Kiryu Saga Love/Hate

[eabaker]

The two Kiryu flicks seem to draw a very mixed reaction from fans. I'm curious, for those who give them a high ranking, what is it that you like so much about them? And for those who rank them nearer the bottom of the series, what is it about them that fails?

I'll hold off on getting into my own opinions for the time being.

[Red-Death Gigan]

These films, compared to some, are a fun kick-back to the 70's Godzilla awesomeness.

[Destroyer]

I'm going to watch these again soon since it's been about a year.

Against Mechagodzilla I don't truly mind. I think it's pretty solid. Kiryu was introduced well off the bat, and the monster scenes were well done. The main character is pretty likable, and the film isn't too dull. Not a fan of Godzilla's portrayal, he doesn't retreat.

Tokyo SOS is another story. It's a complete rehash of the previous film, they just added in Mothra. It's just really dull, with the only good parts I can think of are some of the monster scenes and Kiryu's 'sayonara.'

I like Against, but not too fond of SOS.

[Smuggers]

I like how agile Kiryu is compared to the other Mechagodzillas that seldom move, but at the same time I hate how the Godzilla is so stiff (the scene where he is bombarded by Kiryu's missiles in GxMG and doesn't even react comes to mind). As far as effects go, they generally have the upper hand compared to previous efforts. The two films are also extremely similar which turns a lot of people off.

[Godzilla165]

The main reason why I love the Kiryu saga is because of the moody type of tone both films had. All of the other millennium films were too up beat and cracked too many jokes for my taste (with the exception being GMK and MAYBE 2000). The Kiryu saga still had some light-hearted scenes but still managed to keep its seriousness intact. The action was great, the suits were really good, and the mood was perfect to the two movies. Kiryu also stole the show as well, and the Godzilla vs Godzilla aspect was cool as well. The only gripe I have is how dull they made Godzilla act, he's the main character in HIS franchise but in the Kiryu saga he was reverted to being a brainless, radioactive animal. They really pushed him aside to focus on Kiryu I know, but they still could've given Kiryu the same character development and still make him a badass, and still make Godzilla move and act natural.

[Terasawa]

I'm just going to repost this from a recent discussion on Facebook.

"I used to like SOS a lot, and for a while it was my favorite Millennium film, but watching it again just now was a completely different experience. I don't really like any of Masaaki Tezuka's Godzilla films, but GXMG is definitely the best of the three. I think that, if the first 3/4 of SOS had been more focused on developing the (awful) characters, establishing a better three-way conflict between the title monsters, and doing more than paying lip-service to the film's message, it would have been Tezuka's best by far.

It bothers me that the Shobijin are so adamant about mankind returning Godzilla's bones, but still send Mothra to defend Japan as soon as Godzilla shows up, even though the bones aren't returned until the end of the film. When Kiryu is dispatched to aid Mothra, they fight alongside each other to subdue/kill Godzilla. This obviously isn't the solution Mothra or the Shobijin want: they want a peaceful solution if possible, and the bones of the 54 Godzilla left undisturbed. When you think about it, Godzilla 2003 is really the hero: he supposedly only wants to see the bones of his ancestor returned to the sea. Having Mothra fight against this Godzilla doesn't make much sense to me.

Still, the special effects are really good. They're stylish like the other Millennium films' FX, but they're consistently well-executed here. And like Tezuka's other Godzilla movies, the climax is suspenseful and really cool. As I said, the last twenty minutes are really good. It's no coincidence that the ethically-confused Mothra & Mechagodzilla vs. Godzilla stuff is all done by that point."

Michiru Oshima's score is the only really strong thing about any of the three Tezuka films. GXMG is only tolerable to me because it's short and basically a more engaging version of GXM. I just wish that Mimura had bothered to clarify why the hell Godzilla was attacking Japan. Without watching the next movie (in which its explained), you really wouldn't know. Godzilla is a character too, and in fact the character we watch these films to see. If his role is pointless, then there's no reason to watch the movie.

[Red-Death Gigan]

I actually PREFER Tokyo SOS over GaMG! But, that's just MY opinion. GaMG was kinda weak, if you ask me...

[Smuggers]

I used to to think that too, but I recently re-watched GxMG and discovered it was a much more interesting movie overall.

