Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

[SnickersGoji]

I liked the movie, though the Godzilla in this one didn't seem to have much going on in his head.

[S9y]

I really like this one. Kiryu is a very interesting monster. The soundtrack is awesome too.

Hey imagine if they made a robot of the mom who's name I forget

[Maverick Centigrade]

I rewatched this the other day, along with Tokyo SOS. It is still one of my favorite Godzilla movies, of they all. Good Godzilla design, as well as a good Mecha Godzilla design. Pyrotechnics are well done. I'd say the weakest part of the movie is the real...emo lead. Damn was she a buzz kill sometimes, lol. Overall, it's a good fun filled Godzilla flick.

[ILL GREEN]

This one was 10x better than the heisei film. Battle was epic too. Probably the first G flick where Godzilla was defeated by a woman. I liked that they showed hand to hand combat between the two and not too much a beamathon.

[EdGojira]

The designs of Mechagodzilla and Godzilla are great. Kiryu is interesting. On the downside, Godzilla is an idiot in this one. The lead isn't very entertaining, either.

[eabaker]

The lead isn't very entertaining, either.

Gonna have to disagree with you on this one. I found Akane to be one of the more compelling leads we've had in a long while.

Like everything about this movie, I think Akane is great in concept, and totally bland in practice.

[Legionmaster]

Like everything about this movie, I think Akane is great in concept, and totally bland in practice.

But she was friends with a plant! And then was friends with a person who was friends with a plant! Drama!

[Godzillian]

Akane is an interesting lead and was a good character to have pilot Kiryu especially with her history with Godzilla. I wonder why Toho never reused some of these characters in Tokyo SOS besides that scene where Akane says bye to Kiryu.

[eabaker]

^In the 2000s, Toho seemed to get in the habit of marketing the new "Godzilla girl" for each movie, kinda the way Hammer did when ever they rpemiered a new horror starlet. I'm guessing that they wanted a new line-up in part so that they had a new face to promote.

[Rodan]

This one was 10x better than the heisei film.

I really have to disagree. The Heisei film isn't outstanding, but, among many other things, it feels like a fully realized, actual movie, and a perfectly fine effort for 1993.

By comparison (really, just on its own) everything about Against Mechagodzilla feels cheap and rushed. The plot literally feels half-written (as in, the main conflict is written out in the second half, along with anything resembling a complete character arc). It's another "Who are we supposed to cheer for?" film (Kiryu using Godzilla's bones is bad, right? He even goes on a rampage. But everything else in the film portrays him as a syrupy super-mech. We never get much of a reason to hate this Godzilla either, which is pretty key for any film casting him as the villain, and is usually done for better).

Visually, Jesus. The CGI effects here are Sci-Fi Channel level, even for 2002. I think everything involving the Absolute-Zero Cannon may actually be the worst in the series. This is also one of, if not the single, most transparently suitmation entry in the series, which is totally unforgivable for when it came out. There are attempts to give certain monster actions anime-esque super-speed through inconsistently applied motion blur that looks even more ludicrous here than in vs. Megaguirus (and they do the same thing with planes where it looks just as bad). Monsters fly into buildings at 90 degree angles because that's what they could do with the empty suits. They stand up without pushing themselves up for the same reason. Both of these happen numerous times. The Godzilla suit itself is particularly lifeless this time around, too, both in terms of emoting and, weirdly, its dry, rubbery texture, which loses a level of realism the previous three films had. Everything just looks astoundingly awful, and there's no excuse for it. It's an action-figure fight.

It doesn't help that the direction furthers all those flaws and the general Sci-Fi Channel feel. The muted color filters give it a kind of handy-cam feel, and everything is filmed at flat or almost flat angles, giving no sense of scale to the monster fights (something Godzilla 2000 and GMK do quite well). This really hurts simulacrum when combined with all the slipshod suitmation mentioned above.

I don't really hate any Godzilla movies, but damn, this one comes close. Even then, most of my affection for it comes from its ideas, which, as eabaker pointed out, are torn to shreds by its execution.

I will say that of any single entry in the series, this is the one I'm most baffled Toho let out the door when they did.

[eabaker]

^Very well said, sir!

