Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

[godzilla5417]

I'd much rather The King get jumped by a shitton of monsters and rip him apart

I've noticed in past discussions with you that the idea of Godzilla getting the shit beaten out of him really pleases you. Are you some kind of Kaiju sadist, do you only watch Godzilla movies because seeing him suffer gives you some kind of sexual satisfaction human interaction can't give you?

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

I'd much rather The King get jumped by a shitton of monsters and rip him apart

I've noticed in past discussions with you that the idea of Godzilla getting the shit beaten out of him really pleases you. Are you some kind of Kaiju sadist, do you only watch Godzilla movies because seeing him suffer gives you some kind of sexual satisfaction human interaction can't give you?

Dang that's twisted.

[Cybermat47]

I'd much rather The King get jumped by a shitton of monsters and rip him apart

I've noticed in past discussions with you that the idea of Godzilla getting the shit beaten out of him really pleases you. Are you some kind of Kaiju sadist, do you only watch Godzilla movies because seeing him suffer gives you some kind of sexual satisfaction human interaction can't give you?

If he's anything like me, he's just saying that to troll Godzilla fanboys who insist that "godzila is th king an nothing can bet him i h8 kink ong an gaymera heil to the kinf baby "

Also, I like how you immediately start personally insulting him based on his opinion about a series of movies

[Lain Of The Wired]

I'd much rather The King get jumped by a shitton of monsters and rip him apart

I've noticed in past discussions with you that the idea of Godzilla getting the shit beaten out of him really pleases you. Are you some kind of Kaiju sadist, do you only watch Godzilla movies because seeing him suffer gives you some kind of sexual satisfaction human interaction can't give you?

Sorry, no, I just like to bash your Messiah™

[godzilla5417]

Sorry, no, I just like to bash your Messiah™

One day Godzilla will find you, then you'll regret ever talking smack about him.

Added in 42 minutes 22 seconds:

Also, I like how you immediately start personally insulting him based on his opinion about a series of movies

It wasn't really meant as an insult-it was meant as a joke!

[Cybermat47]

Sorry, no, I just like to bash your Messiah™

One day Godzilla will find you, then you'll regret ever talking smack about him.

Added in 42 minutes 22 seconds:

Also, I like how you immediately start personally insulting him based on his opinion about a series of movies

It wasn't really meant as an insult-it was meant as a joke!

Because calling him a psychopath who is incapable of having normal sexual relationships due to his opinion about a film is so funny

[Dawsbfiremind]

This was my favorite Godzilla film when I was little, so I decided to order it via Netflix to relive some memories. Boy howdy, this film stinks.
"Do not try and understand the plot. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no plot. Then you will see it is not the plot that is warped, but the entire movie."

[szmigiel]

This was my favorite Godzilla film when I was little, so I decided to order it via Netflix to relive some memories. Boy howdy, this film stinks.
"Do not try and understand the plot. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no plot. Then you will see it is not the plot that is warped, but the entire movie."

I didn't find the plot that hard to follow.

Aliens seeded the Earth 12,000 years in the past with their M Base, but were driven away by Mothra, leaving Gigan behind. The older commander wants to use deception to help subjugate mankind. They release all the kajiu they control with M Base to attack sites around the globe. Then show up to stop the kaiju and bring the rescued UN Security-General back claiming they are here to help. Not only did they stop the kaiju but they came to warn mankind about Gorath, a rouge planet that is headed for Earth, and needs to be destroyed by aiming all nuclear weapons at it. At the same time they are replacing important people with duplicates.

Our heroes figure this out, release Captain Gordon who they know hasn’t been replace, and set a trap to expose the aliens and their plot. Since they are basically exposed to the world live on TV, the young alien commander decides to take over and do things his way. He takes control of the mutant soldiers since they have M Base, only one mutant soldier one of our heroes seems to be immune. Then the young alien commander release all the kaiju again, as well as their fighter ships, to wreck havoc on the cities of the world. They pretty much destroy all major civilizations and any chance of the humans forming a resistance.

Our heroes escape to the Gotengo, which was under repair and ready for action. They head down to Antartica to free Godzilla who doesn’t have any M Base and can’t be controlled. They lure him back towards Tokyo and the mothership. Along the way the aliens try to stop him with different kaiju that all pretty much fail.

