Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

For discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released from 1980 up to 1998 (includes Gamera 3)
User avatar
Infinity
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:28 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby Infinity » Tue May 19, 2015 9:07 pm

so dead that they had to keep shooting him, and he moved.

one of the many times the films contradict the writing. i would not travel with you in the event of a zombie apocalypse, if that's your idea of "dead". kind of still relatively alive enough to shoot it some more...yea...


Don't know which deluxe edition of the movie you are watching, but it certainly not the one I'm seeing. When SMG is done with his onslaught, Goji is shown to be laying still, with a very dead look on his face. He is very much dead.

User avatar
EmperorGhidorah
G-Grasper
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:11 pm

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby EmperorGhidorah » Wed May 20, 2015 6:01 am

Infinity wrote:
so dead that they had to keep shooting him, and he moved.

one of the many times the films contradict the writing. i would not travel with you in the event of a zombie apocalypse, if that's your idea of "dead". kind of still relatively alive enough to shoot it some more...yea...


Don't know which deluxe edition of the movie you are watching, but it certainly not the one I'm seeing. When SMG is done with his onslaught, Goji is shown to be laying still, with a very dead look on his face. He is very much dead.


That "dead look" was likely due to some sort of paralysis. And again, Rodan was able to revive him. You cannot revive a dead body.
"IF YOU CAN'T WIN THE GAME, IF YOU CAN'T SOLVE THE PUZZLE,
YOU'RE JUST A LOSER."


"In the Name of God, impure souls of the living dead shall be banished to eternal damnation. Amen."

User avatar
KaijuFiend
Rainbowzilla
Posts: 1961
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:14 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby KaijuFiend » Wed May 20, 2015 9:03 am

This is my favorite MechaGodzilla, as I had a couple figures of him as a child. Always thought the design was cool, never got a duck bill vibe from it. Also, I think this MechaGodzilla paralyzed Godzilla and/or put him into a coma. Didn't quite kill him but did come very close.
Image

User avatar
Infinity
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:28 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby Infinity » Wed May 20, 2015 1:02 pm

That "dead look" was likely due to some sort of paralysis.


No, that dead look was because the plot called for Godzilla's death, even if it was temporary.

And again, Rodan was able to revive him. You cannot revive a dead body.


Frankenstein would like to have a word with you.... and so do GMK Godzilla, Kiryu, Biollante and Junior Godzilla...

regardless, Rodan's sacrificed his own life to give Godzilla a new one, which was something quite out of the ordinary. I noticed in Gamera as well after the Sendai Blast from the Legion pod Killed Gamera.

User avatar
EmperorGhidorah
G-Grasper
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:11 pm

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby EmperorGhidorah » Wed May 20, 2015 1:36 pm

Infinity wrote:No, that dead look was because the plot called for Godzilla's death, even if it was temporary.


...or his paralysis. That tends to happen to organisms that suffer brain damage. That blank expression could have easily been from some sort of paralysis.

And the plot called for Godzillla to be completely defeated and helpless, btw. He doesn't have to be dead to make that happen.

Frankenstein would like to have a word with you.... and so do GMK Godzilla, Kiryu, Biollante and Junior Godzilla...

regardless, Rodan's sacrificed his own life to give Godzilla a new one, which was something quite out of the ordinary. I noticed in Gamera as well after the Sendai Blast from the Legion pod Killed Gamera.


GMK Godzilla and Kiryu aren't really alive to begin with. As for Frankenstein, Biollante, Godzilla Jr. and Gamera...none of them ever died. The fact remains that you cannot bring someone back from the dead. You cannot revive a corpse, unless it's through some sort of magical bullshit. And far as I can tell, the Godzilla Heisei series is purely science fictional, completely devoided of supernatural elements.

Rodan revived Godzilla via radiation. Which would have been impossible had Godzilla actually died.
"IF YOU CAN'T WIN THE GAME, IF YOU CAN'T SOLVE THE PUZZLE,
YOU'RE JUST A LOSER."


"In the Name of God, impure souls of the living dead shall be banished to eternal damnation. Amen."

