What happened to Mothra, Battra, Destroyah, and SpaceGodzilla in the old timeline?

[darthzilla99]

Heres some discussion I thought of. I know this is fan speculation, but I wonder what happened to the above kaiju with no time traveling and Godzilla never appearing again until much later. We know that they mentioned Nuclear Weapons got banned.

[Shoopwoop17]

Mothra and Battra would still be awoken by the first meteor. Battra would probably still try to destroy the second meteor, and maybe destroy a few cities before leaving. Depending on whether or not he and Godzilla fight could determine if Spacegodzilla exists or not.

[Zarm]

Mothra and Battra would still be awoken by the first meteor. Battra would probably still try to destroy the second meteor, and maybe destroy a few cities before leaving. Depending on whether or not he and Godzilla fight could determine if Spacegodzilla exists or not.

But Battra might also manage to kill Mothra as a grub, so potentially no more Mothra.

[Arbok]

In the timeline where there was only one Godzilla, SpaceGodzilla wouldn't have existed. Regardless of the theory you subscribe to, there would be no Biollante or no Mothra carrying Godzilla genes to have created it.

Before the Futurians time traveled, the likely things we know will or would happen (and I'm spit balling, but I believe the later Heisei movies largely take place in the following year after their release):

- Super-X was created by 1984 meaning Japan was already on the super weapon path
- Mothra and Battra appear in 1993
- Rodan appears in 1994
- Destoroyah appears in 1996
- Japan becomes the largest super power in the distant future and nuclear weapons are banned

You could devise any number of fan theories to explain this timeline. Just off the top of my head:

- Mothra and Battra appear, Battra defeats SDF opposition (bye bye Super-X) and kills Mothra
- Battra eventually flies off to destroy meteor
- Japan ramps up its SDF in response to the Battra attack
- SDF is unknowingly ready when Rodan appears and likely defeats him
- SDF continues to ramp up and when Destoroyah appears they likely eventually discover its weakness to cold and kill it
- Japan, feeling emboldened by the appearance of Destoroyah who was the result of battling the nuclear born Godzilla, manages to push through a nuke ban

There we go... although could be any number of scenarios where this or something like it happens, but it's really helped by the fact that Destoroyah had an exploitable weakness. SpaceGodzilla, had he been possible in this timeline, would have been a much bigger threat if you take Godzilla and the mechs that resulted from Mecha-King Ghidorah out of the mix.

[miguelnuva]

In the timeline where there was only one Godzilla, SpaceGodzilla wouldn't have existed. Regardless of the theory you subscribe to, there would be no Biollante or no Mothra carrying Godzilla genes to have created it.

Before the Futurians time traveled, the likely things we know will or would happen (and I'm spit balling, but I believe the later Heisei movies largely take place in the following year after their release):

- Super-X was created by 1984 meaning Japan was already on the super weapon path
- Mothra and Battra appear in 1993
- Rodan appears in 1994
- Destoroyah appears in 1996
- Japan becomes the largest super power in the distant future and nuclear weapons are banned

You could devise any number of fan theories to explain this timeline. Just off the top of my head:

- Mothra and Battra appear, Battra defeats SDF opposition (bye bye Super-X) and kills Mothra
- Battra eventually flies off to destroy meteor
- Japan ramps up its SDF in response to the Battra attack
- SDF is unknowingly ready when Rodan appears and likely defeats him
- SDF continues to ramp up and when Destoroyah appears they likely eventually discover its weakness to cold and kill it
- Japan, feeling emboldened by the appearance of Destoroyah who was the result of battling the nuclear born Godzilla, manages to push through a nuke ban

There we go... although could be any number of scenarios where this or something like it happens, but it's really helped by the fact that Destoroyah had an exploitable weakness. SpaceGodzilla, had he been possible in this timeline, would have been a much bigger threat if you take Godzilla and the mechs that resulted from Mecha-King Ghidorah out of the mix.

