Monster Discussion #47: Battra

[Beef Bigshot]

Impaled your brain? You would be dead so no imagination or seeing.

[three]

just the eyes beef.

[Beef Bigshot]

Ha ha, just messin, but seriously let's try to get a little more on topic. We are headed to a long and dark road right now

[three]

alright, minus the additional spikes everything i said earlier still goes.

[Arbok]

I wouldn't mind seeing Battra return someday. In terms of story, think there are more possibilities there compared to Megaguirus, for example, that weren't really used to their full potential in the 1992 flick.

[three]

like i said he'd make for a cool little entry to the series. i have trouble visualising him as a stand alone monster though, like he'd need another bad guy or enemy to join in.

[KaijuDuke]

There was a time I considered Battra to be Mothra done right, but I've come to realize that while his concept was neat, it was poorly executed.

His larval form is bigger and stronger than his smaller, weaker adult form. He literally goes from being strong enough to match Godzilla blow for blow & beat up Mothra with ease to being no match for Godzilla at all & requiring Mothra's aid. He's also kinda unbalanced even as simply a rival for Mothra. His larval form possesses eye and horn lasers while Mothra only has a web shooter, and his adult form only has eye beams whereas Mothra had antennae beams, wing lightning, and reflective scales. I like Battra and all, but I consider him to be a memorable, yet played out experiment not really worth revisiting in future films. He had his time in the spotlight, but now its done.

I mean, yes, you could fix his inconsistencies and make his larval form smaller and weaker and scale up and power up his adult form, but considering the fact he's just a darker counterpart to Mothra, the Godzilla universe really doesn't need two giant moth gods floating around. You could bring him back to menace Mothra in a movie of her own, but otherwise I think it would be harder to bring him back for a Godzilla film, since his connection to Mothra almost guarantees she'd need to play a major role in any "Godzilla Vs Battra" film Toho could cook up (and I wouldn't want events to play out exactly as they did in "Battle for the Earth" again). Like, imagine how weird it would be if they had Mecha Godzilla or Space Godzilla face Mothra but Godzilla himself was not in the film. I'd rather see Rodan become a rival for Mothra instead of Battra or Gigan.

P.S. if Battra ever did come back, it would probably make more sense to make him into fallen angel of sorts, a mothra gone bad or turned dark due to its hatred of humanity & its crimes against nature, perhaps a twin sister to Mothra instead of a one shot creature...And again, while that would make his origin simpler and strengthen his connection to Mothra and even give it the ability to be reborn in the same fashion, it would still basically be a more malevolent and aggressive version of Mothra herself.

[three]

why not just pure evil and alone?

[ZeppandonConfirmed]

Battra is my favorite Kaiju besides Godzilla and Rodan.

I personally really enjoy the "Battle Mothra" idea he has and I hope they do it again (and, quite frankly, better) in a future film. I also think he's one of the best designed Kaiju in the Heisei series and easily my favorite from said era. He's basically an evil, mutated insect and that makes him so cool. So yeah, I love Battra.

[godjacob]

The idea of a "Dark Mothra" who acts in the greater interest of the Earth but is against humanity is the perfect foil to Mothra and adds a ton to the mythos. His designs are pretty cool and was the best part of the film.

But I am curious, has there ever been an attempt to explain why he becomes so much weaker when he becomes his moth form? As a Larva it went toe to toe with Godzilla in the ocean and fought to a draw. But as a presumed "stronger" moth it got its ass kicked and needed Mothra's help against Godzilla. Just felt like a jarring downgrade.

[Spuro]

The idea of a "Dark Mothra" who acts in the greater interest of the Earth but is against humanity is the perfect foil to Mothra and adds a ton to the mythos. His designs are pretty cool and was the best part of the film.

But I am curious, has there ever been an attempt to explain why he becomes so much weaker when he becomes his moth form? As a Larva it went toe to toe with Godzilla in the ocean and fought to a draw. But as a presumed "stronger" moth it got its ass kicked and needed Mothra's help against Godzilla. Just felt like a jarring downgrade.

The answer lies in the designs. The larva is enormous and covered in a layer of heavy armor. The imago is smaller and its exoskeleton thinner (and presumably more lightweight to allow flight).

[godjacob]

The idea of a "Dark Mothra" who acts in the greater interest of the Earth but is against humanity is the perfect foil to Mothra and adds a ton to the mythos. His designs are pretty cool and was the best part of the film.

But I am curious, has there ever been an attempt to explain why he becomes so much weaker when he becomes his moth form? As a Larva it went toe to toe with Godzilla in the ocean and fought to a draw. But as a presumed "stronger" moth it got its ass kicked and needed Mothra's help against Godzilla. Just felt like a jarring downgrade.

The answer lies in the designs. The larva is enormous and covered in a layer of heavy armor. The imago is smaller and its exoskeleton thinner (and presumably more lightweight to allow flight).

I see, I can buy that. But still...why transform then? Unlike Mothra who needs a cocoon & time to evolve Battra seems to be able to do it instantly & at will, the benefit of flight cannot out weight the drawbacks of being generally less effective in combat so I don't get why he'd transform.

[edgaguirus]

It probably has to do with his connection to Mothra. They are good and evil twins, so since Mothra transforms, so must Battra. Still, Toho could have designed a better flying form with more power to match the larval form.