User avatar
Infinity
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:28 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby Infinity » Wed May 20, 2015 1:59 pm

...or his paralysis. That tends to happen to organisms that suffer brain damage. That blank expression could have easily been from some sort of paralysis.


if he was paralyzed, he should have been twitching a bit or making subtle movements, much like Showa King Ghidorah did before he died in DAM. I'm amazed you can't tell the difference between being dead and paralyzed EG.

And the plot called for Godzillla to be completely defeated and helpless, btw. He doesn't have to be dead to make that happen.


Did you know that in the previous copies of the plot, Godzilla literally explodes into pieces from all that hardcore firepower from SMG?

To make the movie more kid friendly, they changed it from exploding to just being dead and revived from Fire Rodan. So much for the "doesn't have to be dead to make that happen" shtick.

GMK Godzilla and Kiryu aren't really alive to begin with.


They aren't dead either.

As for Frankenstein, Biollante, Godzilla Jr. and Gamera...none of them ever died.


I was referring to classic Frankenstein from the German movies. My point was that a dead thing in science fiction can be brought back to life, specially in these kinds of movies. I'm also fairly sure that Godzilla Jr and Gamera were killed in their respective movies and had to be revived through a miracle.

I'll concede for Biollante though.

Godzilla Heisei series is purely science fictional, completely devoided of supernatural elements.


Mothra, Biollante, Battra and Fire Rodan did supernatural stuff dude.

Rodan revived Godzilla via radiation. Which would have been impossible had Godzilla actually died.


Rodan gave his life force to Godzilla by disintegrating himself, which is supernaturally impossible to happen, but since it did....

User avatar
EmperorGhidorah
G-Grasper
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:11 pm

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby EmperorGhidorah » Wed May 20, 2015 3:33 pm

Infinity wrote:if he was paralyzed, he should have been twitching a bit or making subtle movements, much like Showa King Ghidorah did before he died in DAM. I'm amazed you can't tell the difference between being dead and paralyzed EG.


Bro, you do realize there is something called instant paralysis. And Godzilla was doing quite a bit of squirming.

Did you know that in the previous copies of the plot, Godzilla literally explodes into pieces from all that hardcore firepower from SMG?

To make the movie more kid friendly, they changed it from exploding to just being dead and revived from Fire Rodan. So much for the "doesn't have to be dead to make that happen" shtick.


Or, y'know, they decided not to kill Godzilla at all. Toho has done this before.

They aren't dead either.


...ok. I'm not sure how that helps your case, though.


I was referring to classic Frankenstein from the German movies. My point was that a dead thing in science fiction can be brought back to life, specially in these kinds of movies. I'm also fairly sure that Godzilla Jr and Gamera were killed in their respective movies and had to be revived through a miracle.

I'll concede for Biollante though.


I'll recant my statement about Gamera. I can see Gamera being brought back from the dead. There does appear to be an ever so slightly supernatural element to the Gamera Trilogy.

But it's blatantly obvious, throughout the entire Heisei series, that radiation is what revives Godzilla.

Case in point:
- In Godzilla Returns: Godzilla is revived by that radiation cloud from the missile.

-In Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah: a godzillasaurus is mortally wounded. Exposure to radiation...transforms it into a 300ft tall, radioactive, super monster completely healed of all his wounds and strength rejuvenated.

-In Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla II, Godzilla's secondary brain had been torn apart and godzilla would have likely died. However, Fire Rodan melted down, and the ensuing radiation knitted the brain together in a matter of seconds.

-In Godzilla vs. Destroyah, we have a seemingly dead 45 meter tall, 15,000 toned Godzilla Junior. Then Burning Godzilla melted down, and in a matter of minutes, Godzilla Junior absorbed all the radiation, transforming into a 100 meter tall 60,000 ton kaiju.

So yes. Godzilla Jr. was revived by a miracle. But it was a miracle rooted completely in science fiction. He wasn't brought back from the dead. The radiation from his father's meltdown revived him from a coma-like state.


Mothra, Biollante, Battra and Fire Rodan did supernatural stuff dude.


Fire Rodan and Battra sure as hell didn't. Mothra never really did anything that couldn't be explained science fictionally. Biollante as well. Unless you take the whole "Biollante is made up of Godzilla cells, a rose, and a human soul" seriously.

