Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

edgaguirus · Post by **edgaguirus** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:54 pm

As time goes on, memories can be altered and things mixed up.

On topic, it's a pity we had to wait for his 60th for a good G film. FW was allright for a Godzilla film, but not as the big 50th.

szmigiel · Post by **szmigiel** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:53 am

To me making a big deal about a film coming out on an anniversary is pure marketing. A film shouldn't be better just because it is coming out on an anniversary, each film should be able to stand on its own whether it is an anniversary year or not.

KingKaiju · Post by **KingKaiju** » Fri May 01, 2015 6:05 am

HOLY CRAP!!! GFW only made $9 million on a $20 million budget?!?! No wonder this series went away for 10 years. I mean, I know they were talking about not bringing him back for a while, but jeez! I remember a lot of people were speculating that they were probably only going to keep him away for 3-5 years. Legendary's movie was definitely something that needed to happen. Not that it was amazing or anything, because I feel like it had a lot of similar problems to GFW, but it brought him back in a good light. Damn.

Monster Zero · Post by **Monster Zero** » Sat May 02, 2015 7:14 am

After looking at the poster just now I noticed something really weird. Right in between Monster X and Gigan there is a Xenomorph from Alien in there...

ernesth100 · Post by **ernesth100** » Sat May 02, 2015 7:38 am

Monster Zero wrote:After looking at the poster just now I noticed something really weird. Right in between Monster X and Gigan there is a Xenomorph from Alien in there...

That's Monster X's shoulder thingy.

Monster Zero · Post by **Monster Zero** » Sat May 02, 2015 7:51 am

ernesth100 wrote:
Monster Zero wrote:After looking at the poster just now I noticed something really weird. Right in between Monster X and Gigan there is a Xenomorph from Alien in there...
That's Monster X's shoulder thingy.

So it is.... Why didn't I see it that way before?

Goji · Post by **Goji** » Sat May 02, 2015 8:39 am

Excellent question.

KaijuFiend · Post by **KaijuFiend** » Sat May 02, 2015 1:47 pm

Decided to show my partner this film, since I'm forcing him to watch every Godzilla movie (I am a horrible person). This time, I noticed how ill-fitting a lot of the music is. Final Wars is probably the only Godzilla film that has kinda bad, ill-fitting music. I suppose it could be argued that some Showa films have music that doesn't quite fit, but at least that's because they were reusing Ifukube's scores. There are a few good songs that do fit, but it's a bit baffling that most of them just don't go with the scene they're attached to, because Final Wars had an almost-completely original score.

kamilleblu · Post by **kamilleblu** » Sat May 02, 2015 2:36 pm

KingKaiju wrote:HOLY CRAP!!! GFW only made $9 million on a $20 million budget?!?! No wonder this series went away for 10 years. I mean, I know they were talking about not bringing him back for a while, but jeez! I remember a lot of people were speculating that they were probably only going to keep him away for 3-5 years. Legendary's movie was definitely something that needed to happen. Not that it was amazing or anything, because I feel like it had a lot of similar problems to GFW, but it brought him back in a good light. Damn.

It did similar business to the other films in the Millennium Era. The budget was just insane and the film weaker than usual even for its time. Plus it had to compete against Howl's Moving Castle and The Incredibles. Most of the budget was wasted on location shooting, while the special effects are arguably worse than some of the films that came before it. Just a bad situation all around.

Mr. Xeno · Post by **Mr. Xeno** » Sat May 02, 2015 7:31 pm

kamilleblu wrote: It did similar business to the other films in the Millennium Era.

The Millennium films go as follows:

GMK: 2.4 million tickets
2000: 2 million tickets
MechaGodzilla: 1.7 million tickets
Megauirus: 1.35 million tickets
Toyko SOS: 1.1 million tickets
Final Wars: 1 million tickets

So not really. Similar to Megaguirus and Tokyo SOS, yes, but those were already on the lower end of the spectrum for the era.

Captain Aktion · Post by **Captain Aktion** » Sat May 02, 2015 7:40 pm

IIRC, the average box-office in Japan during those years was seeing a steady decline across the board.

Kaiju no Kami · Post by **Kaiju no Kami** » Sat May 02, 2015 8:38 pm

Goji wrote:Not that it really matters, but it wasn't released on DVD in this country until the fall of 2005, so you couldn't have "rented it" in 2004, KaijuFiend. It wasn't even released to Japanese theaters until November of '04

That's not exactly true. The renting part yes, but not the viewing one. I had a copy of the movie I downloaded on Dec 22nd 2004 that was not a theater rip, and if it was, it was the best theater recording ever.

