Where did Final Wars go wrong?

[Karmataurus]

I remember frantically trying to figure out what was 'wrong' with this movie, I loved it and everyone I know who usually hates G movies likes it. It has tons of action, tons of fun, and the most indepth references you can think of! I could make an hour long video detailing the easter eggs and 'love-letters' to the franchise.

I think one review I saw said it best, it's not trying to be a Godzilla movie, but THE Godzilla movie. And I don't mean that as a 'The Best of the Best', but rather, the qunitesential 'I've never seen one of these, this is the to watch'.

Think about it, it has all the Godzilla tropes!

- Godzilla is an 'anti-hero', fighting other monsters and aliens but briefly attacking civilization and humanity
- Godzilla fights aliens
- Aliens mind control earth monsters
- Godzilla is pretty much invicible and wrecks everyone
- Mothra + Shobjiin
- Godzilla has a son
- Humans have mechs to fight monsters
- Godzilla goes into the ocean at the end
- Climactic fight is in Tokyo

I've never understood the hate. Do the monsters get enough screen time... Yeah, pretty much IMO. What did you want, we got more than enough monsters destroying buildings and we see their powers in action. The monsters die way to easily, but look at what he's up against. Ebirah? Kamacuras? King Ceasar? Hell, Gigan wasn't even that big of a deal back in the day. With the exceptions of Hedorah, Anguirus, and Rodan, pretty much everyone he fights isn't a major threat. Humans have ALWAYS had more screen time than monsters, the Big G gets at least a third of the movie to himself, more than he usually does. The suits look pretty good for the most part, with some exceptions.

Maybe it's just me. Perhaps Goji can knock some sense into me.

[LSD Jellyfish]

And why shouldn't Hedorah have been there, exactly? You didn't actually provide any reasoning.

Purely subjective but his on screentime was too short and was a waste. It's even worse when Hedorah clearly had a cut scene that's featured in the credits. Having him in for two seconds worsens the film because it gives the impression that the monsters didn't appear enough even though I would say it had the most destruction scenes, monster variety and presence. If Hedorah was cut I feel like many people would complain less about "monster cameos". All of the other monsters had their time to shine. Sure Ebirah gets blasted away fast by Godzilla but he had a special importance when he fights the mutants.



The comparisons to the 98 film are absolutely ridiculous and unwarranted. Too many human characters? How about some of the most important ones. Rather than playing the cliche scientists or more pilots they introduced superhumans action heros to the Godzilla world which is super cool. As James Rolfe said in his review it's cool that we get scenes of people fighting instead of people talking. It adds lots of entertainment. And yes sure there's definitely comedic elements but it's nowhere silly as the 98 film where there's too much comedy and nothing is threatening.

In regards to the big godzilla trope thing I can't argue that. The movie didn't being anything new and recycled a lot. However it did so IMO very well with a bigger budget and it was nice to have monsters like Kumonga or Angurius appear again. For what was to be the final film in the series I'm perfectly fine with it supposed to be some big epic finale that brings in a lot of elements from past films. The movie also had a huge variety of enviornments and locations which is petty rare in the normally japan centric series.

Bar the Heisei and GMK Godzilla this one was my favorite. Final Goji was a complete badass, destroying every monster in his way and being quick. He was a complete powerhouse and that's fine.

[Goji]

Ugh. Anybody remember the days when people didn't reference James Rolfe when talking about Godzilla movies on the internet?

[tymon]

The main problem with Final Wars in general is that there isn't an ounce of intelligence or charm to it. It's just a bunch of witless, cliched, ADHD-driven nonsense vomited onto the screen. It's the only Godzilla movie where I feel like I'm being talked down or condescended to, which is saying a lot, because this franchise has more than its fair share of dumb movies...

[LSD Jellyfish]

Ugh. Anybody remember the days when people didn't reference James Rolfe when talking about Godzilla movies on the internet?

I do but it doesn't make his sentiment invalid. It summarizes exactly how I felt about the movie.

[Goji]

Of course it doesn't, but you don't understand the problem.

For the past 6+ years, I've seen people say "well at least people are fighting instead of talking" as a weirdly juvenile defense for this waste of celluloid, and as much as I like the guy, this is partially Rolfe's fault. Prior to 2007, that wasn't a popular defense, but because his opinion is put on a pedestal, his view on "boring human scenes" has been cemented into the minds of GFW apologists everywhere.

Character development? Story? Speculation on where these monsters came from? Nah, fuck all that. I just wanna see X-Men rejects punch each other in the face while we catch fleeting glimpses of our star throwing giant spiders across continents. I mean, that's what makes the ultimate Godzilla movie, right?

[LSD Jellyfish]

Of course it doesn't, but you don't understand the problem.

