Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:45 pm

Giga Kaiju wrote:
SuperSaiyan4Godzilla wrote:Watching the films, I came to the conclusion that Kiryu is Godzilla. Sure, we have the flesh-and-blood Godzilla that lumbers around, but I always found Kiryu to be more Godzilla than the lumbering beast we're given.

These two films are my favorite Godzilla films probably. I like how the universe is set up, the Godzilla mythos is spun extremely well. It feels...real.


Thats the aspect that i like about the film and Tokyo S.O.S, how it recognises other Toho films
and make it so that is a little bit like the Showa series.

Score,Acting,Special Efects, everything Perfect.


There is no such thing as "perfect" in film. There's always going to be a flaw in at least aspect of any and all films, especially in Godzilla X MechaGodzilla and Godzilla: Tokyo SOS.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby Biollante » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:46 pm

Maybe it's perfect from his perspective/standards.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:45 pm

Biollante wrote:Maybe it's perfect from his perspective/standards.


A "perfect film" implies that its a film that nobody can think of anything bad about it. There's always going to be some person out there to point out a film's flaws, which other people can then think about. Therefore, there is no such thing as a "perfect film". And if there were a perfect film, it sure wouldn't be Godzilla X MechaGodzilla.

If he thinks its a perfect film, then fine. But, he should at least know what other people say is wrong about the film. Like the many one-dimensional bland characters (except Akana), and the story forgetting about what the audience is here to see.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby shinmattiathekaiju » Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:03 am

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:Godzilla X MechaGodzilla is okay. It's not good, but it's not bad either. Akana is the only interesting character in the entire film, where everyone else is incredibly boring. The story, while different from most Godzilla stories, is not an interesting one and at times focuses too much on Akana, and not enough on Godzilla. I will say that it feels like the most realistic Godzilla film, but that can hurt the film as well, because I enjoy it when Godzilla goes into the implausible zone, which this film never pulls off well.



Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby tymon » Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:11 am

shinmattiathekaiju wrote:Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.


Wow, today's audiences must be gullible and stupid as all hell to think anything they're watching is "plausible".
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby Chris55 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 am

tymon wrote:
shinmattiathekaiju wrote:Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.


Wow, today's audiences must be gullible and stupid as all hell to think anything they're watching is "plausible".



Wait, wait, wait..so..Superman ISN'T real?
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby SuperSaiyan4Godzilla » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:17 am

tymon wrote:
shinmattiathekaiju wrote:Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.


Wow, today's audiences must be gullible and stupid as all hell to think anything they're watching is "plausible".


There's a certain amount of verisimilitude that goes with today's movies that past Godzilla films don't really have.

Inception is a crazy-ass film that is the least plausible film to come out in awhile. Yet, everyone loves it. Why? Because the writing was good and it had a bit of verisimilitude. You can make a ridiculous idea plausible with good writing.

And good writing is something the Godzilla films really don't have.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby Giga Kaiju » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:59 am

SuperSaiyan4Godzilla wrote:
tymon wrote:
shinmattiathekaiju wrote:Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.


Wow, today's audiences must be gullible and stupid as all hell to think anything they're watching is "plausible".


There's a certain amount of verisimilitude that goes with today's movies that past Godzilla films don't really have.

Inception is a crazy-ass film that is the least plausible film to come out in awhile. Yet, everyone loves it. Why? Because the writing was good and it had a bit of verisimilitude. You can make a ridiculous idea plausible with good writing.

And good writing is something the Godzilla films really don't have.


Inception was really good i thought the movie was a Blast a lot different from the summerblock films like Transformers,Etc.

I agree.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby shinmattiathekaiju » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:56 pm

SuperSaiyan4Godzilla wrote:
tymon wrote:
shinmattiathekaiju wrote:Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.


Wow, today's audiences must be gullible and stupid as all hell to think anything they're watching is "plausible".


There's a certain amount of verisimilitude that goes with today's movies that past Godzilla films don't really have.

