hadn't really seen. And...actually, come to think of it, I believe that's probably the term most people were really searching for when they call it "smart"; high-concept. It was the first time in awhile that a Godzilla film wasn't simply built around Godzilla fighting off a bad monster and being all misunderstood, which, in its own way, is "smart".

[Rodan]

so much of the fanbase characterizing it as the first smart film for a long time in the series

I agree that it's a smart film, just not in the way I think you're taking it.

I think it's "smart" in the way that it handles the genre tropes, the way it juggles the feels, and the entire way it approaches the monsters. "Smart" in the way that, through a combination of color gradings, angles, pacing, outright homage, and straightforward structure the film achieves exactly what I think it was going for; "elevated" 60's era kaiju film.

"Smart" in its elegance of set-pieces, even if I think the ending drags a bit. I think of Godzilla's foot smashing the cabin, the first breath use, the wide shots used in the jet battle; smart takes on standard stuff we've seen before. Hell, even the typical "monsters colliding and falling into the ocean at the ending" gets rethought and repackaged.

I mean, it even seems to be a conscious attempt to put the "evil destroyer" Godzilla from Gojira into a 60's era "save the Earth" monster romp, which is a high-concept that, while I don't think is particularly "smart" on its own, IS a clever new approach that we hadn't really seen. And...actually, come to think of it, I believe that's probably the term most people were really searching for when they call it "smart"; high-concept. It was the first time in awhile that a Godzilla film wasn't simply built around Godzilla fighting off a bad monster and being all misunderstood, which, in its own way, is "smart".

Word; I was looking for more of the really satisfying, effective insertion of metaphor the first film and a handful of others achieve, wherein I think the film falls short. High-concept, though, sure.

Still don't get a lot of "feels" from this one. A lot of the performances feel phoned in, or just struggling to find meat in their characters (you can certainly create an emotionally affecting story by going "above" more stock, iconic characters, so to speak, but I don't think it's quite landed here).

But anyway--it's a fun flick and admirable in its concept. Also, glad to see you're posting again. For some reason I thought you'd been perma-banned.

[Breakdown]

Gave this film another watch. Still don't get the immense amount of praise it gets, but it's not bad by any means. Infact, it's quite enjoyable. I've grown to admire how lifelike the Godzilla suit is, the way it's able to emote and move realistically. Though the seam on the back of the suit is so painfully obvious in some shots, something seemingly unique to this suit.

[kamilleblu]

I think most people like GMK because it boasts stronger writing, characters more engaging than usual, and better special effects than most films Post-Showa Era. It's not perfect, though it has more going for it than much of its competition and that's why it gets the praise it receives. Some detractors are critical of things like how King Ghidorah serves a heroic role and the spiritual element added to Godzilla. But Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah put the golden dragon in a similar situation and you rarely see complaints about it. As for the latter point, the overall message isn't contradictory to any established lore and Godzilla still retains his nuclear origins. And the film does have some effects mistakes. Almost unavoidable due to how Toho operates. But other films are even guiltier of this sin. If you hate GMK for special effects and characters, what does that mean for majority of the Heisei and Millennium Era installments? The film could have been a launching pad for more polished productions. Though sadly Toho returned to business as usual.

[omgitsgodzilla]

David Kalat talks about how the Heisei films were a lot more specific to Japan in some respects in his book, which he said was why they had more trouble getting released in the US (at the time he was writing, none of the 1990s films had been released in America yet). I feel like something similar's going on with GMK. I've always enjoyed it, but the social and political commentary has typically been kind of lost on me, because it deals with Japanese history in a lot more detail than I'd imagine most Americans are familiar with.

[3000]

Been thinkin about it and the only thing that ai absolutely don't care for in this movie is the way Ghidorah looks. Especially in the "emerging from ice" scene. The prop looks so plastic and lacking emotive qualities that every time that it is on screen, it bothers me greatly. how crappy ghidorah looks compliments how great Godzilla looks, amd not in a good way.

[g2vd]

Really? I thought the suit looked fantastic.

[3000]

Really? I thought the suit looked fantastic.

The torso/legs/wing/neck dont bother me, other than Ghidorah's short neck. My main issue is the face. It just looks like a prop.

[Rody]

Listen to her trying to roar.

[F4ZaTE_X]

One of the things that really struck me about this movie was the soundtrack. I love it. It's the first Godzilla movie that actually got me to buy the full soundtrack, rather than just downloading a couple of the tracks from the internet.

[Ivo-goji]

GMK is my favorite soundtrack in the Millennium series, and is one of the most memorable in the franchise.

[Rodan]

I've never gotten into the soundtrack for this one. Its main riff is memorable, but something about it sounds so cheap.

[Space Hunter M]

I've never gotten into the soundtrack for this one. Its main riff is memorable, but something about it sounds so cheap.

I always thought electronics juxtaposed with a plot with supernatural elements always came off as a bit weird, but I still like the score in general.

[Rodan]

I always thought electronics juxtaposed with a plot with supernatural elements always came off as a bit weird, but I still like the score in general.

I think it just bothers me because it sounds like one guy with a synth, and one theme plays nearly the entire time, with variations.

[Space Hunter M]

I always thought electronics juxtaposed with a plot with supernatural elements always came off as a bit weird, but I still like the score in general.

I think it just bothers me because it sounds like one guy with a synth, and one theme plays nearly the entire time, with variations.

I suppose it's no less repetitive than Isao Tomita's score for Prophecies of Nostradamus.

[F4ZaTE_X]

I always thought electronics juxtaposed with a plot with supernatural elements always came off as a bit weird, but I still like the score in general.

I think it just bothers me because it sounds like one guy with a synth, and one theme plays nearly the entire time, with variations.

As if Ifukube's was any different

[Ivo-goji]

[Rodan]

I always thought electronics juxtaposed with a plot with supernatural elements always came off as a bit weird, but I still like the score in general.

I think it just bothers me because it sounds like one guy with a synth, and one theme plays nearly the entire time, with variations.

As if Ifukube's was any different

I actually ran Ifukube's score through my head before writing that. Even the monsters' themes are incredibly different from one another (Mothra, Godzilla, Ghidorah, Rodan all have distinct themes, to say nothing of the various other cues sounding quite different from each other).

[F4ZaTE_X]

I think it just bothers me because it sounds like one guy with a synth, and one theme plays nearly the entire time, with variations.

As if Ifukube's was any different

I actually ran Ifukube's score through my head before writing that. Even the monsters' themes are incredibly different from one another (Mothra, Godzilla, Ghidorah, Rodan all have distinct themes, to say nothing of the various other cues sounding quite different from each other).

Yes, the monster's themes are different, but other than that it's generally all similar.

[Jatahaxe]

Movie to movie though, they generally have a handful of themes that repeat in a load of different forms with some exceptions like Godzilla vs. Gigan, which takes cues from all over the Ifukube catalog at the time.
It's hardly any different with Kow Otani's GMK score, though personally I like the main theme enough that I never minded the number of times it repeats, and there are indeed at least a few other themes that play throughout the film. Mothra's theme for example, is pretty distinct. "Call to Arms" is a riveting prelude. "Determined to Protect the Future", is a weirdly nostalgic track full of heart. Even King Ghidorah's theme is a tune apart from the rest, if you can point it out.