If Battra does come back, I could see a story where Battra is a forgotten and rejected defender of Earth, so when Battra is uncovered by man, Battra wants revenge against Mothra.

[LSD Jellyfish]

The idea of a "Dark Mothra" who acts in the greater interest of the Earth but is against humanity is the perfect foil to Mothra and adds a ton to the mythos. His designs are pretty cool and was the best part of the film.

But I am curious, has there ever been an attempt to explain why he becomes so much weaker when he becomes his moth form? As a Larva it went toe to toe with Godzilla in the ocean and fought to a draw. But as a presumed "stronger" moth it got its ass kicked and needed Mothra's help against Godzilla. Just felt like a jarring downgrade.

The answer lies in the designs. The larva is enormous and covered in a layer of heavy armor. The imago is smaller and its exoskeleton thinner (and presumably more lightweight to allow flight).

Series where logic isn’t that important. They could have had an armored/more scary looking adult form and it wouldn’t have been an issue.

I think it’s just because of how they awkwardly wanted Godzilla to be the antagonist of the film.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

I always bullshitted headcanoned it had to do with the whole ying yang thing he and Mothra had.

Mothra has a drab larva and a colorful image? Battra gets a more vivid larva than imago.

Mothra has only a few abilities. Battra gets all the abilities, oh boy.

Mothra has a weak larva but a decently strong imago?
Battra larva can kick Godzilla's ass but the adult gets curbstomped like a bitch.

"Reasonably stable, like everything else gotta be"
- Grimace

[godjacob]

The idea of a "Dark Mothra" who acts in the greater interest of the Earth but is against humanity is the perfect foil to Mothra and adds a ton to the mythos. His designs are pretty cool and was the best part of the film.

But I am curious, has there ever been an attempt to explain why he becomes so much weaker when he becomes his moth form? As a Larva it went toe to toe with Godzilla in the ocean and fought to a draw. But as a presumed "stronger" moth it got its ass kicked and needed Mothra's help against Godzilla. Just felt like a jarring downgrade.

The answer lies in the designs. The larva is enormous and covered in a layer of heavy armor. The imago is smaller and its exoskeleton thinner (and presumably more lightweight to allow flight).

Series where logic isn’t that important. They could have had an armored/more scary looking adult form and it wouldn’t have been an issue.

I think it’s just because of how they awkwardly wanted Godzilla to be the antagonist of the film.

This is what happens when you originally write a Mothra movie but then have to crowbar Godzilla into the plot. I actually like his role as the chaotic wildcard to things but Battra's sudden downgrade in the final fight never made a lick of sense to me.

[JAGzilla]

Well... if you think about it, Mothra's adult form is usually a downgrade from the larval form, too. She may have increased mobility, wind, and slightly more melee proficiency (plus lasers in the Heisei incarnation), but it's the larva, a smaller target with a surprisingly devastating silk spray attack, that has beaten Godzilla twice, while no adult form ever has without help. Leo and KOTM are the only incarnations that legitimately improve in combat effectiveness as adults.

[godjacob]

Well... if you think about it, Mothra's adult form is usually a downgrade from the larval form, too. She may have increased mobility, wind, and slightly more melee proficiency (plus lasers in the Heisei incarnation), but it's the larva, a smaller target with a surprisingly devastating silk spray attack, that has beaten Godzilla twice, while no adult form ever has without help. Leo and KOTM are the only incarnations that legitimately improve in combat effectiveness as adults.

Showa Mothra I can agree with. Larva seems straight up better as a pair of newborns beat Godzilla and the adult form loses the silk and gains...a pollen attack that does more harm to the user than the opponent.

Heisei however I disagree. Mothra's silk in that is shown to be an annoyance more than any hindrance. And the lasers/lightning wings does make her more effective against Godzilla in the fight.

Millennium is mixed. They got the win thanks in large part to Kiryu softening Godzilla, but the silk is still the most effective attack Mothra has in either form.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

Well... if you think about it, Mothra's adult form is usually a downgrade from the larval form, too. She may have increased mobility, wind, and slightly more melee proficiency (plus lasers in the Heisei incarnation), but it's the larva, a smaller target with a surprisingly devastating silk spray attack, that has beaten Godzilla twice, while no adult form ever has without help. Leo and KOTM are the only incarnations that legitimately improve in combat effectiveness as adults.

Showa Mothra I can agree with. Larva seems straight up better as a pair of newborns beat Godzilla and the adult form loses the silk and gains...a pollen attack that does more harm to the user than the opponent.

Heisei however I disagree. Mothra's silk in that is shown to be an annoyance more than any hindrance. And the lasers/lightning wings does make her more effective against Godzilla in the fight.

Millennium is mixed. They got the win thanks in large part to Kiryu softening Godzilla, but the silk is still the most effective attack Mothra has in either form.

This is why Legendary Mothra might actually be my favorite incarnation of the character. She retains her deadly silk attack in Imago form and has some claws and a nasty stinger to boot.

[Terasawa]

Godzilla’s ray is devastating against opponents in flight and Battra is no different. He may not be weaker than his larval form but he lost the advantage of being able to literally hold his ground against the sheer force of the ray. He was also very vulnerable while carrying Godzilla to sea. It makes perfect sense to me.