Inception is a crazy-ass film that is the least plausible film to come out in awhile. Yet, everyone loves it. Why? Because the writing was good and it had a bit of verisimilitude. You can make a ridiculous idea plausible with good writing.

And good writing is something the Godzilla films really don't have.


Except Gojira,the 60's movies,the first three heisei movies + Destroyah,GMK and the Kiryu movies.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby omgitsgodzilla » Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:36 pm

SuperSaiyan4Godzilla wrote:
tymon wrote:
shinmattiathekaiju wrote:Because today's audience hates the implausible zone.


Wow, today's audiences must be gullible and stupid as all hell to think anything they're watching is "plausible".


There's a certain amount of verisimilitude that goes with today's movies that past Godzilla films don't really have.

Inception is a crazy-ass film that is the least plausible film to come out in awhile. Yet, everyone loves it. Why? Because the writing was good and it had a bit of verisimilitude. You can make a ridiculous idea plausible with good writing.

And good writing is something the Godzilla films really don't have.

Inception got away with it because everything surreal occurred in a dream. The only real stretch was people being able to meet - presumably with some good old Hollywood science - in the same dream.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby SuperSaiyan4Godzilla » Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:40 pm

shinmattiathekaiju wrote:Except Gojira,the 60's movies,the first three heisei movies + Destroyah,GMK and the Kiryu movies.


The 60s had spotty writing. You had films like Mothra vs Godzilla with solid writing, but the following film rehashed the Shobijin plot. Even the hotel scene was rehashed. Godzilla vs Monster Zero had an okay plot. The dialogue wasn't that fantastic. Some of the characters and relationships were poorly developed. Godzilla vs the Sea Monster had good writing. The characters were interesting, Mothra's addition was an interesting twist. It was nice seeing the Shobijin not being kidnapped. Son of Godzilla was good. Nothing to really add there. Destroy All Monsters has long, boring streaks in it where the characterization was lacking and the plot turned boring. Godzilla's Revenge is a good children's film and has good writing for one. My issues with the film is in its execution, not plot.

The Return of Godzilla and Godzilla vs. Biollante are well written films. Godzilla vs King Ghidorah is a slapdash film. Good special effects for the most part, horribly written plot. Godzilla vs Destoroyah is well written, but most of it issues follow the previous movies' examples: poor spfx and movie knock offs.

GMK's writing is decent. It characterizes the monsters and characters in some new, interesting ways. However, characters like Yuki are just bad. She's too archetypal and feels like a cut-out character rather than an actual character. Her friend with the glasses was interesting. The people in the BS station were more interesting than her. Her father was more interesting than her. When your main character isn't compelling or interesting, we have an issue with the writing.

Will I say that the Kiryu Saga has the BEST writing in the series? No. Will I say its the best we've got recently? Maybe. The characters are interesting for the most part. They are a little cliche but they all mix well. Where the good writing lies is in the world. Godzilla films -and most films in general- tend to fail at creating a world around it. When you create a world around your characters and actions, you enter another level. In the lesser quality Godzilla films, the movies feel episodic and that these are isolated events. Monsters fight and the world goes back to normal. Nothing actually happens. In the films with good writing, you can see and feel the presence these monsters have. Mothra vs Godzilla, you see the fear that Godzilla produces. In the Kiryu Saga, you can see the world's astonishment when another Godzilla appears. Something happens and you can see and feel it.

Sunnydale Syndrome works in some cases and fails in others. For the Godzilla films, it really detracts from the stories.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby Ethan » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:43 pm

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:
Biollante wrote:Maybe it's perfect from his perspective/standards.


A "perfect film" implies that its a film that nobody can think of anything bad about it. There's always going to be some person out there to point out a film's flaws, which other people can then think about. Therefore, there is no such thing as a "perfect film". And if there were a perfect film, it sure wouldn't be Godzilla X MechaGodzilla.

If he thinks its a perfect film, then fine. But, he should at least know what other people say is wrong about the film. Like the many one-dimensional bland characters (except Akana), and the story forgetting about what the audience is here to see.

