The Future of Suitmation in Toho Godzilla Films

[Tohosaurus]

I think at present we're in the transitional period between a CGI Toho Godzilla and more suits. By the time another Toho Godzilla could be made (probably another decade at minimum), we're more likely to see Godzilla migrate completely to CGI. To me, that's perfectly fine. It's necessary for Godzilla's CGI to look as good as it can, so until that can happen the suit is the ideal way to go for me. Right now the CGI can enhance and complement the suit, such as moments we've already seen with Godzilla underwater, etc. But in time Toho can make Godzilla look good in CGI. The CGI Zilla indicate that in 2004 CGI feature length Toho Godzilla was probably not yet ready. But even that was a decade ago, and I'm sure significant improvements have been made by then. And judging by Ragnarok (only the trailer at this point) and Trollhunter, decent CGI for significantly less money than a Millennium Godzilla movie can happen. It takes talent, but if those can do it for about half or even less, then it should be possible for Toho. It's sure to be no coincidence that if you look at Japanese kaiju films from 2000 onward the only one that I know of that used CGI entirely for the kaiju was Big Man Japan. I'm sure the cost and time constraints in order to do it well were a limitation. Toho could have a movie with extensive and in fact they have, but the main inhibiting factor is cost. Space Battleship Yamato or Gantz were north of $20M, far more expensive than any Toho Godzilla film up to that point or the foreseeable future. Attack on Titan next year may well prove a CGI daikaiju can be done well in Japan, but again it'd be a matter of cost: AoT was originally claimed to have the largest budget of any Japanese movie. If we get that Gamera movie next year it'll be the latest example of what suits, sets, and miniatures can do as well.

In short, I do think Godzilla suits will be phased out eventually and CGI will replace practical intensive methods for the most part. When Toho can use CGI akin to G98's CGI I would say it'd be adequate for use. Poorly constructed suits can be virtually as bad as CGI, so making those look and move well enough is also necessary.

[Missingno.]

I really hope that they stick with the suitmation in newer Godzilla films. To me, that's what made Godzilla what he is today. I don't know why, but I just don't like how the monster movies of today are made in CGI. To me, it's like the movies are a video game. They just don't have that "realistic" looking touch to them like the Godzilla movies do and it just makes me not want to watch them because I take the CGI films a lot less seriously. I just hope Toho keeps suitmation for when they make any more Godzilla movies.

[Godnose]

I really hope that they stick with the suitmation in newer Godzilla films. To me, that's what made Godzilla what he is today. I don't know why, but I just don't like how the monster movies of today are made in CGI. To me, it's like the movies are a video game. They just don't have that "realistic" looking touch to them like the Godzilla movies do and it just makes me not want to watch them because I take the CGI films a lot less seriously. I just hope Toho keeps suitmation for when they make any more Godzilla movies.

The problem with suitmation is that it limits the audience these days - possibly even in Japan aswell - as people's expectations for effects rise. If Toho wanted to get wider distribution in the West then CGI is probably the only way to go - unless they can come up with a way of merging suits with CGI and making it realistic.

[Mechagigan]

I don't think practical FX like models and suits and fake blood will ever go away.

CGI was never intended to replace everything as the be all, end all FX. It was merely meant to be another tool in a set to help make movies easier. You tool box is rather limited when you only have one tool because all SFX no matter how good have a weakness. I think you get the best of both words when you use everything at your disposal instead of just relying on one thing.

I fully agree with this, in a personal taste.

However, for the Godzilla series future, I think it's needed. Not because I want it, but because audiences want it. Most average moviegoers look for cool effects; something like suitmation would be a laughingstock to those used to Cloverfield or G14 graphics.

[Godnose]

Which is hypocrisy cause no one rises a stink over Alien and Predator being rubber suited monsters.

Besides, Toho already uses CGI in their later Godzilla films along with practical, they just need to get better at it.

It's not really hypocrisy as the use of suits in those films is convincing. I remember the CGI aliens in 3 and 4 looked pretty bad and people commented they should stick to suits.

What the general audience don't want are obviously model cities, landscapes, vehicles etc.

I really like the scene in G v Megaguirus when the army are using rocket launchers in Osaka - but would love to see it done with convincing effects.

[Godnose]

The suitmation in Gamera the Brave is extremely well done - particularly Zedus. If Toho could top that in a Godzilla film then I'd be well happy.

[Tohosaurus]

It's not really hypocrisy as the use of suits in those films is convincing. I remember the CGI aliens in 3 and 4 looked pretty bad and people commented they should stick to suits.

What the general audience don't want are obviously model cities, landscapes, vehicles etc.

I really like the scene in G v Megaguirus when the army are using rocket launchers in Osaka - but would love to see it done with convincing effects.

