Off Thought about Millennium Continuity

[Desghidorah]

The Millennium age always seemed to stick out a lot to me compared to the other two main eras because it's the only one that had almost no continuity to speak of. The Heisei era had a very rigid continuity, and while the Showa age was a lot more lax about it's timeline; call backs were still there and it was the same Godzilla film to film. Now this isn't hating on the Millennum era, some of its films are my favorites in the series (GxMG, G2k); it's just an observation.

I was a bit curious at why no attempt as connections was made outside of once or twice, even when the fix seemed easy. Just tweak a few lines from Godzilla vs. Megaguirus and boom, it's a sequel to Godzilla:2000. Then I noticed some of the reoccurring trends with both the Showa and Heisei age, namely the people behind them.

The Showa era had all three of the men considered Godzilla's principle creators behind it at various steps, some more than others. Tomoyuki Tanaka, Ishiro Honda, and Eiji Tsuburaya. And while the latter two didn't do much work on the Heisei age (Honda was dead), Tanaka was still the executive producer of all the Godzilla films until his death right after Godzilla vs. Destoroyah; a film with extensive connections to both the previous Heisei films and the original 1954 piece.

So the Millennium age was the only era with no input by the original creators. It was also the only age that hit the 'reset button' every other movie. Do you think the two events might be linked?

[Kaiju no Kami]

I think it was just more of Toho wanting to try something new and allow new blood to test the reigns of a Godzilla movie without being restricted by what happened in the previous movie. Honestly, if Tezuka wasn't hired to return for the 2003 movie, I doubt it would have been a sequel to GxMG.

[Mr. Xeno]

I believe it was stated by someone with connections that the Millennium films were all made as individual films in order to more easily sell them overseas. The continuity of the Heisei films is supposedly one of the reasons why they sat unsold to foreign markets until the release of G'98.

[20th Century Boy]

I believe it was stated by someone with connections that the Millennium films were all made as individual films in order to more easily sell them overseas.

This, and I also heard that Toho wanted to give a variety of directors more control over their films without continuity hampering their intended vision of Godzilla. Pretty ironic, considering the restrictive stranglehold that Kaneko was placed in for GMK and the fact that Tezuka directed half the movies in the series.

[Missingno.]

What never helped with this series' nonexistent continuity was when they used the G2000 suit in Godzilla vs Megaguirus, complete with the same roar, atomic breath, etc.. I wish this series had more continuity than it did, though that also means something like GMK could've never happened...

[Spuro]

Just watch G2K AFTER GxM.

Boom. GxM becomes an instant prequel.

[Kaiju no Kami]

What never helped with this series' nonexistent continuity was when they used the G2000 suit in Godzilla vs Megaguirus, complete with the same roar, atomic breath, etc.. I wish this series had more continuity than it did, though that also means something like GMK could've never happened...

The suits aren't exact though. There have been modifications made and obviously it was given a new paint job.

[Tohosaurus]

I believe it was stated by someone with connections that the Millennium films were all made as individual films in order to more easily sell them overseas. The continuity of the Heisei films is supposedly one of the reasons why they sat unsold to foreign markets until the release of G'98.

This.

I actually like the idea too to this day. Although the lack of continuity may bother some, I like more creative, unique concepts that might have happened. In reality, GMK is the only one that really succeeded on this idea. The never-made post-apocalyptic Godzilla vs Mothra film (which would have been released in 2003 and not GTSOS) was another idea: fresh concept as we've never had a post-apocalyptic Godzilla film and would've provided a unique dynamic to the film. Similarly, the older idea of 1989's "Godzilla 2" (which became Gunhed) would have been highly interesting: Godzilla in the future battling machines. These were simply more interesting ideas that should have been realized in a situation where Toho would allow for stand alone films that can develop their own stories. Of course it's hard to speculate whether or not Toho would more seriously return to this idea in the future, but I'd like them to in order to achieve what they could have originally.

[eabaker]

Yeah, I thought the "only beholden to the original" approach was a great way to free up each filmmaker to tell an original story. It always disappointed me that, following GMK, they brought back Tezuka (and then even had him do something with continuity), rather than continuing to play and experiment with different, distinctive directors and worlds.

[Tohosaurus]

Yeah, I thought the "only beholden to the original" approach was a great way to free up each filmmaker to tell an original story. It always disappointed me that, following GMK, they brought back Tezuka (and then even had him do something with continuity), rather than continuing to play and experiment with different, distinctive directors and worlds.

I'm sure that's on account of the typically conservative Toho. And I wonder if studio requirements were that G54 was the basis for each universe or if the talent behind the films wanted it that way (as in staying faithful to that ironic film or with G98 in hindsight being fearful of deviating from the historical basis too much), or maybe both depending on the project at hand. Because I'd have been fine with them not always keeping G54 as the starting point. Godzilla film set hundreds of years ago? Sign me up!

[eabaker]

Yeah, I thought the "only beholden to the original" approach was a great way to free up each filmmaker to tell an original story. It always disappointed me that, following GMK, they brought back Tezuka (and then even had him do something with continuity), rather than continuing to play and experiment with different, distinctive directors and worlds.