I think a perfect film isn't one without flaws. Rather it's one that is so masterfully put together that the viewer doesn't see/care about the flaws. Such films do exist. Granted only Gojira fits into this category as far as the franchise is concerned.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby tymon » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:50 pm

Chris55 wrote:
Wait, wait, wait..so..Superman ISN'T real?


Fact: Superman is more plausible than Batman.

First person to explain why gets a cookie.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby SuperSaiyan4Godzilla » Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:02 pm

tymon wrote:
Chris55 wrote:
Wait, wait, wait..so..Superman ISN'T real?


Fact: Superman is more plausible than Batman.

First person to explain why gets a cookie.


Does it have to do with The Science of Superman by Mark Wolverton? I've yet to read Becoming Batman, but from what I skimmed through...Batman is just a pain in the ass to become.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:06 pm

Ethan wrote:
GotengoXGodzilla wrote:
Biollante wrote:Maybe it's perfect from his perspective/standards.


A "perfect film" implies that its a film that nobody can think of anything bad about it. There's always going to be some person out there to point out a film's flaws, which other people can then think about. Therefore, there is no such thing as a "perfect film". And if there were a perfect film, it sure wouldn't be Godzilla X MechaGodzilla.

If he thinks its a perfect film, then fine. But, he should at least know what other people say is wrong about the film. Like the many one-dimensional bland characters (except Akana), and the story forgetting about what the audience is here to see.

I think a perfect film isn't one without flaws. Rather it's one that is so masterfully put together that the viewer doesn't see/care about the flaws. Such films do exist. Granted only Gojira fits into this category as far as the franchise is concerned.

Well, even going by that, there's going to be someone out there that will say that a film isn't so masterfully put together and they do manage to find obvious flaws.

For example, my favorite film of all time is Apocalypse Now. Do I think its a perfect film? No, the film has its flaws. To me, the same can be said for every film. So, I believe that there is no such thing as a "perfect film".

As for the Godzilla films with the best writing, I think that the most well-written Godzilla films are Mothra vs. Godzilla and Son Of Godzilla. Both are able to make the human plot just as interesting as the monster plot, while also making the monsters actual characters in the film, rather than just an element of the plot. There are other Godzilla films that do that, but Mothra vs. Godzilla and Son Of Godzilla pull it off the best. Other well-written Godzilla films are Ebirah, Horror Of The Deep, Gojira and Godzilla vs. Biollante.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby shinmattiathekaiju » Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:07 am

SuperSaiyan4Godzilla wrote:
tymon wrote:
Chris55 wrote:
Wait, wait, wait..so..Superman ISN'T real?


Fact: Superman is more plausible than Batman.

First person to explain why gets a cookie.


Does it have to do with The Science of Superman by Mark Wolverton? I've yet to read Becoming Batman, but from what I skimmed through...Batman is just a pain in the ass to become.


First of all,you have to get your parents killed after watching a Zorro movie.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby Ethan » Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:50 am

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:Well, even going by that, there's going to be someone out there that will say that a film isn't so masterfully put together and they do manage to find obvious flaws.

For example, my favorite film of all time is Apocalypse Now. Do I think its a perfect film? No, the film has its flaws. To me, the same can be said for every film. So, I believe that there is no such thing as a "perfect film".

As for the Godzilla films with the best writing, I think that the most well-written Godzilla films are Mothra vs. Godzilla and Son Of Godzilla. Both are able to make the human plot just as interesting as the monster plot, while also making the monsters actual characters in the film, rather than just an element of the plot. There are other Godzilla films that do that, but Mothra vs. Godzilla and Son Of Godzilla pull it off the best. Other well-written Godzilla films are Ebirah, Horror Of The Deep, Gojira and Godzilla vs. Biollante.

But that someone's opinion that a film isn't masterfully put together doesn't negate its quality. If so one could argue that there's no such thing a good film because everything is at the mercy of opinions. Some of the films I consider masterpieces are often critized beyond reason, and I still consider such opinions irrelevant when I watch the film.