I agree with this. For many people the "look" of many Godzilla movies is that the suits and miniatures are "cheap", which is never the impression one gets when watching Alien all the way back in 1979 or Predators in 2010. Budgets and time for good suits and miniatures may have been out of the question - I don't know. It seems entirely plausible that we could have brilliant Godzilla suits with great mobility, solid CGI enhancements, and life-like sets and miniatures. But time and money are not things the Godzilla franchise have often had. GFW was one of those rare cases and unfortunately it was invested in a movie no one seems to like that much, as opposed to GMK, etc. In the same fashion I think these things could apply to Toho distributed films like Space Battleship Yamato. If it was given only $10M to work with the movie probably wouldn't have looked half as great as it did; and it did look great, but the price tag was a costly $23M. Iris may have proven the potential of suits and miniatures on a cheap budget, and even that had its limitations.

The suitmation in Gamera the Brave is extremely well done - particularly Zedus. If Toho could top that in a Godzilla film then I'd be well happy.

I'd hope they could considering Brave was probably made for ~$7M - less than any of the Millennium Godzilla movies.

[Mechagigan]

I think before we really reach a yes-or-no point in the conversation, we should keep in mind that the most recent suitmation most of us have seen from Toho was made in 2004. Seeing as other Kaiju films such as Gamera the Brave, which had excellent special effects, came out a few years later, maybe Godzilla suitmation would look better now. Yes, that is a bit obvious, but it's relevant.

[ILL GREEN]

Though Edwards did an excellent job at a CGI Godzilla, I prefer my Godzilla in rubber. Final Wars did an excellent job at suitmation and mixing in CGI. And as Mechagigan mentioned Gamera the Brave also did an excellent collaboration of effects. Its here to stay and its traditional. Toho just needs to develop heavily in that department and to take it to another level.

[Godnose]

Toho just needs to develop heavily in that department and to take it to another level.

I agree and would love to see totally convincing practical effects in a Godzilla film - a mix of suitmation and cgi would be fine - but the more practical the better. In live actions films I think there's more of a connection with something on screen when it's a physical object and not computer generated no matter how convincing the CGI looks.

[Mechagigan]

Toho just needs to develop heavily in that department and to take it to another level.

I agree and would love to see totally convincing practical effects in a Godzilla film - a mix of suitmation and cgi would be fine - but the more practical the better. In live actions films I think there's more of a connection with something on screen when it's a physical object and not computer generated no matter how convincing the CGI looks.

I agree with that if it's a prop or character that is CGI'd. However, for something ridiculously large and unrelatable like Godzilla (or, for that matter, any Kaiju), I think it's fine. Godzilla doesn't directly interact with any humans or otherwise general living things, so it's not obvious that tha actors are looking at nothing.

[Godnose]

Toho just needs to develop heavily in that department and to take it to another level.

I agree and would love to see totally convincing practical effects in a Godzilla film - a mix of suitmation and cgi would be fine - but the more practical the better. In live actions films I think there's more of a connection with something on screen when it's a physical object and not computer generated no matter how convincing the CGI looks.

I agree with that if it's a prop or character that is CGI'd. However, for something ridiculously large and unrelatable like Godzilla (or, for that matter, any Kaiju), I think it's fine. Godzilla doesn't directly interact with any humans or otherwise general living things, so it's not obvious that tha actors are looking at nothing.

Yes, I didn't explain my point very clearly though. I think if a CGI monster gets slammed into a building, for example, the audience know it's completely fake. If it's a convincing suit/puppet then I think the impact is heightened as the audience know it's a physical object. It's like real vehicle stunts compared with CGI vehicle stunts - a real stunt is more impressive and has a greater impression on the audience.

[Mechagigan]

Yes, I didn't explain my point very clearly though. I think if a CGI monster gets slammed into a building, for example, the audience know it's completely fake. If it's a convincing suit/puppet then I think the impact is heightened as the audience know it's a physical object. It's like real vehicle stunts compared with CGI vehicle stunts - a real stunt is more impressive and has a greater impression on the audience.

Ah, now I get what you're saying. I agree, with suitmation, Kaiju movies - among others - seem to have more of a soul, as one can only imagine how hard it must have been to be knocked around in such massive and hot suits. It feels like more hard work was put into the final product, too.

[Godzilla Lover101]

I'd love to see Toho continue with suitmation. Obviously that depends if it's done right in a convincing way. People don't really want to see rubber monsters anymore done it the traditional style like the old Godzilla films where you know it's fake, even if it way seem real to us geeks. A blend of CGI and appropriate suit work would be interesting to see.

[kamilleblu]

I'd rather not see CGI completely take over the franchise, there's still a future for suitmation as long as it's executed properly. Godzilla vs. Biollante and Gamera 3 are evidence of that. Besides, I doubt that Toho is ready for CGI fests.

[Dino4ex]

CGI can be used for the destruction of buildings (adding smoke and details) and more details to the suits. Other then that I fine with suitmation as I enjoy it more than CGI. Of course Toho needs to up their game on the suitmation but a blend of both is fine.