Once back the Gotengo tires to to attack the mothership, it is able to breach the shield but the crew is captured and taken to the young alien commander. He explains that mankind will become their food source and will be treated like cattle on the farm, allowed to breed but no need for civilization or technology. The young alien commander reveals that Gorath was another kaiju, Monster X. Godzilla and Monster X battle, Mothra shows up to help and the aliens send up Powered-Up Gigan to join the battle. The young alien commander also reveals that both he and our mutant solider hero are Kaisers, a power level higher then anyone else. The young alien commander attempts to control our mutant solider hero, but he is able to resist with the help of a token given to him by Mothra’s faire twins.
During the fight Godzilla’s ray hits the mothership givien the heroes a chance to fight, they escape back to the Gotengo, getting assistance from some of the humans that were captured and replaced. The two Kaisers fight and our hero ends up winning and headed back to the Gotengo. Once outside they witness Monster X, transforming into Kaiser Ghidorah who starts to wear down Godzilla. Our mutant solider hero is able to transfer some of his Kaiser power into Godzilla who is then able to finally defeat Kaiser Ghidorah.

Once the battle is over Godzilla approaches the Gotengo and her crew but is stop by Minilla, who helps to convince Godzilla to leave the humans alone for now.

[godzilla5417]

I didn't find the plot that hard to follow.

Aliens seeded the Earth 12,000 years in the past with their M Base, but were driven away by Mothra, leaving Gigan behind. The older commander wants to use deception to help subjugate mankind. They release all the kajiu they control with M Base to attack sites around the globe. Then show up to stop the kaiju and bring the rescued UN Security-General back claiming they are here to help. Not only did they stop the kaiju but they came to warn mankind about Gorath, a rouge planet that is headed for Earth, and needs to be destroyed by aiming all nuclear weapons at it. At the same time they are replacing important people with duplicates.

Our heroes figure this out, release Captain Gordon who they know hasn’t been replace, and set a trap to expose the aliens and their plot. Since they are basically exposed to the world live on TV, the young alien commander decides to take over and do things his way. He takes control of the mutant soldiers since they have M Base, only one mutant soldier one of our heroes seems to be immune. Then the young alien commander release all the kaiju again, as well as their fighter ships, to wreck havoc on the cities of the world. They pretty much destroy all major civilizations and any chance of the humans forming a resistance.

Our heroes escape to the Gotengo, which was under repair and ready for action. They head down to Antartica to free Godzilla who doesn’t have any M Base and can’t be controlled. They lure him back towards Tokyo and the mothership. Along the way the aliens try to stop him with different kaiju that all pretty much fail.

Once back the Gotengo tires to to attack the mothership, it is able to breach the shield but the crew is captured and taken to the young alien commander. He explains that mankind will become their food source and will be treated like cattle on the farm, allowed to breed but no need for civilization or technology. The young alien commander reveals that Gorath was another kaiju, Monster X. Godzilla and Monster X battle, Mothra shows up to help and the aliens send up Powered-Up Gigan to join the battle. The young alien commander also reveals that both he and our mutant solider hero are Kaisers, a power level higher then anyone else. The young alien commander attempts to control our mutant solider hero, but he is able to resist with the help of a token given to him by Mothra’s faire twins.
During the fight Godzilla’s ray hits the mothership givien the heroes a chance to fight, they escape back to the Gotengo, getting assistance from some of the humans that were captured and replaced. The two Kaisers fight and our hero ends up winning and headed back to the Gotengo. Once outside they witness Monster X, transforming into Kaiser Ghidorah who starts to wear down Godzilla. Our mutant solider hero is able to transfer some of his Kaiser power into Godzilla who is then able to finally defeat Kaiser Ghidorah.

Once the battle is over Godzilla approaches the Gotengo and her crew but is stop by Minilla, who helps to convince Godzilla to leave the humans alone for now.

1+
Very easy to follow, story is more cohesive and makes more sense then a lot of Godzilla movies.
Something I really like about Final Wars story is that the humans are much more integral to the plot.

[Cybermat47]

Very easy to follow, story is more cohesive and makes more sense then a lot of Godzilla movies.
Something I really like about Final Wars story is that the humans are much more integral to the plot.

Yes, but they're integral at the expense of Godzilla.

Godzilla only saves the world at the end because the Gotengo led him to Tokyo. His only goal throughout the film is to destroy the Gotengo - the Xiliens are just an obstacle to that goal. Which I would be okay with, if the film wasn't made to celebrate the 50th Anniversary.

Contrast this with something like Godzilla (2014), where it's both the Humans and Godzilla who each purposefully contribute to the destruction of the MUTOs. Godzilla doesn't need to be tricked into fighting the MUTOs - it's his objective throughout the entire film.

Don't get me wrong, I think FW is a decent film. But a 50th Anniversary film has to be amazing, not just decent.

[szmigiel]

Yes, but they're integral at the expense of Godzilla.

Godzilla only saves the world at the end because the Gotengo led him to Tokyo. His only goal throughout the film is to destroy the Gotengo - the Xiliens are just an obstacle to that goal.

