That Xilien villian

[GotengoXGodzilla]

The villian fits for this film. GFW shouldn't be taken seriously, and neither should this guy. His expressions and laugh are more like a vaudvillian than a cold blooded conquerer.

An example of vaudeville would be the early days of Charlie Chaplin, and I would not describe the Xillien leader as acting similar to Charlie Chaplin. Not even close.

[Bentley]

This guy is great, over the top with a Johnny Dept quality in his quirkyness, he definitively makes the movie more fun.

And I don't feel he's out of place despite all the death and post-apocalyptic setting, this is the villain after all, he just shouldn't care about what humans think and he just doesn't. To the point it apparently upsets GxG.

Only the greatest villains can get that kind of heated reaction :p

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I feel like now GXG is going to go over why the 1970s films are very dark and why he's the only one who notices it.

Boy, you'd think that people would have listened to the moderators after something like this happened:

http://www.tohokingdom.com/forum/viewto ... 8&start=75

Everyone sans RedZillaKing, GodzillaDude, Legionmaster, and GXG gets a warning for the last page of utter spamtastic nonsense. Not to mention the abhorrent disrespect.

This is a topic for specific discussion, not a goddamn Facebook comments section.

Also, why would I complain, right now, that the '70s films are very dark, when that has nothing to do with SS4G's post? Or anyone else?

Only the greatest villains can get that kind of heated reaction

Or the absolute worst villains.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Well, I'll be honest here, I couldn't really make sense of what you're saying (still can't).

What about my posts doesn't make sense to you then? Point out what doesn't make sense and I'll see what I can do.

Final Wars has, for awhile seemed on the same level of camp as GFW.

...Wait, what?

GFW is just as campy as GFW. And obvious statement is obvious.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Oh dammit, typo. I meant to say it seemed about as much camp as the 70s films.

As I've said before, there really aren't many "campy" moments in the '70s films. The only ones that come to mind are Godzilla flying in Godzilla vs. Hedorah and Godzilla sliding on his tail in Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla. Both of which only last a few seconds, and simply exist to make the audience laugh. They don't linger on them for any longer then they need to, and they don't have much of an impact on either film. They happen, the film moves on and pretends that they never happened.

That's not campy.

Anyway, it's not so much the posts that don't make sense, but your reasoning. I get that you're trying to point out some of the darker aspects of Final Wars, but I honestly can't find myself imagining any movie where someone says "Sorry, I'm a vegetarian." to a giant shrimp before he tries to kill it as dark.

There are light and goofy moments of GFW that pop up every once in a while. But, overall, death surrounds the film. These group of stereotypes and cardboard cutouts are working to save the world from being destroyed by an alien invasion force and try to prevent the human race from becoming cattle. Any film that has such an emphasis on death and makes the human race seem so low has a darker atmosphere in my book. No matter how many bad one-liners are in the film.

[GodzillaDude]

I just find it interesting how you never mentioned any of what you're saying in our conversations. Seems like those feelings about the film would have come up. But hey at there is something you like about the film after all.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I just find it interesting how you never mentioned any of what you're saying in our conversations. Seems like those feelings about the film would have come up. But hey at there is something you like about the film after all.

What makes you think that's something I like about the film? Just because I say the film has a dark atmosphere and tone does not mean I like that. In fact, I don't like it, because it clashes so much with the awful villain the terrible "goofy" moments that TokyoVigilante brought up. Much like my problem with Rodan, it makes it seem like the film can't decide what it wants to be. It's not sure what kind of audience it wants to please, so it tries to please every kind of audience, thus pleasing no audience.

[tenup]

ATTENTION GotengoXGodzilla!!! Xilien's ages are not determined. Which makes it ok for an Xilien to behave like a 3 year old. Viewer discretion advised.

[Tim85]

This thread makes my head hurt.

Anyway, I love the Xilian Controller. As been stated before, he and Frye are the most entertaining part of the film. His arragence (sp?) and over the top attitude is why I made him the main villain in my stories.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I really don't care how old the Xillien leader is (in terms of Xillien years). That's not important. He's played by an adult, we're not given any information that says he's anything other than an adult, therefore he is an adult. So he shouldn't be throwing tantrums when things don't go his way and having the general attitude of a spoiled brat.

That would like if in Return Of The Jedi, Darth Vader started whining about his hand being cut off. Or if in Seven, John Doe was kicking and screaming while being dragged out of the car by Morgan Freeman. In this kind of situation, "spoiled brat" and "villain" do not mix at all.

I'm not saying that the two should ever mix. A spoiled brat villain can work in the right circumstances. This just isn't one of those circumstances however.

[Tim85]

Nothing worked for you in Final Wars. We get it.

Some of us happen to like certain things about the movie regardless of what we think of it as a whole. A lot of us were entertained by the Controller, or Frye, or anything else in the film. Why? We don't know, we just do. We don't need an explanation on why he's this way. He just is the way he is and a lot of us except that.

[Spuro]

This thread makes my head hurt.

Anyway, I love the Xilian Controller. As been stated before, he and Frye are the most entertaining part of the film. His arragence (sp?) and over the top attitude is why I made him the main villain in my stories.

*Arrogance*

On the subject of whether FW has a dark atmosphere or a campy atmosphere, I think it's safe to say that the film itself can't decide. Guess it's just another problem with the movie.

[Julia Bristow]

Okay then GXG tell us how YOU would have the Xillien villian behave?

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I really don't care how old the Xillien leader is (in terms of Xillien years). That's not important. He's played by an adult, we're not given any information that says he's anything other than an adult, therefore he is an adult. So he shouldn't be throwing tantrums when things don't go his way and having the general attitude of a spoiled brat.

You've never seen the flip outs at business board meetings, celebrities, and other high power positions. People with a lot of power despise when things don't go their way. Rage, yelling, childish reasoning happens to be very common when CEO's and celebrities flip out. All because of their power position and its effect on their psychology.

The Xilien Leader is a high being and in a power position. He has political power, martial power, and superpower. He has all these reasons, by his logic, for things to go his way and being handed to them. And they're not. Ergo, he flips out.

Flip outs by people with power are few and far between. Most of them are pretty sensible, since they had to work their way up to the top, displaying control and strength enough to show that they can remain calm under the most difficult of situations. However, if power was thrust upon an individual, then I could understand that person possibly being unstable. But even then, there are other people around them to keep that person in balance. To show them the right path and tell them how to remain calm, since they don't have the experience like a person who earned that power over time.

Seeing how in GFW there was a person higher up then the main villain, I'm going to assume that Xilliens have to work their way to the top, and that they don't just have power thrust upon them. (But that doesn't stop individuals from backstabbing one another). So, I still believe that the Xillien leader should have at least some maturity in what he does. Otherwise, he should not have been in that kind of position.

Nothing worked for you in Final Wars. We get it.

Some of us happen to like certain things about the movie regardless of what we think of it as a whole. A lot of us were entertained by the Controller, or Frye, or anything else in the film.

I never said that you guys couldn't like the Xillien leader or GFW as a whole. If you guys like him or the movie, that's fine. I have no right to tell you that you can't like the film. You guys are all entitled to your opinion. I may disagree with you guys on what makes the movie good or not, but that doesn't mean I'm telling you guys that you're wrong for liking (or disliking) something. It just means that we disagree. If it comes off like I'm saying that, then I apologize.

Why? We don't know, we just do. We don't need an explanation on why he's this way. He just is the way he is and a lot of us except that.

See, this is where we differ. You don't need an explanation on why you like certain aspects of the film. I feel it is absolutely necessary to have an explanation. Because, deep down, even when you're asked the question of why you like something and your answer is "I don't know", odds are you do know why you like something, you just need to think about it more. There's an explanation for everything, including tastes and opinions.

Okay then GXG tell us how YOU would have the Xillien villian behave?

TokyoVigilante asked me that question earlier in this thread. Here was my answer:

Someone whose intelligent and well-behaved, can keep his cool when things don't go his way, gives off a presence that makes it seem like the heroes may not win and that he plan could actually work (ie, is threatening), and if they are an alien, then someone who feels other worldly or foreign to us.

To me, the Xillien leader is none of that.

[Tim85]

Probabaly already brought up but didn't the elder Xilien say "you're still young" or something to the one who ends up shooting him?

Yes. Before the press conference that reveals their true intentions, he asks the elder Xilian about not just dumping the monsters and wipe them out since they have the power. But the elder tells him that he's too young to understand that just because you have the power, doesn't mean you should use it.

It's been over 3 years since I last seen it, most of you already know why, so my memory is a little fuzzy.

This thread makes my head hurt.

Anyway, I love the Xilian Controller. As been stated before, he and Frye are the most entertaining part of the film. His arragence (sp?) and over the top attitude is why I made him the main villain in my stories.

*Arrogance*

Thanks! I can't spell worth a crap today.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

The Xilien Leader wasn't not given power after traditionally gathering it. He killed for power; power was thrust upon him. Nero and Caligula were also very insane men in positions of power.

And yes, people in power do flip out. And when they do, its bad. Almost child-like.

Well for one, insanity does not equal being a spoiled brat or an adult acting like a child. Two, the leader had to get to the second-in-command position somehow. And using the information we were given, I'm going to assume that he had to work his up to that position. That kind of power was not thrust upon him. He had to earn it. So you would think by getting into that kind of position, he would have matured and learned to remain calm. Especially since they're an alien race bent on conquering worlds. If they don't have a stable leader (or second-in-command), then the whole thing falls apart quickly.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

The Xilien Leader wasn't not given power after traditionally gathering it. He killed for power; power was thrust upon him. Nero and Caligula were also very insane men in positions of power.

And yes, people in power do flip out. And when they do, its bad. Almost child-like.

Well for one, insanity does not equal being a spoiled brat or an adult acting like a child. Two, the leader had to get to the second-in-command position somehow. And using the information we were given, I'm going to assume that he had to work his up to that position. That kind of power was not thrust upon him. He had to earn it. So you would think by getting into that kind of position, he would have matured and learned to remain calm. Especially since they're an alien race bent on conquering worlds. If they don't have a stable leader (or second-in-command), then the whole thing falls apart quickly.

Yes, but can't you presume that he was wearing a mask? A lot of people lie and cheat to gain power, often acting differently to get ahead. Once he gains power, this mask is thrown out.

Also, we see that the Xilien was constantly opposed to the calm and controlled Xilien Leader before him. Him being an insane, spoiled brat gives us a binary for the calm leader.

Wearing a mask can hide one's identity, motives, personality, etc. However, a mask can't make a person forget about what they learned along the way. I'm saying that, while he was second-in-command, he could have matured and learned about leadership and such. So even if he was faking who he truly was the entire time, that doesn't stop him from learning about maturity while watching the old leader.

While the new leader is the complete opposite of the old leader, I just shrug my shoulders to that because it doesn't really mean anything.

[tenup]

Well the main Xilien villian in this story obviously foiled the original invasion plan that was set by his predecessor. Although the original Xilien leader wanted to play a strategic game of chess against mankind, the younger Xilien thought it would be better off to play checkers. So he kills his leader to take power. Btw GXG, that isn't power earned if you asked me. He sort've just took it. Final Wars can be interesting if analyzed to an extent. The idea of this particular alien invasion seemed interesting because they didn't directly invade and attack us. They created a deception that almost worked until the model turned scientist discovered that the Xiliens are replacing japans main leaders. It almost seems cult like and the original plan was to attack us subliminally.

What I dont get is that the intention was that Xiliens use humans as cattle, but there is not one scene where a Xilien consumes a human? I dont get why Minia is in the film along with that old man and his grandson? Why are all the monsters under the control of the Xiliens if only 2 of them are actually space monsters? Why is there unnecessary martial arts with a Matrix twist just thrown in there? Why is the main Xilien character too kool for this film? My head floods with all these unanswerable questions each time I view FW, which isn't too often btw.

[DagarahX]

For the monsters being under the Xilien's control, the film stated that they all have M-Base, which are found within the mutants, any Xilien with a high level of power (Or possibly some kind of device depending on the subject) can control those who are of weaker mind with M-Base like a puppet. With that out of the way, my only assumption is that the Xiliens captured the monsters they used and altered their DNA to the point that they bared M-Base and could control them.

Within GFW, Earth had been plagued with monsters before. So its possible that the Xiliens pulled a Monster Zero move, went to Earth without permission, and did whatever they wanted to do to prepare themselves while mankind's back was turned. Its the only logical thing that I can think of.

Either that, or there's the small, fragile, and probably unlikely assumption that they just created the monsters themselves. Sadly GFW does not explore any of this, so even with a solid explanation, its still up in the air IMO

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Btw GXG, that isn't power earned if you asked me. He sort've just took it.

Earned it. Took it. Had it thrust upon him. Doesn't really matter. Either way, his desire for power and need to take over the world and what not does not match his childish antics and temper tantrums. Which was the entire point of bringing up how the leader seized power.

Final Wars can be interesting if analyzed to an extent. The idea of this particular alien invasion seemed interesting because they didn't directly invade and attack us. They created a deception that almost worked until the model turned scientist discovered that the Xiliens are replacing japans main leaders. It almost seems cult like and the original plan was to attack us subliminally.

IMO, the only films worth analyzing (and by that I mean "interpreting the film in relation to other works", not "film criticism") are either the good ones or the historical ones. GFW does not fall into either category.