For the past 6+ years, I've seen people say "well at least people are fighting instead of talking" as a weirdly juvenile defense for this waste of celluloid, and as much as I like the guy, this is partially Rolfe's fault. Prior to 2007, that wasn't a popular defense, but because his opinion is put on a pedestal, his view on "boring human scenes" has been cemented into the minds of GFW apologists everywhere.

Character development? Story? Speculation on where these monsters came from? Nah, skreeonk all that. I just wanna see X-Men rejects punch each other in the face while we catch fleeting glimpses of our star throwing giant spiders across continents. I mean, that's what makes the ultimate Godzilla movie, right?

In regards to the monsters appearing it's implied that monsters live all across the globe including monsters that were defeated prior like Gezora, Megagurius, and Titanosaurus. The aliens got control of them and I realize this is a bit far fetched and rushed. However this is more a problem of the 3rd series not having any large continuous continuity. It was also refreshing in context to have an all out monster movie as opposed to the smaller scale Kiryu saga before it. I'm not saying those movies are bad, as far as character development but it feels like they went with the easy route of choosing monsters that would obvious draw in a crowd, Mechagodzilla and Mothra. Of course the film ends with Keizer Ghidorah and has mothra in it but the former wasn't part of the ads and the latter was not a focus. We got to see monsters like Angurius, Ebirah, Kamacruras and Kumonga, monsters that might not have otherwise gotten another appearance, it's a nice throwback. I will also say the film might have been better if Monster X didn't turn into Keizer Ghidorah, that is a bit weird and ruins Monster X as it's own seperate and original monster.

Okay you're right about that and I see what you're saying. Up until a few days ago I never was on any sort of godzilla forum so I can see how that knee jerk defense can get annoying. My favorite movies are from the Heisei era and that definitely had a lot of interesting human characters and plot elements and drama without resorting to mutants (Sardian Agents from GVB or the father their from GVM1992).
Godzilla Final Wars is actually the exact opposite of my favorite film, Godzilla vs Biollante.

I guess I might like the movie in the collective whole of the series. The franchise has gone on so long there's a lot for everyone. If you want goofy and campy check the Showa. If you want darker films there's 1954, GVM, 1985 and GMK. Final Wars is an all out crazy dumbest, and that's why I like it. I like the variety of the films in the series and depending on what mood I'm in I can watch something stupid or something serious. I just don't think GFW was harmful or was some blemish on the franchise. I can't change anyone's opinion on it I just don't see it as bad.

Also Gigan's redesign was amazing.

[MM The Destroyer]

I'm not even going to say focusing on human action, because honestly, there isn't all THAT much. I won't even say holding off on Godzilla until the last 40-45 minutes, because when he appears, it's mainly about him. Though, I would say cut the whole mutant angle as well, because it's pretty dumb and pointless.

No. I'm going to out on a limb and say cramming in all the kaiju.

If one would eliminate all the pointless kaiju, namely Hedorah, Ebirah, Kumonga, Kamacuras, Minilla, Zilla and left the roster only at Manda's cameo with intro of Gotengo, Rodan, King Caesar, Anguirus, Mothra, Gigan, and Monster X, the battles would of been much more tolerable.

You could of had Godzilla vs. Gigan where it was and the fight actually last a solid 10 minutes or so. Move to Godzilla reaching Japan's coastline and confronted by the mind controlled Anguirus, Rodan, and King Caesar. Battle happens as it did. Not that important a fight and it shows Godzilla spare them.

Finale. Happens as it does in film... until Keizer Ghidorah. Godzilla is getting his ass kicked and... then you hear their roars. Anguirus, Rodan, and King Caesar, freed of Xillian control, come in and help Godzilla. No Ozakizilla BS needed. And instead of this whole sappy ending with Minilla, Godzilla just turns away and heads back to sea.

And then the money that went into the suits could have been put into the others, making them look A LOT better, and into the SFX in general.


But that's just what I'd do.

Or else, honestly, I'd have just scrapped the whole god damn movie and made Godzilla X Mothra X MechaGodzilla X King Ghidorah: Japan Burns for the 50th and the final intro in a Kiryu-based saga. And throw in Anguirus and Rodan as kaiju to fight (and be defeated) at some point before the fatal four way of Toho's Big Four.

[Unit~NoA]

Finale. Happens as it does in film... until Keizer Ghidorah. Godzilla is getting his ass kicked and... then you hear their roars. Anguirus, Rodan, and King Caesar, freed of Xillian control, come in and help Godzilla. No Ozakizilla BS needed. And instead of this whole sappy ending with Minilla, Godzilla just turns away and heads back to sea.

I would've loved that, Godzilla's allies assets him for Keizer fight. That could've made Keizer even more of a threat or the allies look less like fodder. Though it wasn't necessary, I didn't mind the Kaiserzilla thing at all, just shouldn't had been one-sided.

And then the money that went into the suits could have been put into the others, making them look A LOT better, and into the SFX in general.