Arbok Heisei Godzilla exits in both timelines. He never recovers in the original timeline from the ANEB. Based on what were told in Godzilla vs King Ghidorah Japan figured out a way to deal with the other Heisei monsters so maybe, Rodan, Mothra, Battra and Godzilla jr all band together to defeat SpaceGodzilla and then Destroyer is dealt with as well. May Biollante reappears?

[Pkmatrix]

In the timeline where there was only one Godzilla, SpaceGodzilla wouldn't have existed. Regardless of the theory you subscribe to, there would be no Biollante or no Mothra carrying Godzilla genes to have created it.

Before the Futurians time traveled, the likely things we know will or would happen (and I'm spit balling, but I believe the later Heisei movies largely take place in the following year after their release):

- Super-X was created by 1984 meaning Japan was already on the super weapon path
- Mothra and Battra appear in 1993
- Rodan appears in 1994
- Destoroyah appears in 1996
- Japan becomes the largest super power in the distant future and nuclear weapons are banned

You could devise any number of fan theories to explain this timeline. Just off the top of my head:

- Mothra and Battra appear, Battra defeats SDF opposition (bye bye Super-X) and kills Mothra
- Battra eventually flies off to destroy meteor
- Japan ramps up its SDF in response to the Battra attack
- SDF is unknowingly ready when Rodan appears and likely defeats him
- SDF continues to ramp up and when Destoroyah appears they likely eventually discover its weakness to cold and kill it
- Japan, feeling emboldened by the appearance of Destoroyah who was the result of battling the nuclear born Godzilla, manages to push through a nuke ban

There we go... although could be any number of scenarios where this or something like it happens, but it's really helped by the fact that Destoroyah had an exploitable weakness. SpaceGodzilla, had he been possible in this timeline, would have been a much bigger threat if you take Godzilla and the mechs that resulted from Mecha-King Ghidorah out of the mix.

Arbok Heisei Godzilla exits in both timelines. He never recovers in the original timeline from the ANEB. Based on what were told in Godzilla vs King Ghidorah Japan figured out a way to deal with the other Heisei monsters so maybe, Rodan, Mothra, Battra and Godzilla jr all band together to defeat SpaceGodzilla and then Destroyer is dealt with as well. May Biollante reappears?

No, no, I get what he means: if there's no time travel, there's no Heisei Godzilla AT ALL. Just the '54 Godzilla, who dies in '54. The timeline Arbok describes is the one that would've happened had the Futurians never interfered.

This timeline is hypothetical, though, since there's really only one timeline in the Versus films. The events of GvKG are a stable time loop: the Futurians must go back in time to mistakenly cause Godzilla's creation so that Godzilla will exist for them to go back and try to prevent his creation. The later movies, particularly Destroyah, make it kinda obvious that the reason Godzilla isn't a problem for them in the future is because he dies in 1996 not because the ANEB (which is just sorta forgotten as a plot point).

[eabaker]

The "stable time loop" explanation isn't sufficiently supported by the movie to be taken as read. If anything, the narrative and thematic intent of the movie appears to be that Godzilla's birth is historically inevitable; nothing the Futurians do can erase him, only alter the circumstances of his creation.

[Zarm]

That is the thematic intent, certainly. I think the discussion here is based more on the in-universe temporal mechanics.

However, this may also be an accurate reading of the in-universe temporal mechanics. Lagos Island seems to be in close enough proximity to Bikini Atoll that radiation exposure from there was a plausible explanation for Godzilla's origins. (Unless they just assumed the Godzillasaurus recovered from his wounds and took a long-distance swim to end up at the Atoll). So, in theory, his birth may have indeed been inevitable in-universe; it either would've happened on Lagos, or from the nuclear sub accident.



