Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Legion1979 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:00 am

Presto wrote:Final Wars had its moments. Anyone who says they like Godzilla films but hate this one should reevaluate why they watch Godzilla at all.


Yeah okay, whatever you say. :roll:

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby tymon » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:21 am

Presto wrote:Final Wars had its moments. Anyone who says they like Godzilla films but hate this one should reevaluate why they watch Godzilla at all.

- "Had its moments", implying it's mostly bad.
- Isn't able to understand why people would hate a mostly bad film.
lolwut

There are several reasons why many find Final Wars the most irritating of the franchise, but those reasons have been covered so many times in such excruciating detail that I'd rather not retread them. Just check out some of the old Final Wars threads, Presto. If you want equally fast results, just check out GotengoXGodzilla's post history. ;)
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby MDK » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:48 am

I never got the whole "Yeah Final Wars sucks, but most Godzilla films aren't Oscar worthy11!!111"
Defending Final Wars by having to criticise other movies that are way better is pretty silly.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Presto » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:43 pm

Kaiser wrote:I really wouldn't go there if I were you man.


Come at me bro.

tymon wrote:
Presto wrote:- "Had its moments", implying it's mostly bad.
- Isn't able to understand why people would hate a mostly bad film.
lolwut


-Implying that a weak G film cannot have good moments.
lolwut

There's no need to make a big deal about it. Given the context of the Godzilla franchise, it's a weak, but fun film. It's a Saturday morning romp. Enjoy the good parts. Besides, it will never fall below Godzilla's Revenge.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Kaiser » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:02 pm

Using the "No True Scotsman" fallacy is not a good way to start of an argument. The only thing saying "true fans enjoy Final Wars" is going to do is annoy people. I honestly think part of the reason some fans dislike Final Wars so strongly is not just because of the tone and atmosphere of the film but enduring all the immature attempts at defending it. If you like Final Wars, that's good for you, but mandating that everyone like it to prove their fan cred is the kind of behavior that really irritates the rest of the board.

Also:

Presto wrote:
Kaiser wrote:I really wouldn't go there if I were you man.


Come at me bro.


Seriously? Look, if you're not going to take this seriously, I've got better things to talk about.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby MDK » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:31 pm

Presto wrote:Besides, it will never fall below Godzilla's Revenge.


Implying that Godzilla's Revenge is a really bad film and that Godzilla Final Wars is better than it.

lolwut
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Legion1979 wrote:The Godzilla fandom tends to attract three types of people; ignorant kids, social deviants and drunks in their late '20s and older. Lol

SaltPersonified wrote:Says the one who threw a temper tantrum over Vega

If you're forced ignored with me and you see this because you logged out to read my posts you need a life lol

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby YonggaryRGG » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:02 am

Soulman wrote:I mean seriously? Not to come across harsh but do you all realize you are arguing over a teenager's opinion? Personally I can take or leave the Final Wars movie. Was it bad: Yes, but honestly most Kaiju films aren't Oscar-winning films themselves. But despite how campy or unrealistic the plot of giant monsters fighting other monsters we all still are fans of the franchise. At the end of the day it comes to some people like Vanilla icecream, some like Chocolate, etc. etc. Opinions ARE subjective! I do not honestly see how you can justify one opinion holding more weight because you elaborated your thoughts, over a child's who I assume must still be in school and has yet acquired the basics of expressing his or her own thoughts in written form.


Opinions are subjective, yes, but that doesn't mean all opinions are equal. Your statement implies that no one opinion is better than another regardless of how it's justified (or not), which is a balance fallacy (you criticize the people here for using "college level grading rubric" to justify their viewpoints, but those terms and concepts exist for a reason).

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby GhidoGoji » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:08 pm

Final Wars was okay. The Kaiju battles were neat, though seeing Godzilla squash all of the Kaiju he had battles with that had lasted entire movies felt like it had made the rest of the series a bit weak, but oh well. This one had a similar goal to Destroy All Monsters where they wanted to fit everybody in for one last big movie (Though it turned out DAM wasn't much of a finale after all) but DAM did it better. I can see why people like it and why others don't and I'm close to the middle. Some parts were good, but others weren't.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Goji » Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:25 am

Presto wrote:Final Wars had its moments. Anyone who says they like Godzilla films but hate this one should reevaluate why they watch Godzilla at all.