[20th Century Boy]

Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla is actually my third-favorite in the franchise and I think it's severely underrated despite a few minor flaws. Sure it's the third-highest rated Godzilla film on imdb, but the fanbase seems to disregard it as just another banal entry in the Millennium Series. Personally, I think it's great even if it's afraid of taking risks. The human characters were pretty cliched; we've seen these types of people in cartoons and other sci-fi movies. However, I still feel that they're mostly all likeable. They deliver a few humorous lines and I actually cared about their situation. It's not a perfect representation of human characters in a monster movie, but it's good enough for making the movie as a whole more seamless with the monster scenes. You're actually caring instead of waiting for some monsters to smash stuff. The music was amazing, although I don't think anyone will be as good as Ifukube. This is the closest we're gonna get, I guess. The Godzilla suit was a perfect blend of his cat-like 2000 look and his classic charcoal grey representation. Yes, I do agree that Godzilla's character is badly represented. However, this is more of a film about Kiryu. Godzilla is merely a plot device that serves as a source of the conflict. Perhaps if the filmakers titled it after Kiryu, it would have received a lot more respect from fans. Overall, I'd not only call this a good Godzilla film; I'd call it a good sci-fi film in general. 8/10. I'll post my opinion of Godzilla Tokyo S.O.S. on another post since this one is already long enough.

[tymon]

My thoughts from another thread:

The Kiryu films have some amazing FX, suits, and money shots up the whazoo - which are some of the most vital elements in kaiju entertainment for me. However, the stories pretty much suck, as do the characters (besides Akane) and most of the score (I love the themes established in Megaguirus and Mothra's theme, but can't stand everything else). Both films, but SOS especially, feel very bland and borderline depressing in their presentation. Still, the strengths are there, and SOS Kiryu-Goji is one of my favorite suits ever.

Still, the special effects are really good. They're stylish like the other Millennium films' FX, but they're consistently well-executed here.

Which is a huge pro. Effects are hit-and-miss in the 00 films, but much less so in the Kiryu installments.

[TheLonelyGarasharp]

I found them both fun to watch, but if i had to pick one. Tokyo SOS because of Mothra.

[MaxRebo320]

I'll admit that the last time I saw the GxMG it was Dubbed.
It didn't age well with me.

Better than Final Wars though.

GxMG has some pretty bad lines when dubbed.

Why do they have to fight? They just want to be friends!

[Godzilla628]

The Kiryu Saga are two of my favorite Godzilla movies, but I prefer Tokyo S.O.S to Against. I think Tokyo S.O.S would have been a better sendoff movie for the Big G than Final Wars.

[tymon]

I actually watched Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla last night, and didn't even realize until afterward that Saturday was the tenth anniversary of the film. The SFX and suits are better in SOS, but I still prefer this first film overall.

[GodzillaFreak99]

I personally love both films of the Kiryu saga. Why? it would have to be well, everything: the story, the characters, the monster action and the Kiryu character itself. In short, both of these films are badass.

[Pkmatrix]

I've got mixed feelings about the Kiryu saga.

I like GxMG quite a bit - it's tied with GMK as my favorite post-Biollante Godzilla movie. I like the world, I like the characters, and I like Kiryu - it has flaws, yeah, and GMK is a technically better film, but there's a lot to enjoy about the first Kiryu film.

Tokyo SOS, on the other hand, I can't stand. The script is a mess and the story an incredibly disappointing remake of MvG combined with a rehash of the previous film. The last twenty minutes are fun (and I like the monsters' designs here), but that's about it. GxMG deserved far better for a sequel.

[ScootaVaran]

I actually thought these were the best out of the millenium series. Godzilla looked great, MechaGodzilla looked and moved amazingly compared to the heisei era. Plus I love the all the references to the Showa era!
Besides the simple ones like having Kamoebas as a cameo (a dead one) but, did anyone notice that the Japanese army was wearing the same uniform styles from the 60's Godzilla movies?

[Lord Gappa]

^Yeah, if you consider them as one big movie instead of two then it can be really enjoyable.

Against sets up the story and is more centered on the plot then SOS. SOS is where shit really kicks off.

[Eunectes]

Love.

GMK is amazing.
Tokyo S.O.S is good, but could have been better.

[Mr. X]

I used to love both of them. Now I find them average at best.