Okay, so, I’ve tried this before, and standing on the shoulders of giants, but…

Timeline A (a.k.a. ‘the original run-through’, before time travel was invented):
-The first Godzilla comes in 1954.
-The second Godzilla is mutated from a Godzillasaurus by an A-bomb test on Bikini Atoll, proximate to Lagos Island.
-Return of Godzilla and Godzilla vs. Biollante happen. Biollante leaves for space. Godzilla is permanently halted by the ANEB.
-There is no King Ghidorah, MechaGodzilla, or Moguera.
-Battra quite possibly kills Mothra immediately upon hatching, does some damage to Earth, then goes to stop the meteor.
-Rodan becomes Fire Rodan, adopts Baby Godzilla.
-SpaceGodzilla either never shows up (most likely, which I hate, because that would mean Mothra is the true originator, a theory I never ascribed to but am forced into here), or else is stopped by the combination of Fire Rodan, Little Godzilla, possibly a barely-survived Mothra, possibly a returned Biollante or Battra, and the Super-XIII. More likely, he just doesn’t exist.
-Destroyah is not unleashed; plausibly, without the advances in technology from reverse-engineered tech, the underwater mining/tunneling projects that awoke/freed the microscopic forms didn’t happen, or didn’t happen until later when future-tech could handle the problem.
-The world’s kaiju are Fire Rodan, Junior, and possibly Mothra (if Battra didn’t kill her) or Battra (if he returns any time soon).
-Japan becomes an economic superpower, and a group of renegades calling themselves the Futurians travel back to 1992, creating Timeline B.


Timeline B ('The Placeholder', nearly identical to timeline A):
-The first Godzilla comes in 1954.
-The second Godzilla is mutated from a Godzillasaurus by an A-bomb test on Bikini Atoll, proximate to Lagos Island.
-Return of Godzilla and Godzilla vs. Biollante happen largely the same. Biollante leaves for space. Godzilla is permanently halted by the ANEB.
-Futurians arrive in 1992. Theoretically, however, their mere presence in the present alters little. At this point, the future still consists of no King Ghidorah, MechaGodzilla, or Moguera. Battra maybe kills Mothra; no SpaceGodzilla or Destroyah. Fire Rodan adopts Baby. Japan becomes an economic powerhouse. However, the Futurians quickly set out for Lagos Island, where they create timeline C.


Timeline C (the first-half-of-the-film timeline):
-The first Godzilla comes in 1954.
-The Godzillasaurus is teleported to the Bering Sea, where he is mutated by a nuclear submarine accident, becoming the second Godzilla.
-Dorats are mutated into King Ghidorah, who, apparently, lays low for 50 years or so (maybe in the irradiated region of Lagos Island) until the Futurians summon him. (This is a bit weird, but we have to roll with it).
-Return of Godzilla and Godzilla vs. Biollante happen. Biollante leaves for space. Godzilla is halted by ANEB.
-Futurians arrive in 1992. The nuclear submarine sent to ‘create’ Godzilla (under mistaken assumptions) overcomes the ANEB and further mutates Godzilla.
-Godzilla defeats King Ghidorah, decapitating the middle head, then goes on to devastate Japan.
-There is no MechaGodzilla, or Moguera.
-Godzilla vs. Mothra: Battle for Earth happens pretty much the same (except for Japan being in a much worse state of devastation). Mothra leaves for space.
-Rodan becomes Fire Rodan. His fate is unknown; he may die repeatedly battling over Little Godzilla, or he may settle into an eventual truce and become an ally. Or, he may adopt Baby Godzilla as, without Miki present from the nonexistent MechaGodzilla project, Godzilla comes in response to the Baby’s cries, but leaves estranged.
-SpaceGodzilla arrives. Considering there is still an intact future for humanity, the combination of Godzilla, Fire Rodan, Little Godzilla, possibly a returned Biollante, and the Super-XIII is enough to stop him.
-Either Destroyah is not unleashed as in timeline A (plausible; with the devastation too Japan, the country has rebuilding to do, rather than the luxury of underwater mining projects), or else the survivors of the SpaceGodzilla battle are enough to defeat him, too. (The former option seems more plausible).
-One would assume that a devastated Japan can’t field the necessary tech (and/or the Super-XIII is less advanced without the reverse-engineered future tech) and Godzilla melts down and kills the world. However, since this doesn’t happen, either altered circumstances have him miss the island explosion, or something to do with humanity’s advanced tech *caused* the island explosion and doesn’t happen here, so that Godzilla doesn’t meltdown. Or else humanity had sufficiently advanced tech despite Japan’s devastation and lack of future tech to stop the meltdown as per the film. Hard to say how this works, as there are many unanswered questions.
-The world’s kaiju are possibly Fire Rodan, possibly Godzilla, Junior, and Mothra (once she returns).
-Japan spends years rebuilding- possibly gets beaten down again and again if Godzilla didn’t die. The future is pretty bleak, presumably. Emi arrives in this future, a stranger out of time, but is apparently able to convince the people of the time to take her on a minisub tour of King Ghidorah’s body and build Mecha-King Ghidorah- quite possibly because their timeline of devastation has been so bad that they are willing to risk altering their past in hopes of something better. That they haven’t tried already may indicate that they lack time-travel capacity before Emi arrives with time travel tech from the erased Timeline A, and that the tech used for Mecha-King Ghidorah is less advanced (humanity held back by the continual rebuilding efforts) than the tech of timeline A (hence explaining why M11’s brain is a good processor; it’s more advanced than anything they have natively in the future of timeline B.) Quite possibly, only the fusion of Emi’s tech from Timeline A (M11 and time travel) and the industry/tech of Timeline B, allowed Mecha-King Ghidorah to exist; neither could have completed it without the other. Emi returns to 1992, creating timeline D…