..Lol. I realize I'm one to talk, but this is as inflammatory as it gets. We could start a whole 'nother thread about this.

'How can you like Godzilla movies and not like GFW' is such a lame angle.


Kaiser wrote:Using the "No True Scotsman" fallacy is not a good way to start of an argument. The only thing saying "true fans enjoy Final Wars" is going to do is annoy people. I honestly think part of the reason some fans dislike Final Wars so strongly is not just because of the tone and atmosphere of the film but enduring all the immature attempts at defending it. If you like Final Wars, that's good for you, but mandating that everyone like it to prove their fan cred is the kind of behavior that really irritates the rest of the board.


Nailed it.
UltramanGoji wrote: Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Gojira1963 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:56 am

I really enjoy Final Wars. I like the special effects and I like how powerful Godzilla and his atomic breath is. I enjoy alien invasion movies as a science-fiction fan and I like it when this is done in a Godzilla film. The mutant angle adds to the conflict and how one mutant has to realize his potential in defeating the aliens.

I can understand why fans may not like this movie. It is un-like any other Godzilla film that it fits in a category all its own. The frenetic style of filming, the musical score and the mutants are all new to this franchise. Plus the fact that the movie goes for an hour without Godzilla is an understandable problem for some fans.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Legion1979 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:19 pm

Goji wrote:
Presto wrote:Final Wars had its moments. Anyone who says they like Godzilla films but hate this one should reevaluate why they watch Godzilla at all.


..Lol. I realize I'm one to talk, but this is as inflammatory as it gets. We could start a whole 'nother thread about this.

'How can you like Godzilla movies and not like GFW' is such a lame angle.


Kaiser wrote:Using the "No True Scotsman" fallacy is not a good way to start of an argument. The only thing saying "true fans enjoy Final Wars" is going to do is annoy people. I honestly think part of the reason some fans dislike Final Wars so strongly is not just because of the tone and atmosphere of the film but enduring all the immature attempts at defending it. If you like Final Wars, that's good for you, but mandating that everyone like it to prove their fan cred is the kind of behavior that really irritates the rest of the board.


Nailed it.


I've become a bit more cynical as I've gotten older. But there was a time where I loved EVERY new Godzilla film that came out. I didn't exactly love G2K, but I didn't dislike it either. The other Millennium films I liked just fine, some
I even loved. I HATED GFW from the first time I saw it. And I still do.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby he-ba » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:38 am

I think I'm going to get some hate for this, but I just read this whole thing and laughed.

Falcon, I would like to say, "Welcome, you're off to a bad start."

I totally understand when people say they like or dislike a movie. It's an opinion, and it should be respected. But, and I've made this mistake many a time when I first started here, ya gatta realize that the fandom is different than what you previously thought. There are guys and gals on here that will defend to the death that they believe "Gojira" was their least favorite movie and that they can't understand why people love it so much. Ya just shrug and continue.

Now GFW..... I absolutely loved how much they brought back from the Showa..... but was it executed correctly? *breathes in through teeth* ...... No. It was quite confusing. They had Gorath come towards Earth again, they had the Shobijin, they had the Xilians, they had almost every monster featured, in toy form, easter eggs, or they actually fought Godzilla themselves, etc. etc.
And when the continuity comes together, it gets a little confusing. They do mention that the Xilians did escape into the future in IoAM, and that they have come back. They do have the Shobijin be Mothra's divine things, and they have some cave in Infant Island and everything, and Mothra has another ancient rivalry.
But Gorath confuses me. Sure it was nice to see it, but the writers stayed so close to the continuity of the Showa, and then Gorath's history is completely changed. It bothers me.
But like I say, to watch a movie and enjoy it, you have to go in with the mindset of the target audience. So go in there with the thought that this is going to a Japanese-anime-juvenile-terribly plotly executed- super compilation of the past 50 years movie.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Space Hunter M » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:42 am

Ozaki! Get a grip! We're going in!
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Goji » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:31 am

Seeing as the OP has clearly jumped ship, maybe this thread doesn't serve much of a purpose anymore. Isn't there another one just like it, anyway?
UltramanGoji wrote: Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby three » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:18 pm

the hate comes from the fact that the movie sucks.

the human action is fun, the captain is nice, but overall, it's not even good as far as Godzilla movies go, delivering on zero of the traditional fronts and fallbacks the movies enjoy the luxury of having.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby skuzzy-punk-kid » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:47 pm