I'm sure that's on account of the typically conservative Toho. And I wonder if studio requirements were that G54 was the basis for each universe or if the talent behind the films wanted it that way (as in staying faithful to that ironic film or with G98 in hindsight being fearful of deviating from the historical basis too much), or maybe both depending on the project at hand. Because I'd have been fine with them not always keeping G54 as the starting point. Godzilla film set hundreds of years ago? Sign me up!

My (vague) recollection from the time is that Shogo Tomiyama made that a specific requirement.

[kamilleblu]

Instead of drastic changes, why couldn't they have gone for loose continuity? Keep references to previous films as only nods to hardcore fans. With a little reworking G2k, Megaguirus, and the Kiryu Trilogy could all fit in the same timeline. Godzilla's continuous attacks created the need for stronger weapons.

[eabaker]

Instead of drastic changes, why couldn't they have gone for loose continuity? Keep references to previous films as only nods to hardcore fans. With a little reworking G2k, Megaguirus, and the Kiryu Trilogy could all fit in the same timeline. Godzilla's continuous attacks created the need for stronger weapons.

Because that still would have limited the ability of the writers and directors to go in completely new directions; there's no way something like GMK or Final Wars could have been achieved under a "loose continuity" policy.

Also, what would be the point?

[godzillalives88]

I think my biggest issue with the Millennium series is that it doesn't embrace its own format. Rather than get 6 wildly different films, we get 4 that could've easily been sequels to each other (G2K and Tezuka's 3 films), and two that breakaway but also feel tampered with on some level. Ideally, we would have gotten something like GMK each time out, with each new installment being a dramatic departure from the previous one.

[eabaker]

I think my biggest issue with the Millennium series is that it doesn't embrace its own format. Rather than get 6 wildly different films, we get 4 that could've easily been sequels to each other (G2K and Tezuka's 3 films), and two that breakaway but also feel tampered with on some level. Ideally, we would have gotten something like GMK each time out, with each new installment being a dramatic departure from the previous one.

Yeah, my opinion is pretty much completely in line with what you've just said.

I do think Megaguirus at least has a different enough tone and style than G2K that the first three Millennium movies feel like they're all in the spirit of the project; it's really with Against Mechagodzilla and Tokyo SOS that the whole concept just feels utterly betrayed.

[Tohosaurus]

I think my biggest issue with the Millennium series is that it doesn't embrace its own format. Rather than get 6 wildly different films, we get 4 that could've easily been sequels to each other (G2K and Tezuka's 3 films), and two that breakaway but also feel tampered with on some level. Ideally, we would have gotten something like GMK each time out, with each new installment being a dramatic departure from the previous one.

Exactly.

Yeah, my opinion is pretty much completely in line with what you've just said.

I do think Megaguirus at least has a different enough tone and style than G2K that the first three Millennium movies feel like they're all in the spirit of the project; it's really with Against Mechagodzilla and Tokyo SOS that the whole concept just feels utterly betrayed.

I'll take it a step further and say even though I quite like G2K and enjoy the Kiryu saga (in spite of its potential to be far, far better), even they don't really accomplish what Toho was theoretically supposed to do. The idea IMO -and maybe this is where my concept differs from what Toho actually wanted- should have been to do films with universes and stories that they really could not tell otherwise. Like I said, I think it'd interesting to do a period Godzilla film set hundreds of years ago like Daimajin. Set it up as some sort of mythical creature wished upon by the Japanese to battle some invading, equally mythical monster. But by calling on the beast, they invoke it forever and Godzilla will walk Japan for the rest of Earth's time. They could even use the Ghost Godzilla concept that remains largely unused. Why, even use Bagan as a vehicle for the film to have a China-Japan metaphor in some way. There's a million possibilities. Or use the unused idea of "Godzilla vs Gunhed" with the machines and the futuristic world and whatnot. Both the setting and the opponent is quite unconventional for the franchise, and by being able to do a stand alone film they don't have to worry about continuity or being forced to use the same setting and universe for a series of films.

[kamilleblu]

^ That was my point eabaker. Besides GMK and GFW, the Millennium Era films are so similar that there was almost no point of going the route they did. Feels like a waste. Ignore the back story of Megaguirus and tweak the timeline of the Kiryu films to include G2K and Megaguirus, and you'll have a smoothly flowing line of films. Even the suits are similar.

[eabaker]

^ That was my point eabaker. Besides GMK and GFW, the Millennium Era films are so similar that there was almost no point of going the route they did. Feels like a waste. Ignore the back story of Megaguirus and tweak the timeline of the Kiryu films to include G2K and Megaguirus, and you'll have a smoothly flowing line of films. Even the suits are similar.

I agree that the results were in large part a waste of the concept of reinventing from movie to movie, but I don't think there would be any particular value in having them be connected, either. It just wouldn't affect my response to those movies one way or the other.

[Mechagigan]

As eabaker said, it would have been neat for the Millenium stuff to have a connection, but it wouldn't make a huge difference, assuming the additions would be limited to an off comment about a past event. If you threw in past characters, it would certainly make a change, but that would probably mean overhauling the majority of the movies.

[g2vd]

You guys... the Millenium Series continues after the Heisei Series, Godzila Junior is the Godzilla in every movie just mutating every movie is canon.