As for the music, it isn't the first Godzilla movie to have misplaced music. Hedorah, Megalon, and Space Godzilla have the same issue.

Goji · Post by **Goji** » Sun May 03, 2015 6:31 am

Okay, seriously? You know exactly what I meant, Kain. I'm talking about legitimate copies, (and ways of watching) the movie.

I'm not sure what part of my post "isn't true". Both of those facts (fall '04 theatrical release in Japan, fall '05 DVD release in the States) are correct, so I really don't know what the purpose of your reply was.

Legion1979 · Post by **Legion1979** » Sun May 03, 2015 2:32 pm

Get used to it. This is pretty par for the course.

Hybrid Gojira · Post by **Hybrid Gojira** » Fri May 22, 2015 8:07 am

I watched it last night (I've been on a Godzilla binge lately) for the first time in a while. I think it sucks overall, but more on that in a bit.

I'll start with the pros for the movie:

Gigan and Mothra look great. I like MX.
Rodan's destruction scenes are pretty nifty despite some iffy CGI at times.
The story has some good ideas, but ultimately there is too much going on. I like that they took ideas from different Toho films but...

The Cons:
This film barely feels like a Godzilla movie at all. There is too much Matrix and not enough Godzilla. Kitamura was too busy making a crazy martial arts film to focus on the monsters, so we get 30 seconds of fighting for Godzilla and far too much fighting from the stupid mutants.

I think most of the monster designs suck or are poorly realized. Kumonga looks cool, but his execution leaves much to be desired. Manda's CGI is horrendous. Kamacuras looks incredibly fake. Why bother including Hedorah at all? He's in the film for 10 seconds. Most of the matte shots are poor and the special effects are wildly inconsistent. Some of the sequences are TV CGI bad.

Oh, and the music awful. It's easily one of the WORST scored films of the entire series.

So yeah, this movie sucks. I'd take most Showa films over it any day given the fact they told the stories much better and at least gave Godzilla something to fight for more than 30 seconds.

Lastly, WORST GHIDORAH EVER. This Ghidorah makes GMK King Ghidorah look good, and that's hard to accomplish.

It's a shame that this piece of trash is what Toho used to send Godzilla off into the sunset for more than a decade.

Post by **LSD Jellyfish** » Fri May 22, 2015 7:19 pm

I'm glad to see more people are watching it with an open eye even if they find flaws with it^^
I'm not really sure what happened since I last made the mistake of being in this thread but it's nice anyways. I'd just like the clarify somethings:
Godzilla Final Wars is not my favorite movie and it certainly has some faults. However I never, and still don't, understand why people were bashing others for enjoying the film much earlier. It's got some good things (Gigan's Redesign, Monster X) and some great moments (The Monster rampages, Godzilla beating the shit out of Zilla, and the fight with Keizer Ghidorah. And yeah I like the idea of super mutants fighting monsters on foot as well as a wide use of vehicles. It's cool for the people in a Godzilla movie to actually stand a chance.

I feel like I need to bring this up again but people keep saying the movie is a ripoff of the matrix. It's true the bullet stopping thing was a real rip off but plenty of movies have done the same thing (XMen). I'm not saying that's good but you need to realize the Matrix was inspired by a lot of Japanese and Chinese King fu movies. It's not like the Matrix was wholly original to begin with. The matrix balanced neat action with pseudo philosophical bullshit. Crazy action belongs more in a crazy godzilla movie than it does in the Mateix, IMO.

Hybrid Gojira · Post by **Hybrid Gojira** » Fri May 22, 2015 7:28 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:I feel like I need to bring this up again but people keep saying the movie is a ripoff of the matrix. It's true the bullet stopping thing was a real rip off but plenty of movies have done the same thing (XMen). I'm not saying that's good but you need to realize the Matrix was inspired by a lot of Japanese and Chinese King fu movies. It's not like the Matrix was wholly original to begin with. The matrix balanced neat action with pseudo philosophical bullshit. Crazy action belongs more in a crazy godzilla movie than it does in the Mateix, IMO.

Godzilla is no stranger to ripping off other movies - The Heisei series takes from Indiana Jones (Godzilla vs Mothra92) and Aliens (the mini aggregate Destoroyahs actually have the same attack as the aliens as are the flame throwers that kill a few of them). The difference here is that the Mutant combat feels out of place for a movie that was supposed to bring together the best ideas from the previous Toho films. It does borrow heavily from the Matrix - the outfits, the fights, the slow-mo bullets - but this was supposed to be a Godzilla film. Instead, it feels like an action movie with Godzilla thrown in the mix. I point to the 30 second fight scenes with other monsters and wonder what could have been IF they spent more time with the kaiju and less time with the mutants that don't really belong.

