Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

[Kaijugriffey]

I suspect a lot of the preferences between the characters in GvMeg and GXM will depend heavily on the order in which the viewer saw the film's. Which goes for a lot of Godzilla movies.

[godzillalives88]

I suspect a lot of the preferences between the characters in GvMeg and GXM will depend heavily on the order in which the viewer saw the film's. Which goes for a lot of Godzilla movies.

I'm in a (I assume) minority of people who actually prefers Megaguirus to Tezuka's two Kiryu films. I find the human characters pretty equal across all three, but I feel like Megaguirus generally does more interesting things with its kaiju. For example, the scene of Misato riding Godzilla, Godzilla being attacked by the Meganula swarm, the flooded city, Megaguirus as an opponent that's literally too fast for Godzilla to catch - these are all things I haven't seen as often as I have Godzilla/Mechagodzilla/Mothra grappling. In fact, really the only two things that the Kiryu films have on Megaguirus for me are better effects, and more streamlined world building (though to be fair, I kinda find the revised timelines for both Megaguirus and the Kiyru saga to be pretty unnecessary).

[eabaker]

I suspect a lot of the preferences between the characters in GvMeg and GXM will depend heavily on the order in which the viewer saw the film's. Which goes for a lot of Godzilla movies.

I'm in a (I assume) minority of people who actually prefers Megaguirus to Tezuka's two Kiryu films. I find the human characters pretty equal across all three, but I feel like Megaguirus generally does more interesting things with its kaiju. For example, the scene of Misato riding Godzilla, Godzilla being attacked by the Meganula swarm, the flooded city, Megaguirus as an opponent that's literally too fast for Godzilla to catch - these are all things I haven't seen as often as I have Godzilla/Mechagodzilla/Mothra grappling. In fact, really the only two things that the Kiryu films have on Megaguirus for me are better effects, and more streamlined world building (though to be fair, I kinda find the revised timelines for both Megaguirus and the Kiyru saga to be pretty unnecessary).

While these days I waver a little bit on whether I prefer Megaguirus or Against Mechagodzilla (no wavering on Toyko SOS, which is solidly my least-favorite Toho-produced Godzilla movie), I usually come back to Megaguirus. While Against Mechagodzilla gives a little bit more depth to (a couple of) characters, it unfortunately doesn't do much to pay off anything that it sets up. Megaguirus doesn't try for the same kind of emotional or thematic weight, but at the level of visual cinematic experience, it goes for the gusto more. Misato riding Godzilla is the absolute highlight of the movie for me, and especially benefits from being seen on the big screen (it's unfortunate that we get so few opportunities to watch the movies this way, and end up judging them based on formats other than the one for which they were fundamentally designed).

[godzillalives88]

I suspect a lot of the preferences between the characters in GvMeg and GXM will depend heavily on the order in which the viewer saw the film's. Which goes for a lot of Godzilla movies.

I'm in a (I assume) minority of people who actually prefers Megaguirus to Tezuka's two Kiryu films. I find the human characters pretty equal across all three, but I feel like Megaguirus generally does more interesting things with its kaiju. For example, the scene of Misato riding Godzilla, Godzilla being attacked by the Meganula swarm, the flooded city, Megaguirus as an opponent that's literally too fast for Godzilla to catch - these are all things I haven't seen as often as I have Godzilla/Mechagodzilla/Mothra grappling. In fact, really the only two things that the Kiryu films have on Megaguirus for me are better effects, and more streamlined world building (though to be fair, I kinda find the revised timelines for both Megaguirus and the Kiyru saga to be pretty unnecessary).

While these days I waver a little bit on whether I prefer Megaguirus or Against Mechagodzilla (no wavering on Toyko SOS, which is solidly my least-favorite Toho-produced Godzilla movie), I usually come back to Megaguirus. While Against Mechagodzilla gives a little bit more depth to (a couple of) characters, it unfortunately doesn't do much to pay off anything that it sets up. Megaguirus doesn't try for the same kind of emotional or thematic weight, but at the level of visual cinematic experience, it goes for the gusto more. Misato riding Godzilla is the absolute highlight of the movie for me, and especially benefits from being seen on the big screen (it's unfortunate that we get so few opportunities to watch the movies this way, and end up judging them based on formats other than the one for which they were fundamentally designed).

I'm not a big Tokyo SOS fan either. It's not that I think it's a bad movie per se, I just don't think it brings ANYTHING new to the franchise (which is something I can't even say about movies like Megalon or SpaceGodzilla).

Really, my biggest problem with the Kiryu saga is it's one good movie spread over two mediocre ones. GxM has all the setup, Tokyo SOS has most of the payoff, but neither has enough story between them to justify more than one film. At least IMO.

[eabaker]

Really, my biggest problem with the Kiryu saga is it's one good movie spread over two mediocre ones. GxM has all the setup, Tokyo SOS has most of the payoff, but neither has enough story between them to justify more than one film. At least IMO.

That's pretty much exactly my opinion, too.

[tymon]

I always thought it would be an interesting project to edit the two films together into one tight, ninety minute movie.

[eabaker]

I always thought it would be an interesting project to edit the two films together into one tight, ninety minute movie.

The only problem with that is the shift in the human cast. I suppose, with careful re-dubbing, you could eliminate most of the cast of Toyko SOS (except for the characters directly involved in the Mothra storyline).