Regarding Godzilla X Mechagodzilla, I think it's fairly entertaining. Easily the third best Mechagodzilla film.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby Gojira-Fan » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:44 am

SuperSaiyan4Godzilla wrote:
shinmattiathekaiju wrote:Except Gojira,the 60's movies,the first three heisei movies + Destroyah,GMK and the Kiryu movies.




GMK's writing is decent. It characterizes the monsters and characters in some new, interesting ways. However, characters like Yuki are just bad. She's too archetypal and feels like a cut-out character rather than an actual character. Her friend with the glasses was interesting. The people in the BS station were more interesting than her. Her father was more interesting than her. When your main character isn't compelling or interesting, we have an issue with the writing.



Eh, I would disagree with that. Who's more interesting in Gojira, Ogata (the main character) or Dr. Serizawa? In Terror of Mechagodzilla, Biologist Sasaki ( the main character) or Katsura?

A well-developed, interesting main-character may be necessary in a character piece, but most of the Godzilla movies aren't those. The only Godzilla film I can think of that fits that bill is ALL MONSTERS ATTACK.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby SuperSaiyan4Godzilla » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:54 pm

Gojira-Fan wrote:
SuperSaiyan4Godzilla wrote:
shinmattiathekaiju wrote:Except Gojira,the 60's movies,the first three heisei movies + Destroyah,GMK and the Kiryu movies.




GMK's writing is decent. It characterizes the monsters and characters in some new, interesting ways. However, characters like Yuki are just bad. She's too archetypal and feels like a cut-out character rather than an actual character. Her friend with the glasses was interesting. The people in the BS station were more interesting than her. Her father was more interesting than her. When your main character isn't compelling or interesting, we have an issue with the writing.



Eh, I would disagree with that. Who's more interesting in Gojira, Ogata (the main character) or Dr. Serizawa? In Terror of Mechagodzilla, Biologist Sasaki ( the main character) or Katsura?

A well-developed, interesting main-character may be necessary in a character piece, but most of the Godzilla movies aren't those. The only Godzilla film I can think of that fits that bill is ALL MONSTERS ATTACK.


I don't find Serizawa to be that compelling. Sure, he has more dimension than the characters around him, but that's about all he has. I also don't find Katsura to be an interesting character. The characters I've seen in Godzilla films are a dime-a-dozen in science fiction.

And there's a key issue with your thinking: Thinking that Godzilla films are not character pieces. Its almost like you're excusing the horrible writing because these films are naturally inferior (or superior?) or different from any other form of story telling. Which they're not.
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Re: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:12 pm

Ethan wrote:
GotengoXGodzilla wrote:Well, even going by that, there's going to be someone out there that will say that a film isn't so masterfully put together and they do manage to find obvious flaws.

For example, my favorite film of all time is Apocalypse Now. Do I think its a perfect film? No, the film has its flaws. To me, the same can be said for every film. So, I believe that there is no such thing as a "perfect film".

As for the Godzilla films with the best writing, I think that the most well-written Godzilla films are Mothra vs. Godzilla and Son Of Godzilla. Both are able to make the human plot just as interesting as the monster plot, while also making the monsters actual characters in the film, rather than just an element of the plot. There are other Godzilla films that do that, but Mothra vs. Godzilla and Son Of Godzilla pull it off the best. Other well-written Godzilla films are Ebirah, Horror Of The Deep, Gojira and Godzilla vs. Biollante.

But that someone's opinion that a film isn't masterfully put together doesn't negate its quality. If so one could argue that there's no such thing a good film because everything is at the mercy of opinions. Some of the films I consider masterpieces are often critized beyond reason, and I still consider such opinions irrelevant when I watch the film.


Really, it all just comes down to how someone would define a "perfect film". Obviously, you and I have different definitions of what that would be and neither of us want to change our own definitions, which is fine.
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