Timeline D (the final Heisei timeline):
-The first Godzilla comes in 1954.
-The Godzillasaurus is teleported to the Bering Sea, where he is mutated by a nuclear submarine accident, becoming the second Godzilla.
-Dorats are mutated into King Ghidorah, who, apparently, lays low for 50 years or so (maybe in the irradiated region of Lagos Island) until the Futurians summon him. (Still strange).
-Return of Godzilla and Godzilla vs. Biollante happen. Biollante leaves for space. Godzilla is halted by ANEB.
-Futurians arrive in 1992. The nuclear submarine sent to ‘create’ Godzilla (under mistaken assumptions) overcomes the ANEB and further mutates Godzilla.
-Godzilla defeats King ghidorah, decapitating the middle head, but is then defeated by Mecha-King Ghidorah. Emi and M11 head into a brand new future…
-Humans reverse engineer future tech, giving humanity a huge technological boost.
-Godzilla vs. Mothra: Battle for Earth, Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla II, Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla, and Godzilla vs. Destroyah happen just as we saw them.
-The world’s kaiju are the hopefully-benevolent Junior, and Mothra (once she returns). Super-XIII is still in service, and Biollante’s out there, somewhere.
-Humanity, with a huge technical boost, advances much more rapidly. The year 2204 of timeline C was less advanced than Emi was used to; the future of timeline D she returns to now is far more advanced (having gotten a strong head-start in the 1990s); her tech will be the outdated stuff here. With any luck, this is a utopic future where they’ve moved past the problems that prompted the creation of the Futurians. She is a stranger here, but along with M11, will have to make a new life for herself in this very different age.

[miguelnuva]

In l ?

No, no, I get what he means: if there's no time travel, there's no Heisei Godzilla AT ALL. Just the '54 Godzilla, who dies in '54. The timeline Arbok describes is the one that would've happened had the Futurians never interfered.

This timeline is hypothetical, though, since there's really only one timeline in the Versus films. The events of GvKG are a stable time loop: the Futurians must go back in time to mistakenly cause Godzilla's creation so that Godzilla will exist for them to go back and try to prevent his creation. The later movies, particularly Destroyah, make it kinda obvious that the reason Godzilla isn't a problem for them in the future is because he dies in 1996 not because the ANEB (which is just sorta forgotten as a plot point).

This could be just in the dub but EMI says in her timeline that Godzilla never recovers from the Aneb and that futurians tried to ease him and create King Ghidorah in case Japan wanted to use him but the birth of Godzilla was destined to happen.

It in a way makes since that events of the heisei series as we saw them are always meant to happen as Jr would not attack Japan and would fit the role of needing to be removed for King Ghidorah to attack. But as said Emi states that Godzilla never recovers from the ANEB and never attacks Japan again.