I'd elaborate that, not only aren't we given a reason to hate this Godzilla, we aren't given a reason or an opportunity to feel much of anything for him at all. I'm hard pressed to think of another Godzilla movie in which he receives so little characterization. Even if all he gets to be in GFW is "grumpy ass-kicker," that's at least some kind of personality.

[Legionmaster]

^Very well said, sir!

I'd elaborate that, not only aren't we given a reason to hate this Godzilla, we aren't given a reason or an opportunity to feel much of anything for him at all. I'm hard pressed to think of another Godzilla movie in which he receives so little characterization. Even if all he gets to be in GFW is "grumpy ass-kicker," that's at least some kind of personality.

Well that's because this is a Kiryu movie, not a Godzilla movie. It's too busy giving a personality to a robot and poorly characterizing what should be interesting characters.

[Godzillian]

Its because the movie is to busy showing the scientist try to get with Akane and his daughter running around HQ with her plant.

[ILL GREEN]

This one was 10x better than the heisei film.

I really have to disagree. The Heisei film isn't outstanding, but, among many other things, it feels like a fully realized, actual movie, and a perfectly fine effort for 1993.

By comparison (really, just on its own) everything about Against Mechagodzilla feels cheap and rushed. The plot literally feels half-written (as in, the main conflict is written out in the second half, along with anything resembling a complete character arc). It's another "Who are we supposed to cheer for?" film (Kiryu using Godzilla's bones is bad, right? He even goes on a rampage. But everything else in the film portrays him as a syrupy super-mech. We never get much of a reason to hate this Godzilla either, which is pretty key for any film casting him as the villain, and is usually done for better).

Visually, Jesus. The CGI effects here are Sci-Fi Channel level, even for 2002. I think everything involving the Absolute-Zero Cannon may actually be the worst in the series. This is also one of, if not the single, most transparently suitmation entry in the series, which is totally unforgivable for when it came out. There are attempts to give certain monster actions anime-esque super-speed through inconsistently applied motion blur that looks even more ludicrous here than in vs. Megaguirus (and they do the same thing with planes where it looks just as bad). Monsters fly into buildings at 90 degree angles because that's what they could do with the empty suits. They stand up without pushing themselves up for the same reason. Both of these happen numerous times. The Godzilla suit itself is particularly lifeless this time around, too, both in terms of emoting and, weirdly, its dry, rubbery texture, which loses a level of realism the previous three films had. Everything just looks astoundingly awful, and there's no excuse for it. It's an action-figure fight.

It doesn't help that the direction furthers all those flaws and the general Sci-Fi Channel feel. The muted color filters give it a kind of handy-cam feel, and everything is filmed at flat or almost flat angles, giving no sense of scale to the monster fights (something Godzilla 2000 and GMK do quite well). This really hurts simulacrum when combined with all the slipshod suitmation mentioned above.

I don't really hate any Godzilla movies, but damn, this one comes close. Even then, most of my affection for it comes from its ideas, which, as eabaker pointed out, are torn to shreds by its execution.

I will say that of any single entry in the series, this is the one I'm most baffled Toho let out the door when they did.

I took this into consideration and watched it again and I have to disagree. Heisei MechaGodzilla was like a portable microwave that needs to be charged every five minutes compared to Kiryu. Also, the battles in heisei were more like a laser light show than close combat. GMK you can say had SyFy effects but the effects here were pretty on point considering that these movies are always made on a tight budget. This MG had missles, lasers, electric shock, the whole schebang while the other had lasers and tasers.

Godzilla's suit looked exceptionally good as well, did not looked dry at all, though I did yearn for some eye movement but all he does is widen his eyes. His suit look organic especially around the neck.

Overall, the story was great as well along with the visuals. The touches in this movie is anything but rushed, they stretched their budget. I find the heisei movie good but felt like an outlet for Toho to show off their special efx arsenal and not enough focus on MG as a superior opponent. Here, it was all about MG.

Godzilla in the millennium movies or any series, is the big strong monster that destroys things in his path. Thats the reason to rid of him. He probably destroyed the house of the prime minister's grandmother, believe me there is a lot to hate on the monster in that universe. Kiryu was built because Godzilla comes and goes when he feels like it leaving a mess so he is there to "police" the mighty G.

[eabaker]

I took this into consideration and watched it again and I have to disagree. Heisei MechaGodzilla was like a portable microwave that needs to be charged every five minutes compared to Kiryu.