Cutting some of the mutant fights like the motorcycle scene for a example to devote more time duration and money for monster fights. Suits are little mediocre but they were functioned to really move in combat, so primary I would've just done exactly that.

[szmigiel]

Final Wars is still one of my favorite Godzilla movies, easily in the top 10, I enjoy the movie for what it is. Sure like most Godzilla films given more time, instead of having it go from concept to screen in less then a year, it could have been better. But I take each film as it is. I like that it was a tribute to not only the Showa era of films but to many sci-fi movies. Sure the battles are short, but I enjoyed them so I don't mind that they were short. I enjoyed the martial arts and wirework of the human scale fights and I don't think that it takes away from the daikaiju battles. Lastly I think that the soundtrack fit the style of film being made, sure I think the Akira Ifukube soundtracks are the best, but the movie needed more then just reusing his scores.

[Pkmatrix]

Honestly, I don't think it would take THAT much to fix this one. Even with the script it has (which I think was problematic to begin with and NOT what I would've gone with), the thing could still be saved had the cinematography and editing not been a complete mess. Better cinematography, editing choices, and soundtrack would've done a LOT to produce a better film. I also would've thrown out the rather ridiculous costume/set design philosophy they went with ("TThe Matrix...only Japanese!"). The worst things about it are, honestly, how hard it tries to be "stylish" and "cool".

[imperious reptilius]

Admittedly it's been a while since I've seen it.

But I remember my biggest issues were the Xilians; nothing about them or their plot was all that memorable barring a few moments here and there. Not to mention there was a time when it was the "last" Godzilla film, and as a finale to the Godzilla legacy, it just felt kinda underwhelming.

[LamangoKaijura]

Half of Godzilla's kills made no sense.
Gigan: Was killed by Godzilla, decapication
Zilla: Was blown up by Godzilla in the Sydney Opera House.
Kamakuras: Was killed on a telephone/radio tower. Godzilla got lucky and threw him on an already damaged tower.
Kumonga: Somehow jet propelled himself backwards, complete with tiny zoom sound effect, after Godzilla threw him.
Rodan/Anguirus/King Caesar: Left em. Let the people deal with em when they woke up. Mountain took out the trio with assist from Godzilla.
Ebirah/Hedorah: Wtf is even happening. Godzilla blasted two static images of them out of the ocean, then blew them across a city that was supposed to be destroyed due to the invasion. Then they're killed off screen.

[Young Guy]

I think Toho tried too hard with the whole "go out with a bang" thing. Crazy martial art fight scenes with the humans, mutants and xilians. The cringe-worthy New York scene. Sum 41 music which isn't bad, just out of place. The plot was all over the place. Hedorah makes a brief cameo and is just thrown in without any introduction or explanation . And the fact that Godzilla wouldn't be able to defeat Kaiser Ghidorah without the mutant's energy stuff- no idea what that was about.

I still liked the movie but it felt "of".

[Joleim]

What when wrong is that they tried to include every Godzilla trope/cliche they could muster and shove it all into a clusterfuck of a movie. The worst part of it though, was that Godzilla was not the focus or the core of this movie. Sure, he was a big help, but by the end of the movie it's easy to forget about Godzilla. The whole mutant/Xilien thing overtook absolutely everything and reduced every bit of kaiju action to mere ridiculous seconds. To make matters worse, Godzilla needed mutant magic help. It would've been far better if the final battle had actually been an epic kaiju war, but nope, let's just have the mutant guy go Super Saiyan! Oh, and despite having the higher budget than other Toho movies, why does Godzilla look worse than the previous movies? Why does everything look worse? Honestly, it was a big step back in more ways than one.

So yeah, that's what went wrong, but I wouldn't say it's awful. It really depends how you see it. Final Wars is fun if you shut off your brain or can appreciate and laugh at the cheese, but if you're trying to watch it while trying to take it somewhat seriously then it really goes down the gutter.

[Godzillian]

A big problem is this movie tries to replace story and character development with action. The amount of monsters wouldn't be a problem if they weren't simply used as cannon fodder for a near invincible Godzilla. Not to mention the lack of originality and a lot of the human action scenes are flat and uninspired.

[Sparkzilla14]

I honestly cannot finish GFW. The whole movie is terrible. I liked Monster X though, but then they ruined a new monster by him transforming into a hideous four legged Ghidorah. Godzilla looks like a rat. Angurius looked good though. That's bout all I got to say

[edgaguirus]

So yeah, that's what went wrong, but I wouldn't say it's awful. It really depends how you see it. Final Wars is fun if you shut off your brain or can appreciate and laugh at the cheese, but if you're trying to watch it while trying to take it somewhat seriously then it really goes down the gutter.

Turning off your brain still doesn't completely save the film. Some of that dialogue is just too bad to ignore.