Post by **LSD Jellyfish** » Fri May 22, 2015 7:33 pm

Hybrid Gojira wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:I feel like I need to bring this up again but people keep saying the movie is a ripoff of the matrix. It's true the bullet stopping thing was a real rip off but plenty of movies have done the same thing (XMen). I'm not saying that's good but you need to realize the Matrix was inspired by a lot of Japanese and Chinese King fu movies. It's not like the Matrix was wholly original to begin with. The matrix balanced neat action with pseudo philosophical bullshit. Crazy action belongs more in a crazy godzilla movie than it does in the Mateix, IMO.

Godzilla is no stranger to ripping off other movies - The Heisei series takes from Indiana Jones (Godzilla vs Mothra92) and Aliens (the mini aggregate Destoroyahs actually have the same attack as the aliens as are the flame throwers that kill a few of them). The difference here is that the Mutant combat feels out of place for a movie that was supposed to bring together the best ideas from the previous Toho films. It does borrow heavily from the Matrix - the outfits, the fights, the slow-mo bullets - but this was supposed to be a Godzilla film. Instead, it feels like an action movie with Godzilla thrown in the mix. I point to the 30 second fight scenes with other monsters and wonder what could have been IF they spent more time with the kaiju and less time with the mutants that don't really belong.

Yeah I know Godzilla has ripped off a lot. When you put it that way, that the film was supposed to represent a lot of Tohos best ideas but seemed to introduce to many new things I get your point. However, knowing that it's not the final film I don't mind that it was really crazy and different. I like how many different Godzilla films there are and if I want something slower and better I'll just watch Godzilla vs Biollante.

Let's say the fight scenes between Godzilla and the monsters were longer. Would you like the movie even if the kungfu stuff was still all in there?

Hybrid Gojira · Post by **Hybrid Gojira** » Fri May 22, 2015 7:48 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
Hybrid Gojira wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:I feel like I need to bring this up again but people keep saying the movie is a ripoff of the matrix. It's true the bullet stopping thing was a real rip off but plenty of movies have done the same thing (XMen). I'm not saying that's good but you need to realize the Matrix was inspired by a lot of Japanese and Chinese King fu movies. It's not like the Matrix was wholly original to begin with. The matrix balanced neat action with pseudo philosophical bullshit. Crazy action belongs more in a crazy godzilla movie than it does in the Mateix, IMO.

Godzilla is no stranger to ripping off other movies - The Heisei series takes from Indiana Jones (Godzilla vs Mothra92) and Aliens (the mini aggregate Destoroyahs actually have the same attack as the aliens as are the flame throwers that kill a few of them). The difference here is that the Mutant combat feels out of place for a movie that was supposed to bring together the best ideas from the previous Toho films. It does borrow heavily from the Matrix - the outfits, the fights, the slow-mo bullets - but this was supposed to be a Godzilla film. Instead, it feels like an action movie with Godzilla thrown in the mix. I point to the 30 second fight scenes with other monsters and wonder what could have been IF they spent more time with the kaiju and less time with the mutants that don't really belong.
Yeah I know Godzilla has ripped off a lot. When you put it that way, that the film was supposed to represent a lot of Tohos best ideas but seemed to introduce to many new things I get your point. However, knowing that it's not the final film I don't mind that it was really crazy and different. I like how many different Godzilla films there are and if I want something slower and better I'll just watch Godzilla vs Biollante.

Let's say the fight scenes between Godzilla and the monsters were longer. Would you like the movie even if the kungfu stuff was still all in there?

Not really.

The movie is already 2 hours long and feels very bloated as it is. The Mutant fighting stuff should take a back seat to other things such as story telling and focusing on the kaiju.

Some of the Mutant fight scenes were well done, but some look pretty bad and rushed. And there is no redeeming this movie's score. It's awful.

Post by **LSD Jellyfish** » Fri May 22, 2015 9:45 pm

I think the most pointless part of the film was the forced rivalry between Ozaki and that other random dude. The opening scene with them fighting and then the other dudes sacrifice were uneeded, I'll agree to that. However I still like the scene with Ebirah fighting the mutants and I thought that redeemed the concept of the mutants for me. I'd love to see the mutants concept used again but perhaps executed a little better.
As far as the music goes I like it. Music is a subjective thing. I think the music fit the movie. If you had Ikifube music overlaying a lot of things in the film it just wouldn't work. I do wish they used the original godzilla theme for the opening credits montage. I also liked the triumphant music that plays during the end and the music that plays when Rodan attacks. There's a strong possibility I liked the music simply because I'm nostalgic for it as I saw this, and many other Godzilla films when I was really young.

Toho Kingdom

Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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