Well, yeah, that was kind of the concept. Heisei Mechagodzilla was supposed to be a cumbersom, imperfect machine, and they conveyed that effectively.

Also, the battles in heisei were more like a laser light show than close combat.

This is certainly true.

GMK you can say had SyFy effects but the effects here were pretty on point considering that these movies are always made on a tight budget.

But the lighting and camera placement in GMK served to make everything look natural and give it all a sense of scale, as well as an effective atmosphere. The lighting and photography in GxMG are both so flat that they come off more as references to show what the sets and the costumes actually look like, not as actual attempts to create an immersive environment.

Godzilla's suit looked exceptionally good as well, did not looked dry at all, though I did yearn for some eye movement but all he does is widen his eyes. His suit look organic especially around the neck.

Here, I just have to wonder if we were watching the same movie. I've never felt as much like Godzilla was made of hard plastic.

[Legionmaster]

Here, I just have to wonder if we were watching the same movie. I've never felt as much like Godzilla was made of hard plastic.

Yeah. It's probably the worst executed suit in the entire series. Especially with how well the Kiryu suits moves comparatively. And later how well the Mothra props move. And those awful glass bead eyes.

[EdGojira]

I do like that Godzilla and Kiryu actually fight...
http://24.media.tumblr.com/0e93cf1653a2 ... o3_500.gif

Hand to hand combat is a definite plus for this movie but does it seem to anybody else that Godzilla usually just stands there while he gets his butt kicked?

[Rodan]

I'm not going to deny that it's nice to get hand-to-hand combat after all the beam-firing of the Heisei series, but it's kind of hard to get into when it's ruined by all the things I mentioned in my previous post -- the toy-looking Godzilla suit (which I just have to agree with eabaker on; it may be more fleshed out than some of the Heisei suits, but its texture is distractingly like that of a ... vinyl toy, I guess?), the absolutely ridiculous motion blur, the 90-degree suit tosses, the lack of scale, etc. All of that detracts from what should the movie's one high point: the fight. It's fun in parts, but it still doesn't feel like it was ready for release.

Godzilla in the millennium movies or any series, is the big strong monster that destroys things in his path. Thats the reason to rid of him. He probably destroyed the house of the prime minister's grandmother, believe me there is a lot to hate on the monster in that universe. Kiryu was built because Godzilla comes and goes when he feels like it leaving a mess so he is there to "police" the mighty G.

On an intellectual level, I realize of course that a giant, city-destroying monster popping up every once in a while is an objectively bad thing and deserves both fear and counter measures. My issue is that here, if Godzilla is the villain (which gets all mixed up because of the whole Kiryu thing, and not in an intentional feeling way), we're just not sold on it emotionally. Even moreso because Godzilla's role has varied from pure evil to superhero over his film history, so each new entry goes in sort of tabula rasa and is responsible for establishing its version.

Thinking even of the early Heisei films, they sell us on Godzilla being a Bad Thing: We see him trash an entire city, we get main characters trapped in a building as he begins to destroy it, maybe a character is killed by him, etc. That's all it really takes. That just isn't present here; sure, Akane has her backstory, but that feels weak, especially since, if I recall correctly, it includes the SDF attacking him in a forest with no tangible danger. And all he does when he shows up later is -- what? Wrecks a building or two on the coast? Like Godzilla '98, this is a film where the military is responsible for just as much if not more damage than Godzilla is.

[kamilleblu]

Out of all the military focused Godzilla films, I probably like the Kiryu Saga's take on it the most. Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla and its sequel feels like a Godzilla film injected with a (mecha) anime. If only the films had more interesting characters and better overall execution. Also, I'm not really a fan of the Godzilla presented in these films because he sort of lacks personality. After seeing that there was still interest in the series, Toho should have started taking more time with the films and built Godzilla's reputation back up. I would have been okay with only this film being released after GMK and then Godzilla: Tokyo SOS being the 50th Anniversary film as long as more time had been devoted to each.

[Mechagigan]

This movie was just Okay, but Dear Lord, the Dub...
It's just awful. The little girl sounded like she was 40 years old, the random one-shot kids all sounded like Spongebob after breathing nothing but helium for weeks, and the main characters all had unbelievably bland and lifeless voice actors. The dub seriously ruins the movie.