I think Godzilla Vs. Destoroyah has the same issue. Godzilla is dying from the very start. Is lured to Tokyo because he is following Junior, only fights Destoroyah because he attacks him and kills Juinor. And then doesn't even get to kill Destoroyah at the end because he starts to meltdown.

Which I would be okay with, if the film wasn't made to celebrate the 50th Anniversary.

I think that has a lot to do with Shogo Tomiyama who plotted the film to be more of a 50th Anniversary of Toho Sci-fi and not just Godzilla. Most fans tend to blame Ryuhei Kitamura, but the film was already plotted and the 1st draft written before he was even hired.

Contrast this with something like Godzilla (2014), where it's both the Humans and Godzilla who each purposefully contribute to the destruction of the MUTOs. Godzilla doesn't need to be tricked into fighting the MUTOs - it's his objective throughout the entire film.

In Godzilla (2014) It comes off that the Humans just make matters worse. They are the ones moving the nuke that the MUTO steal and set up shop in San Fransisco endangering millions. Barely getting the nuke into the bay where it later blows up which is not a good outcome at all.

[Cybermat47]

I think Godzilla Vs. Destoroyah has the same issue. Godzilla is dying from the very start. Is lured to Tokyo because he is following Junior, only fights Destoroyah because he attacks him and kills Juinor. And then doesn't even get to kill Destoroyah at the end because he starts to meltdown.

Yep, that's definitely my biggest problem with GvD.

I think that has a lot to do with Shogo Tomiyama who plotted the film to be more of a 50th Anniversary of Toho Sci-fi and not just Godzilla. Most fans tend to blame Ryuhei Kitamura, but the film was already plotted and the 1st draft written before he was even hired.

Really? If that's the case, then the film is much better IMO.

In Godzilla (2014) It comes off that the Humans just make matters worse. They are the ones moving the nuke that the MUTO steal and set up shop in San Fransisco endangering millions. Barely getting the nuke into the bay where it later blows up which is not a good outcome at all.

True, but at least they tried

[BooLugosi]

Sorry, no, I just like to bash your Messiah™

One day Godzilla will find you, then you'll regret ever talking smack about him.

Yeah, I hate to crush your dreams but if Goji was ever real, he'd collapse in on himself. Especially this version since he's so big in the film.

[godzilla5417]

Sorry, no, I just like to bash your Messiah™

One day Godzilla will find you, then you'll regret ever talking smack about him.

Yeah, I hate to crush your dreams but if Goji was ever real, he'd collapse in on himself. Especially this version since he's so big in the film.

Actually if Godzilla was real, like actually GODZILLA himself-not some sea serpent that vaguely resembles him! He would be able to support his own weight, do you wanna know way? Because Godzilla's science,biology and psychics are completely fictional- he is an unreal character that breaks the laws of psychics. A god. If he was real he would completely alter the way we perceive the world around us, things we thought impossible could potentially be possible. Saying Godzilla wouldn't be able to support his own weight if he was real, is a lot like saying Superman wouldn't be able to fly,shoot lasers,survive in space and be almost indestructible. Godzilla is made up of unrealistic stuff, he would make our reality unrealistic with his existence. Everything he does in the movies he would fully be capable of doing here, because Godzilla is exactly what you see in the movies!

Added in 9 minutes 54 seconds:

Very easy to follow, story is more cohesive and makes more sense then a lot of Godzilla movies.
Something I really like about Final Wars story is that the humans are much more integral to the plot.

Yes, but they're integral at the expense of Godzilla.

Godzilla only saves the world at the end because the Gotengo led him to Tokyo. His only goal throughout the film is to destroy the Gotengo - the Xiliens are just an obstacle to that goal. Which I would be okay with, if the film wasn't made to celebrate the 50th Anniversary.

Contrast this with something like Godzilla (2014), where it's both the Humans and Godzilla who each purposefully contribute to the destruction of the MUTOs. Godzilla doesn't need to be tricked into fighting the MUTOs - it's his objective throughout the entire film.

Don't get me wrong, I think FW is a decent film. But a 50th Anniversary film has to be amazing, not just decent.

it's funny that you use 2014's Godzilla as a comparison, Godzilla has more screen time in FW then 14. Especially considering he's obscured by dust and lots of crap half the time in 14. I didn't really have a problem with Godzilla being tricked into fighting the other monsters because Godzilla has been tricked before in previous movies. Plus if did catch up to the Gotengo and destroy it, he probably would go after the other monsters on his own accord afterwards-just for territorial purposes.