Personally, I don't hate the movie. It wasn't an outstandingly good movie, but it wasn't total garbage to me. With the exception of Captain Gordon, the rest of the cast came across as rather plastic.
The borderline redeeming qualities to me were the Kaiju scenes, Zilla getting trashed in record time, the return of Kumi Mizuno, and Godzilla's red spiral beam returning for the curtain call of the Millennium series. Everything else? Not so much.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby three » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:50 pm

skuzzy-punk-kid wrote:Personally, I don't hate the movie. It wasn't an outstandingly good movie, but it wasn't total garbage to me. With the exception of Captain Gordon, the rest of the cast came across as rather plastic.
The borderline redeeming qualities to me were the Kaiju scenes, Zilla getting trashed in record time, the return of Kumi Mizuno, and Godzilla's red spiral beam returning for the curtain call of the Millennium series. Everything else? Not so much.


the kaiju scenes to me were what doomed the feeling of a great Godzilla movie. at least in some pretty terrible movies, like Space Godzilla, you can fall back on the great villain and how the final fight is entertaining. in this? Tokyo: SOS, does the full length battle film better, because the monsters aren't dying every couple of seconds.

i know i'm searing the movie here, and id on't mean to constantly seem to undermine other opinions because, well, they're just what people happen to like. in this instance though, nothing that is named really strikes me as redeeming. that's something this film really hurts for that other bad G movies have: a redeeming quality. this one has bright spots, but nothing to say, "mm. that was half decent".
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!


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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Cookson » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:43 am

Its a fun G film...but crappy 50th anniversary film. Some positives though are Godzillas design, the Godzilla vs MonsterX/Kaiser Ghidorah battle(probably my favorite Millenium battle). A HUGE positive is, if you put this movie in front of a youngster, they will love it. My 4 year old loves this film. There's for sure positives out of GFW... That's all you can really say though. They just chose the wrong director. He was too much about ninja fighting and all that rather than kaiju.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Tyrant_Lizard_King » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:38 am

I personally have always wanted to see karate in a Godzilla movie. Too bad most the fights in GFW were terribly choreographed or filled with over the top slow motion sequences. Which is a shame cause Kitamura usually has great fight choreography in his films. Makes me wonder if Toho is partially to blame for that. Like how Toho films usually have great samurai/ninja sword fight sequences but the ones in Yamato Takeru suck ass.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby daveblackeye15 » Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:02 am

What I dislike about it is that it starts off really well. We see a prologue with Godzilla, Gotengo takes out Manda, characters are established, Gordon is awesome a big monster attack happens then aliens.

Then something about it kind of goes downhill when Godzilla shows up. It's kind of cool that Godzilla is a beast but kind of lame how they just kind of skirt past most of the fights too. I mean if each fight had a minimum of Rodan/Anguirus/King Ceasar then it might have been acceptable. To add insult to injury the finale has way too much focus on Ozaki. Gordon I loved but Ozaki I got annoyed with him hogging the spotlight. So that's what bothers me about the movie, the director didn't really feel like he wanted to do a Godzilla movie.

I mean how much action did we see with Godzilla and Monster X? There was ten seconds here, five seconds here...oh suddenly Godzilla's melee is enough to subdue Monster X. Wish we could have seen than instead of half an hour of stupid Versus fighting! It was neat having Keiser Ghidorah whup Godzilla around but that fight felt like 'well I got my big human action piece done...oh yeah this is a Godzilla movie.'

It started off so well, the mutants fighting Ebirah was great. Then it just became way too much about Ozaki and not enough about Godzilla and giant monsters. If Gordon was the main human action and cut out all the Ozaki stuff, add a little more of Godzilla and Mothra vs X and Gigan it would have been amazing at least.

And it just felt like a waste. The director wanted to go for more of the 70s Godzilla feel where Godzilla could move quickly and perform outlandish moves. A neat idea, I'm okay with it since I got a softspot for that period of Godzilla. But he just wasted it since we barely saw Godzill and X go into melee. The biggest potential was X swinging around and punching Godzilla and hitting him with his tails. Or the two passing each other and hitting at the same time.

Just felt like a huge wasted effort that could have been amazing if the guy in charge didn't want to do Versus 1.5.


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