[Space Hunter M]

I always thought it would be an interesting project to edit the two films together into one tight, ninety minute movie.

Somebody already did that, but I never found it worth my time since it looked so poorly done.

[Mechagigan]

I always thought it would be an interesting project to edit the two films together into one tight, ninety minute movie.

The only problem with that is the shift in the human cast. I suppose, with careful re-dubbing, you could eliminate most of the cast of Toyko SOS (except for the characters directly involved in the Mothra storyline).

You could keep them in the very beginning, occasionally cut to the old man (excuse my forgetting his name) talking to the prime minister about stopping the Kiryu project, or the little boy asking about his involvement with Mothra, and have them somewhere at the end. Make them minor characters, but relevant.

[Lain Of The Wired]

After rewatching the original Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla, I wonder if Kiryu was named "machine dragon" because Mechagodzilla is called a "dragon" in King Caesar's song back in the original movie?

[GodzillaRangerPrime]

Godzilla did nothing during the first meeting with Kiryu because he wasn't there to fight.
He probably came only because he sensed the 1954 Godzilla when Kiryu was turned on.

Kiryu shot first

A lot of the time when Godzilla comes to shore, it has to do with the bones used to make Kiryu.

He appeared in 1999 because the bones of the 1954 Godzilla were taken from the sea.
He came to land in 2003 because Kiryu was turned on.
Same stuff happens in SOS

[szmigiel]

Godzilla did nothing during the first meeting with Kiryu because he wasn't there to fight.
He probably came only because he sensed the 1954 Godzilla when Kiryu was turned on.

Kiryu shot first

A lot of the time when Godzilla comes to shore, it has to do with the bones used to make Kiryu.

He appeared in 1999 because the bones of the 1954 Godzilla were taken from the sea.
He came to land in 2003 because Kiryu was turned on.
Same stuff happens in SOS

But Kiryu was turned on earlier to test the absolute zero cannon, and Godzilla didn't show up.
Plus I am pretty sure he was activated plenty of times during construction for testing purposes.
It is like Godzilla was unaware of Kiryu construction till the news conference was broadcasted.

[Godzillian]

Godzilla did nothing during the first meeting with Kiryu because he wasn't there to fight.
He probably came only because he sensed the 1954 Godzilla when Kiryu was turned on.

Kiryu shot first

A lot of the time when Godzilla comes to shore, it has to do with the bones used to make Kiryu.

He appeared in 1999 because the bones of the 1954 Godzilla were taken from the sea.
He came to land in 2003 because Kiryu was turned on.
Same stuff happens in SOS

But Kiryu was turned on earlier to test the absolute zero cannon, and Godzilla didn't show up.
Plus I am pretty sure he was activated plenty of times during construction for testing purposes.
It is like Godzilla was unaware of Kiryu construction till the news conference was broadcasted.

I don't think Godzilla came to shore when kiryu was completed just to find it. It was more of coincidence. He seemed pretty unsure how to react to Kiryu when it first appeared too.

[szmigiel]

I don't think Godzilla came to shore when kiryu was completed just to find it. It was more of coincidence. He seemed pretty unsure how to react to Kiryu when it first appeared too.

Godzilla comings and goings really make no sense, other then the plot needs him too. They make even less sense when you bring Tokyo SOS into it.
It is like Godzilla waiting on the human plot to finish up before he can make his appearances.

He needs to show up at the start of the film because Akane needs a reason to blame Godzilla for her mistake which results in the commanders death. And of course give the government a reason to build Kiryu.
Godzilla needs to show up once Kiryu is finished, otherwise it is just awkward interaction between the scientist and Akane, and tension with the Kiryu squad.
Godzilla needed to leave because the plot need to focus on Kiryu going berserk.
And of course Godzilla needs to show up at the end for the climax, but that goes without saying.

It could have been more interesting if Godzilla would of shown up before Kiryu was fully finished. Maybe once early in construction which makes everyone rush to try and finish, and then again later and having them send out Kiryu before 100% tested and then goes berserk. Make the plot react to Godzilla not the other way around.

[Giga Kaiju]

^ In other words, because of PLOT. Otherwise, things would have gone differently if Kiryu wasn't finished by the time that Godzilla arrived the shore.

That sort of happened in SOS, with them not having the 'big diamond to fix tomorrow' and instead used the Hyper Maser on Kiryu.

[szmigiel]

^ In other words, because of PLOT.

Or in other words BAD PLOT

[Giga Kaiju]

Exactly. Managing the events of a movie/tv show/any media for convenience.

[Mini-Godzilla]

Highway to the danger zone! You can be my wingman anytime, Akane!

Wataru Mimura's fourth Goji script plays like a Greatest Hits of his first three. We have an improved version of the reinvented Mechagodzilla from the 1993 film, a superior recycling of the single father with a precocious daughter from G2K, and a vastly better take on the female soldier with a grudge against the Big G from Megaguirus. And it has essentially none of those movies' problems, either, which is a huge plus. In fact, if someone asked me what the post-Showa films were like, this one is the movie I'd direct them to watch. It is the best Mechagodzilla film, and it's the best Godzilla film since the 1960s.

[Lain Of The Wired]

Eh, I thought this film was pretty lame myself.
Kiryu going bananas was cool though, but the plot hindered absolute zero canon got annoying

[Giga Kaiju]

Kiryu going berserk has to be the most memorable scene in the entire movie. It was the most Showa-MG-esque fitting moment with the recent MG's.