Rodan gave his life force to Godzilla by disintegrating himself, which is supernaturally impossible to happen, but since it did....


No, rodan just melted down and the ensuing radiation revived Godzilla. As shown above, Godzilla has been brought back from near death situations via radiation before. Unless you think Burning Godzilla melting down is also supernaturally impossible...
"IF YOU CAN'T WIN THE GAME, IF YOU CAN'T SOLVE THE PUZZLE,
YOU'RE JUST A LOSER."


"In the Name of God, impure souls of the living dead shall be banished to eternal damnation. Amen."

User avatar
Kaiju-King42
Kwaidan
Posts: 5543
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: Monster Island

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Wed May 20, 2015 3:43 pm

Baby Godzilla's "song" isn't supernatural? The one that revived Rodan? And Rodan disintegrating into energy like that wasn't supernatural?

The cosmos, the fairy mothras, the sign/glyph that Mothra places over Battra's resting place, or even the telepathy of the cosmos and Mothra isn't supernatural at all? What about being "created by the earth to defend it", or the earth being "a living being"? Not supernatural?

Biollante's immortality, the telepathic/telekinetic people like Miki, NONE of that is supernatural?

Nah. The only Godzilla continuities that are strictly devoid of supernatural elements are G2K, Megaguirus, and (thus far) LPG. But for the most part Godzilla has always had one foot planted firmly in the realm of fantasy, dude.
Godzillian wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:What is up with the American trope of hide the monster?

Jaws happened


ernesth100 wrote:
Ryguy wrote:When the new director is announced, I guarantee this fanbase will be torn through the middle...

We're always split down the middle. TK is like a giant buttcrack.


Anno wrote:never forget tadpole :godzilla:




User avatar
Infinity
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:28 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby Infinity » Wed May 20, 2015 4:35 pm

^Awesome sarcasm KK.

and to EmperorGhidorah,

Dude, just stop. A debate has to have a point and there isn't much to have here. I mean, why so adamant on proving that Godzilla didn't die from SMG's onslaught? It doesn't discount SMG's firepower prowess and there is nothing to be ashamed of for Godzilla to be killed by such a devastating attack.

Kudos for making this entertaining though.

User avatar
EmperorGhidorah
G-Grasper
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:11 pm

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby EmperorGhidorah » Wed May 20, 2015 4:56 pm

Infinity wrote:Dude, just stop. A debate has to have a point and there isn't much to have here. I mean, why so adamant on proving that Godzilla didn't die from SMG's onslaught? It doesn't discount SMG's firepower prowess and there is nothing to be ashamed of for Godzilla to be killed by such a devastating attack.

Kudos for making this entertaining though.


WHOA :shock: just...tryin to have a discussion here. I'll tone it down for future discussions, if that is what you're asking.
"IF YOU CAN'T WIN THE GAME, IF YOU CAN'T SOLVE THE PUZZLE,
YOU'RE JUST A LOSER."


"In the Name of God, impure souls of the living dead shall be banished to eternal damnation. Amen."

User avatar
Mr. Xeno
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3451
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:33 pm

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby Mr. Xeno » Wed May 20, 2015 5:08 pm

Kaiju-King42 pretty much nailed it. The Godzilla movies are filled with at least illusions to pure fantasy, and that's not unreasonable given the subject matter.

Godzilla died at the hands of MechaGodzilla because his second brain was severed. Rodan sacrificed his life by "giving him his life force" (or some poop), which brought Godzilla back from the dead, in the same way that someone's heart can stop beating (henceforth making them technically dead) and yet still be brought back with defibrillators.

(Godzilla Jr. also clearly died in Destoroyah; I have no idea how you could interpret his fate as merely being put into a coma)
Castellan Zilla wrote:What? No dots on SHMA Mothra?! In the trash she goes.

User avatar
EmperorGhidorah
G-Grasper
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:11 pm

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby EmperorGhidorah » Wed May 20, 2015 5:15 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:Baby Godzilla's "song" isn't supernatural? The one that revived Rodan? And Rodan disintegrating into energy like that wasn't supernatural?

