Final Wars: Why The Hate?

[soulgodzilla]

I think by its nature GFW invites extreme opinions. Those who enjoy it are prone to love it hyperbolically, while those who don't enjoy it tend to be equally extreme in their contempt. That's what happens when a filmmaker goes to such extremes.

True but I really like FW, enough for it to be my favourite, and even I think the guy is hyping it up a bit too much.

Brings me back memories when I used to be a Sonic fan. But not anymore since we all know it's going downhill due to not just the fandom, but a certain Wii U game.

But yeah, if you like Godzilla FW, I'm completely cool with ya if we can all agree our opinions.

[SomeknowmeasXeno]

I think by its nature GFW invites extreme opinions. Those who enjoy it are prone to love it hyperbolically, while those who don't enjoy it tend to be equally extreme in their contempt. That's what happens when a filmmaker goes to such extremes.

True but I really like FW, enough for it to be my favourite, and even I think the guy is hyping it up a bit too much.

Brings me back memories when I used to be a Sonic fan. But not anymore since we all know it's going downhill due to not just the fandom, but a certain Wii U game.

But yeah, if you like Godzilla FW, I'm completely cool with ya if we can all agree our opinions.

Oh, I'm so fucking tired of this stigma, the fanbase is no where near as bad as it's made out to be, hell the Godzilla fanbase is worse. And the Boom TV show is good and successful, Mania is a guaranteed success and will be a great game, they'd have to actually try to fuck Mania up, so even if Sonic 2017 fucks up something Mania will make it a mute point anyway: and 2017 seems to be returning to a gameplay style that's fun and works, the generations style. Plus it seems to be moving away from the ridiculously kiddy nature of Colors and taking on the much better, mature but still fun tone of the Adventure series. Things are getting better no doubt.

On topic, FW is a very devisive film, as Eabaker said, hate for it was guaranteed as was love. It's rare to find an inbetween.

[soulgodzilla]

True but I really like FW, enough for it to be my favourite, and even I think the guy is hyping it up a bit too much.

Brings me back memories when I used to be a Sonic fan. But not anymore since we all know it's going downhill due to not just the fandom, but a certain Wii U game.

But yeah, if you like Godzilla FW, I'm completely cool with ya if we can all agree our opinions.

Oh, I'm so skreeonking tired of this stigma, the fanbase is no where near as bad as it's made out to be, hell the Godzilla fanbase is worse. And the Boom TV show is good and successful, Mania is a guaranteed success and will be a great game, they'd have to actually try to skreeonk Mania up, so even if Sonic 2017 skreeonks up something Mania will make it a mute point anyway: and 2017 seems to be returning to a gameplay style that's fun and works, the generations style. Plus it seems to be moving away from the ridiculously kiddy nature of Colors and taking on the much better, mature but still fun tone of the Adventure series. Things are getting better no doubt.

On topic, FW is a very devisive film, as Eabaker said, hate for it was guaranteed as was love. It's rare to find an inbetween.

Only seen a few episodes of the TV show and I its at least better then the Wii U game. And yes, I think Sonic Mania will be as good as the blue blur's SEGA Genisis trilogy games and do hope that 2017 will become something good.

But we're not here to bash on hedgehog and that certain mobian/Pikachu hybrid abomination. We're in this forms to explain why FW is hated.

[GodzillaFan1990's]

-Rushed plot
-Focused more on Matrix like plot that was out of place
-Most fights lasting only a few minutes with Godzilla trashing his foes like rag dolls (Especially ones who were argably one of his most powerful he ever faced, Hedorah for example)
-Everything else

That is why.

[tbeasley]

As relatively bland the Kiryu films are in hindsight perhaps Toho should have handed over the big 50th anniversary project over to a guy like Tezuka. At least the resources Toho allowed for the project would have gone in the right direction (the effects). Tokyo SOS was quite an improvement over Against Mechagodzilla in that department, and maybe Final Wars (or whatever it would have been in this scenario) would look even better.