[G2000]

No, no, I get what he means: if there's no time travel, there's no Heisei Godzilla AT ALL. Just the '54 Godzilla, who dies in '54. The timeline Arbok describes is the one that would've happened had the Futurians never interfered.

This timeline is hypothetical, though, since there's really only one timeline in the Versus films. The events of GvKG are a stable time loop: the Futurians must go back in time to mistakenly cause Godzilla's creation so that Godzilla will exist for them to go back and try to prevent his creation. The later movies, particularly Destroyah, make it kinda obvious that the reason Godzilla isn't a problem for them in the future is because he dies in 1996 not because the ANEB (which is just sorta forgotten as a plot point).

The "stable time loop" explanation isn't sufficiently supported by the movie to be taken as read. If anything, the narrative and thematic intent of the movie appears to be that Godzilla's birth is historically inevitable; nothing the Futurians do can erase him, only alter the circumstances of his creation.

I have to agree with eabaker here, Heisei Godzilla still shows up regardless of if the Futurians meddle or not. If he is left on Lagos, he is mutated by US nuclear testing; if he is moved by the Futurians to the Bering Strait, he gets mutated by the Soviet submarine accident in the 1970s.

[Ivo-goji]

The whole idea behind King Ghidorah's creation here is that it's connected to how Godzilla was *originally* born. The stable time loop explanation makes it a thematically meaningless decision, and ruins several other points the film is trying to make.

[szmigiel]

The whole stable time loop theory doesn't even hold up if you pay attention to the conversation in the sub from 2204. They talk about how the nation of Japan was destroy, inferred to be by Godzilla even though they don't say it directly. Japan is no longer the world's sole unstoppable supreme power. Even before that, when Emi visits Terasawa after he learns his book will be published after all, she mentions that Godzilla didn't return till the 23rd century. So from the sound of things Japan is Kaiju free for 200 years.

For bullshit explanations the time travel actually effected spacetime and caused the asteroid that hit at the start of Godzilla Vs Mothra, and the one that was going to hit in 1999 to shift orbit and head to Earth. So no time travel no Asteroids for Mothra or Battra to wake up for. Space Godzilla's creation was somehow also a side effect of time travel and wasn't created. Lastly Japan didn't try digging a tunnel under Tokyo bay and never disturbed the Precambrian crustaceans and they never appear as Destoroyah.

[miguelnuva]

The whole stable time loop theory doesn't even hold up if you pay attention to the conversation in the sub from 2204. They talk about how the nation of Japan was destroy, inferred to be by Godzilla even though they don't say it directly. Japan is no longer the world's sole unstoppable supreme power. Even before that, when Emi visits Terasawa after he learns his book will be published after all, she mentions that Godzilla didn't return till the 23rd century. So from the sound of things Japan is Kaiju free for 200 years.

For bullshit explanations the time travel actually effected spacetime and caused the asteroid that hit at the start of Godzilla Vs Mothra, and the one that was going to hit in 1999 to shift orbit and head to Earth. So no time travel no Asteroids for Mothra or Battra to wake up for. Space Godzilla's creation was somehow also a side effect of time travel and wasn't created. Lastly Japan didn't try digging a tunnel under Tokyo bay and never disturbed the Precambrian crustaceans and they never appear as Destoroyah.

Unless this is in the sub Emi says Godzilla never returns in the original timeline. In the timeline Emi returns to to get King Ghidorah is after Godzilla is supercharged and thus can destroy Japan.

Timeline 1: Godzilla never recovers from the ANEB and Japan becomes a superpower.

Timeline 2: Godzilla is supercharged, no Mecha King Ghidorah he destroys Japan.

Timeline 3: Regular Heisei series events.

The way I see it everything after Mothra and Battra happened solely because Godzilla attracted it. With no Godzilla and no MKG there was no MechaGodzilla, Rodan and Baby were either left alone or Rodan recovered baby and they live in peace. SpaceG didn't come to Earth because there was no Godzilla to kill. Destroyah either never shows up or is put down as the Super X III and the freezer weapons kill him. Rodan and Baby could even die here.