The cosmos, the fairy mothras, the sign/glyph that Mothra places over Battra's resting place, or even the telepathy of the cosmos and Mothra isn't supernatural at all? What about being "created by the earth to defend it", or the earth being "a living being"? Not supernatural?

Biollante's immortality, the telepathic/telekinetic people like Miki, NONE of that is supernatural?

Nah. The only Godzilla continuities that are strictly devoid of supernatural elements are G2K, Megaguirus, and (thus far) LPG. But for the most part Godzilla has always had one foot planted firmly in the realm of fantasy, dude.


None of the things you mentioned definitively support your belief. Things like Miki's telekinetic abilities can easily be within the realm of science fiction and NOT fantasyl
"IF YOU CAN'T WIN THE GAME, IF YOU CAN'T SOLVE THE PUZZLE,
YOU'RE JUST A LOSER."


"In the Name of God, impure souls of the living dead shall be banished to eternal damnation. Amen."

User avatar
The One and Only
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2993
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:58 pm
Location: Jamestown, PA

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby The One and Only » Wed May 20, 2015 5:31 pm

Mr. Xeno wrote:Kaiju-King42 pretty much nailed it. The Godzilla movies are filled with at least illusions to pure fantasy, and that's not unreasonable given the subject matter.

Godzilla died at the hands of MechaGodzilla because his second brain was severed. Rodan sacrificed his life by "giving him his life force" (or some poop), which brought Godzilla back from the dead, in the same way that someone's heart can stop beating (henceforth making them technically dead) and yet still be brought back with defibrillators.

(Godzilla Jr. also clearly died in Destoroyah; I have no idea how you could interpret his fate as merely being put into a coma)

Junior was messed up pretty badly by Destroyah, before being dropped on the building. But he seemed to respond to the radiation Godzilla transferred to him in one scene. He basically went into what I'd call a "standby mode" in order for the radiation to kick in his healing. He was out of the fight, but still alive.
"All literature is one of three stories: a man goes on a journey, a stranger comes to town, and Godzilla Vs. Megashark. "-Leo Tolstoy.

User avatar
Infinity
Yin-Yang Master
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:28 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby Infinity » Wed May 20, 2015 5:44 pm

WHOA :shock: just...tryin to have a discussion here. I'll tone it down for future discussions, if that is what you're asking.


No,no,no... The kudos I gave at the end was there to indicate that my I'm pretty much done with the discussion and thank you for the enjoyable debate. :D

User avatar
Mr. Xeno
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3451
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:33 pm

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby Mr. Xeno » Wed May 20, 2015 6:32 pm

EmperorGhidorah wrote:None of the things you mentioned definitively support your belief. Things like Miki's telekinetic abilities can easily be within the realm of science fiction and NOT fantasyl

Telekinetic abilities CAN be completely sci-fi with no fantasy, agree there, but how do you then explain the entirety of Mothra? Or, for as hokey as it is, Erica's soul possessing Biollante (her image amidst Biollante's spores at the end of the film pretty definitively proves that)?

The One and Only wrote:Junior was messed up pretty badly by Destroyah, before being dropped on the building. But he seemed to respond to the radiation Godzilla transferred to him in one scene. He basically went into what I'd call a "standby mode" in order for the radiation to kick in his healing. He was out of the fight, but still alive.

He probably reacted to it in the same way that a normal body would react to electricity; or it could be possible that Godzilla attempted to revive him and failed, but managed to make Junior move for just a brief moment due to the energy transference. I still say it's pretty obvious Junior died due to the implications and tone of the scenes. The mentioned moment where Godzilla transfers some of his energy to Junior - and is subsequently upset at it failing - would be completely pointless if Junior was merely in standby mode. The emotionality of the entire scene heavily implies that Junior died.
Castellan Zilla wrote:What? No dots on SHMA Mothra?! In the trash she goes.

User avatar
The One and Only
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2993
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:58 pm
Location: Jamestown, PA

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby The One and Only » Wed May 20, 2015 6:44 pm

I had figured Godzilla had done all he could for Junior at the moment. He was alive and healing. Godzilla was just now focusing his full attention on the one who inflicted the injuries on his son.
"All literature is one of three stories: a man goes on a journey, a stranger comes to town, and Godzilla Vs. Megashark. "-Leo Tolstoy.