[Goji]

What "Matrix-like plot"? This movie is absolutely nothing like The Matrix.

[TheSecondComing]

Oh Jesus. Tezuka couldn't even make a movie where a dinosaur fights a robot fun. And he had TWO CHANCES!

Letting him plan the 50th birthday bash would've been benign, understated, molasses-slow, and even more easily forgotten.

[SomeknowmeasXeno]

What "Matrix-like plot"? This movie is absolutely nothing like The Matrix.

We can agree on that, FW doesn't try to be deep and fail at it and thus end up being pretentious and a clusterfuck: unlike The Matrix.

[LamangoKaijura]

What "Matrix-like plot"? This movie is absolutely nothing like The Matrix.

We can agree on that, FW doesn't try to be deep and fail at it and thus end up being pretentious and a clusterskreeonk: unlike The Matrix.

Leather outfits and leather coats, matrix style slow motions.

[eabaker]

What "Matrix-like plot"? This movie is absolutely nothing like The Matrix.

We can agree on that, FW doesn't try to be deep and fail at it and thus end up being pretentious and a clusterskreeonk: unlike The Matrix.

Leather outfits and leather coats, matrix style slow motions.

So, things that are not plot.

[Space Hunter M]

I kinda wish Kitamura would've been able to go all out with his style instead of the kinda held back, conservative feel of the finished movie.

[g2vd]

While the film had quite a bit of "homages" to the Matrix. I actually find the Alien outfits bare a far greater resemblance to THE Sting's outfit in Dune (1984).

Though of course it was definitely intended to evoke the Matrix.







I can't be the only one right?

[tbeasley]

Leather outfits and leather coats, matrix style slow motions.

Ozaki even stops a bunch of bullets (well, laser blasts) midair like Neo does. There are definite callouts/rip-offs of many Hollywood franchises even if they aren't plot specific, from The Matrix (fight scenes), X-Men (super powered mutant characters), Star Wars (the big Xilien Death Star/capitol ship), Star Trek (the captain sitting in a big chair inside of the Gotengo), etc...

[Cookson]

Maybe there are obvious rip offs of Hollywood films; and why they did this, I don't know. However, I believe GFW holds up pretty well now considering it doesn't really need to be known as the 50th anniversary film any longer. At the time it had high expectations, but now 12+ years have past with a successful Hollywood franchise and Shin Godzilla, which is a crazy take on the character, and you can say the same thing about GFW. You also have an anime film next year which will most likely be a crazy story.

To me, GFW fits in well with the unlimitness that the franchise is currently in.

[eabaker]

Maybe there are obvious rip offs of Hollywood films; and why they did this, I don't know.

To my mind, "rip-off" implies that the audience is not supposed to recognize it as an allusion to another work. But there is, to my mind, a pretty clear strand of (somewhat self-indulgent) post-modernism to GFW. To whatever degree the movie works (not a high degree for me, but a pretty high degree for some people), it is in large part because they recognize the references to not just other Godzilla movies, but to X-Men, The Matrix, etc, and enjoy seeing them stripped of their context and re-purposed.

Shit, I've done it again. I've given myself another reason not to hate this fucking movie!

[Stevo_1985]

Maybe there are obvious rip offs of Hollywood films; and why they did this, I don't know.

To my mind, "rip-off" implies that the audience is not supposed to recognize it as an allusion to another work. But there is, to my mind, a pretty clear strand of (somewhat self-indulgent) post-modernism to GFW. To whatever degree the movie works (not a high degree for me, but a pretty high degree for some people), it is in large part because they recognize the references to not just other Godzilla movies, but to X-Men, The Matrix, etc, and enjoy seeing them stripped of their context and re-purposed.

Shit, I've done it again. I've given myself another reason not to hate this skreeonking movie!

Huh.. That's interesting. Those are pretty much the reasons I hate this movie and would sooner wipe my ass with it then the plushest tp you can find.

[eabaker]

Maybe there are obvious rip offs of Hollywood films; and why they did this, I don't know.

To my mind, "rip-off" implies that the audience is not supposed to recognize it as an allusion to another work. But there is, to my mind, a pretty clear strand of (somewhat self-indulgent) post-modernism to GFW. To whatever degree the movie works (not a high degree for me, but a pretty high degree for some people), it is in large part because they recognize the references to not just other Godzilla movies, but to X-Men, The Matrix, etc, and enjoy seeing them stripped of their context and re-purposed.

Shit, I've done it again. I've given myself another reason not to hate this skreeonking movie!

Huh.. That's interesting. Those are pretty much the reasons I hate this movie and would sooner wipe my ass with it then the plushest tp you can find.

So, you'd prefer that it had ripped off other movies with the specific intent of fooling the audience into thinking that they were original ideas?

[Stevo_1985]

To my mind, "rip-off" implies that the audience is not supposed to recognize it as an allusion to another work. But there is, to my mind, a pretty clear strand of (somewhat self-indulgent) post-modernism to GFW. To whatever degree the movie works (not a high degree for me, but a pretty high degree for some people), it is in large part because they recognize the references to not just other Godzilla movies, but to X-Men, The Matrix, etc, and enjoy seeing them stripped of their context and re-purposed.

Shit, I've done it again. I've given myself another reason not to hate this skreeonking movie!

Huh.. That's interesting. Those are pretty much the reasons I hate this movie and would sooner wipe my ass with it then the plushest tp you can find.

So, you'd prefer that it had ripped off other movies with the specific intent of fooling the audience into thinking that they were original ideas?

Before final wars show me a Godzilla film with super mutants, stopping bullets with mystical bread powers, ridiculous hand to hand combat scenes, name me one. Imo it was uneccesary. Take Godzilla out of the solution and this is cannon fodder for a syfy original. LG proved you don't need it. It would also appear Shin proves you don't need it as well. This film strayed so far off the path it got lost. It comes across to me as if the director was more interested in directing a generic action sci fi sensory overload in your face film then a Godzilla film. Imo. Complete disgrace to the franchise.

[eabaker]

Huh.. That's interesting. Those are pretty much the reasons I hate this movie and would sooner wipe my ass with it then the plushest tp you can find.

So, you'd prefer that it had ripped off other movies with the specific intent of fooling the audience into thinking that they were original ideas?

Before final wars show me a Godzilla film with super mutants, stopping bullets with mystical bread powers, ridiculous hand to hand combat scenes, name me one. Imo it was uneccesary. Take Godzilla out of the solution and this is cannon fodder for a syfy original. LG proved you don't need it. It would also appear Shin proves you don't need it as well. This film strayed so far off the path it got lost. It comes across to me as if the director was more interested in directing a generic action sci fi sensory overload in your face film then a Godzilla film. Imo. Complete disgrace to the franchise.

I think I was confused about the meaning of your first post, or that you were confused about the meaning of mine, or maybe both.

My point was that those terrible elements (we're in total agreement there) were serving a kind of deconstructionist - or maybe even Dadaist - function, and thus couldn't be classified as "rip-offs."

So, I found myself defending an aspect of the movie on, basically, purely academic grounds, and I was annoyed at the fact that I was suggesting to myself an angle from which the movie's flaws could be read as a strength.

You, then, appeared to say that the deconstructionist intent of those references was your biggest problem with the movie. Not the elements themselves, but the postmodernist context.

Thus, it seemed like you were saying a genuine rip-off is better than self-conscious genre play.

And now it seems like you think I was trying to defend the movie's quality, when I was only talking about intent, not outcome.

So, um, I think we're actually pretty much in agreement.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

From experience non fans seem to be far more taken with this film than die hard fans. Its kinda funny actually. Personally I love Final Wars for how off the wall crazy it is. Sure there's a lot I'd do differently, like strip the whole Minilla subplot and beef up the human and kaiju fight scenes to Kitamura's usual frantic levels. Then again that seems the norm for Toho's post Showa kaiju productions. The sword fights in Yamato Takeru for example were similarly stale and lacked impact.