[Lain Of The Wired]

^ Eh, Godzilla's still a puss, real or not.
#Slatternking

OT- Someone needs to dig out the original script that called for Oodaku and Godzilla going super saiyan and flying around
I bet that's be a blast to translate

[Cybermat47]

Actually if Godzilla was real, like actually GODZILLA himself-not some sea serpent that vaguely resembles him! He would be able to support his own weight, do you wanna know way? Because Godzilla's science,biology and psychics are completely fictional- he is an unreal character that breaks the laws of psychics. A god. If he was real he would completely alter the way we perceive the world around us, things we thought impossible could potentially be possible. Saying Godzilla wouldn't be able to support his own weight if he was real, is a lot like saying Superman wouldn't be able to fly,shoot lasers,survive in space and be almost indestructible. Godzilla is made up of unrealistic stuff, he would make our reality unrealistic with his existence. Everything he does in the movies he would fully be capable of doing here, because Godzilla is exactly what you see in the movies!

it's funny that you use 2014's Godzilla as a comparison, Godzilla has more screen time in FW then 14. Especially considering he's obscured by dust and lots of crap half the time in 14.

That's true... but it has nothing to do with what I was saying.

I didn't really have a problem with Godzilla being tricked into fighting the other monsters because Godzilla has been tricked before in previous movies.

Interesting. One minute you're going out of your way to insult anyone who says something bad about Godzilla, then the next you're saying that you're okay with him being used as a pawn.

Plus if did catch up to the Gotengo and destroy it, he probably would go after the other monsters on his own accord afterwards-just for territorial purposes.

Yeah, but that's not what happened, is it?

[Lain Of The Wired]

Dude b tr0llin'. Dont try to make sense of it

But seriously, I want more info on Godzilla flying, like if it literally meant he'd fly around Gigan style or v. Hedorah style

[godzilla5417]

Dude b tr0llin'. Dont try to make sense of it

The stuff that I wrote about 'IF' Godzilla was real, were my serious thoughts!

Added in 30 minutes 32 seconds:

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/fac ... cepalm.jpg

There's nothing worse then Godzilla giving you the face palm!

That's true... but it has nothing to do with what I was saying.

I know. I just felt like throwing it in.

Interesting. One minute you're going out of your way to insult anyone who says something bad about Godzilla, then the next you're saying that you're okay with him being used as a pawn.

It just didn't bother me because he would have got to all of them at some point in time after waking up anyway.
That insult I made wasn't meant to be taken seriously!

Yeah, but that's not what happened, is it?

No it didn't. But does it really matter, the only reason he didn't destroy the Gotengo is because that little bitch Minilla got in his way. Regardless of which order he defeats his opponents eventually he'd get to the Gotengo, whether it be first or last.

[Lain Of The Wired]

^ Yeah, then the Gotengo would have frozen and shattered his ass, roll credits...
If it wasn't for the Gotengo depleting its own energy, Godzilla would have gotten his ass handed to him again, just like the opening fight during the 70's.

Instead of draining all its juice, it should have just double froze Keizer while he was sucking off Godzilla, then shattered the both of em. Far better ending, IMO

[Zarm]

^ Yeah, then the Gotengo would have frozen and shattered his ass, roll credits...
If it wasn't for the Gotengo depleting its own energy, Godzilla would have gotten his ass handed to him again, just like the opening fight.
Instead of draining all its juice, it should have just double froze Keizer while he was sucking off Godzilla, then shattered the both of em. Far better ending, IMO

I really disbelieve that the Gotengo maser is capable of killing the average kaiju. I realize we only get one demonstrated firing that has that effect (in a sea environment, after pulling an Aleins 3 with the temperature differential, etc.), but the film does not give me the impression that this is a standard capability. Certainly, during the kaiju attacks, the world government (and other flying sub commanders) don't act like they have an arsenal that can one-shot kaiju, or even reliably kill those above the bottom weight-class.

By the same token, for instance, M-squad with hand weapons can take down Ebirah... but I really doubt they could do the same to Gigan or Hedorah, much less Godzilla.

All of which to say, I have severe doubts that the Gotengo could freeze and shatter Godzilla (plus, it was a smoldering ruin at the time anyhow, and the maser had been disabled before they even hit the mothership, I believe, so they couldn't have affected the kaiser fight; Ozaki was just able to channel his energy through the nonfunctional system) just because they were able to do that once to Manda- or that it could even do that to a majority of the kaiju, based on the threat that they still seem to be considered.


For that matter, Godzilla didn't really seem to be getting anything handed to him in the final fight. That appeared to be a last stand of all the Earth's massed armies which appeared to have been going on for a while- and Gotengo, damaged and on last legs, seemed to be one of the last ones standing. Pretty sure from the portrayal that if they hadn't gotten a lucky break of the terrain and been able to trap Godzilla, he was on the verge of eliminating all the combined armies of mankind and making their last-ditch effort to stop him a failure.