User avatar
Mr. Xeno
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3451
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:33 pm

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby Mr. Xeno » Wed May 20, 2015 7:06 pm

The One and Only wrote:I had figured Godzilla had done all he could for Junior at the moment. He was alive and healing. Godzilla was just now focusing his full attention on the one who inflicted the injuries on his son.

I do see where you're coming from, but I don't think the filmmakers would be stupid enough to have such a large, emotional scene - including Godzilla visibly crying out in pain - over Junior simply being temporarily incapacitated.
Castellan Zilla wrote:What? No dots on SHMA Mothra?! In the trash she goes.

User avatar
three
Keizer
Posts: 9485
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:26 am
Location: Hueco Mundo

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby three » Wed May 20, 2015 8:45 pm

Infinity wrote:
so dead that they had to keep shooting him, and he moved.

one of the many times the films contradict the writing. i would not travel with you in the event of a zombie apocalypse, if that's your idea of "dead". kind of still relatively alive enough to shoot it some more...yea...


Don't know which deluxe edition of the movie you are watching, but it certainly not the one I'm seeing. When SMG is done with his onslaught, Goji is shown to be laying still, with a very dead look on his face. He is very much dead.


well now were getting to the heart of the problem.

define a "dead look". people die here and there and are reported later screaming from their coffins; my point is it's a matter of perspective, and mine is that the big guy didn't die. the fact is kind of supported in that they blasted apart a brain in his lower back, which is kinda in league with that whole Stegosaurus-second-brain-to-walk theory that was discounted long ago, and then fired upon him after.

so was he dead? what we're all seeing says no to me. ill leave it at that.
:pokeball: :cookie: :mechagodzilla: "I'm on a drug called Charlie Sheen" ~ Charlie Sheen

Gojira is:Very Hiroshima®

axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!


Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - skreeonk in space.

User avatar
g2vd
Kwaidan
Posts: 6917
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:36 am

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby g2vd » Thu May 21, 2015 7:26 am

Mr. Xeno wrote:
The One and Only wrote:I had figured Godzilla had done all he could for Junior at the moment. He was alive and healing. Godzilla was just now focusing his full attention on the one who inflicted the injuries on his son.

I do see where you're coming from, but I don't think the filmmakers would be stupid enough to have such a large, emotional scene - including Godzilla visibly crying out in pain - over Junior simply being temporarily incapacitated.

TK Bio.
http://www.tohokingdom.com/kaiju/godzilla_junior.htm#jr
Destoroyah dropped the infant Godzilla, sending the young monster plummeting to the ground, several thousand feet below. The sudden attack managed to, sadly, kill the child monster. Although the creature would not stay dead for long...

After Godzilla reached meltdown, his energy was expelled from his body. As Rodan had done for him two years ago, Godzilla sent what energy he had left to revive his deceased son. The energy coursed through the small monster, breathing life back into it as Junior mutated into a full-grown Godzilla. The rebirth of Godzilla was ensured for a future generation.

Indeed, Jr was killed and brought back by the radiation which resulted from Burning Godzilla's meltdown. and I don't really see Fire Rodan's sacrifice as supernatural nor the radiation from BG, FR self destructed to give Godzilla the radiation/energy he needed to regenerate his second brain and supercharge him and Junior died from Destroyah, but was brought back to life from BG's meltdown nothing supernatural like Mothra it's just in the G series's universe radiation can bring back radioactive Kaiju and also nowhere in the TK bio does it say Heisei Godzilla was killed and I think a better idea to discuss it would be here Did MG2 kill RadoGoji?.
Godzilla

User avatar
KingKaiju
Futurian
Posts: 1834
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:31 pm

Re: Monster Discussion #49: MechaGodzilla (Heisei)

Postby KingKaiju » Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:01 am

Rewatching this movie, I think I've come to the conclusion that I don't really like this MechaGodzilla suit. Well, I do, but it's my least favorite. The dinky tail, the dope look, I don't know. To me it's like a weird combination of a gundam/japanese superhero robot and Godzilla. I think I prefer the evil alien, A.I., type MechaGodzilla as opposed to this.
Image


Return to “Heisei Series (1980's-1998)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests