Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

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miguelnuva
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Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby miguelnuva » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:06 pm

I know Super Godzilla is a game but the one feat they have is that both Godzilla's fought Mecha King Ghidorah.

Godzilla Heisei was eventually too much for Mecha King Ghidorah and Burning Godzilla is far stronger than he is.

Godzilla super on the other hand can defeat MKg either in his normal form or by going into Super Godzilla.
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby GojiDude95 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:47 pm

I'd say Burning.
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby Ivo-goji » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:52 pm

No, we can't really gauge it.
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby GigaBowserG » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:51 pm

There was something I attempted a long time ago to try and compare the two - gauging Super Godzilla's strength using the in-game damage calculations, and comparing them to the official beam temperature stats. Movie Godzilla's atomic ray is said to be 500,000°C. Assuming SG's Godzilla is on par with the Heisei Godzilla from 1993 (as that was when the game was released), game Godzilla gains a 1.167%~ power boost about halfway through the story; it increases his HP, but is also said to up his overall power as well. So is it safe to assume his breath temperature would rise from 500,000°C to about 600,000°C (rounded)?

Then you could compare game Godzilla's ray using his max damage output against MKG, who we can only assume is on-par with the one from its movie: 70 for his "Fire Breath Attack", 80 for his "Hyper Fire Breath Attack", the latter being the equivalent to movie Godzilla's Spiral Atomic Ray from GvsKG. Sadly, there've been no temperature stats for the Spiral Atomic Ray, or even Burning Godzilla's red atomic ray, so the whole thing kind of comes apart without those stats. But I did notice that Super Godzilla's beam strength is roughly double game Godzilla's when fighting MKG, and triple when he fights against Bagan. Probably has something to do with the way he gained "S" energy in both situations.

Anyway, here're the official max damage points from the Japanese SG guidebook:

Godzilla VS. Mecha-King Ghidorah: 70 (Fire Breath Attack), 80 (Hyper Fire Breath Attack)
Super Godzilla vs. MKG: 162 (Super Breath Attack)

Godzilla VS. Bagan: 0* (Fire, due to force field), 30 (Hyper)
Super Godzilla vs. Bagan: 85 (Super)

*As there's generally a 10-point difference between Godzilla's breaths in terms of damage against other monsters, the Hyper breath is about 1.2% stronger than the Fire breath... so I assume the damage dealt here would be 25.
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby SpaceG92 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:58 pm

GigaBowserG wrote:<snip>

I did something similar with putting a ROUGH gauge on how strong Bagan is in Super Godzilla. Ended up coming up with between MechaGodzilla 2 (first fight) and Super MechaGodzilla. Seeing as how most damaging attacks seem to mimic the first MG2 v Godzilla fight. Seeing as how Godzilla can only take like 4/5 or so Plasma beams before getting floored, it kinda matches up.

I really need to think it over. Though i'd say Burning G at the Critical Levels of temp. out weigh Super G

GigaBowserG wrote:-the latter being the equivalent to movie Godzilla's Spiral Atomic Ray from GvsKG. Sadly, there've been no temperature stats for the Spiral Atomic Ray, or even Burning Godzilla's red atomic ray,

Go to the japanese Wikipedia article for Godzilla. They should have the beam temps listed along with scaling them IIRC. Should be under the "feats". I know, wikipedia but IIRC they were all correctly sourced.

Added in 59 seconds:
Also - shouldn't this fall under FM? ? ?

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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby miguelnuva » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:15 pm

Thanks for the help everyone. Two reasons I didn't make this a fantasy match.

1. I'm not putting them against each other just trying to power scale Godzilla's power ups.

2. Video game characters cant be used in a FM.

Added in 40 seconds:
Looks like Burnning G is stronger than Super G.
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby GojiDog » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:13 am

Does the video game ever say how big the monsters are in it?

By the time burning Godzilla shows up in the Heisei series, G-Man was up to 100 meters and the monsters he faced were within that size for the most part, give or take a few meters.

But were the monsters in the game close to that size or closer to the 50 meter standard of the Showa series? Because if so, I think I'd like Burning Godzilla's chances over Super Godzilla, even if SG did the Falcon Punch before it was cool.

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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby GigaBowserG » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:03 am

GojiDog wrote:Does the video game ever say how big the monsters are in it?

By the time burning Godzilla shows up in the Heisei series, G-Man was up to 100 meters and the monsters he faced were within that size for the most part, give or take a few meters.

But were the monsters in the game close to that size or closer to the 50 meter standard of the Showa series? Because if so, I think I'd like Burning Godzilla's chances over Super Godzilla, even if SG did the Falcon Punch before it was cool.


All monsters are the standard Heisei size, 100 meters or above --

Godzilla is 100 meters
King Ghidorah is 120 meters
Mechagodzilla (Heisei) is 120 meters, Mechagodzilla (Showa) is 100 meters
Biollante is 120 meters
Battra's wingspan is 180 meters (matches with his movie self, so he'd be 73 meters in length)
Mecha-King Ghidorah is 120 meters
Bagan is 150 meters

No official stats for Super Godzilla exist, though he's said to be around 110-120 meters.
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby Kaeyas » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:15 pm

Burning Godzilla takes it I believe. As strong as Super Godzilla was in the game, I don't think he could quite match up to a literal walking nuclear reactor on meltdown which could potentially be a planet buster. But then that also begs the question of who's stronger out of Bagan and Destoroyah?
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby LegendZilla » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:20 pm

Godzilla is technically dying and more likely than not in constant agony in his Burning form
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:46 am

Kaeyas wrote:Burning Godzilla takes it I believe. As strong as Super Godzilla was in the game, I don't think he could quite match up to a literal walking nuclear reactor on meltdown which could potentially be a planet buster. But then that also begs the question of who's stronger out of Bagan and Destoroyah?

Bagan by a milestone. It’s only fan wank that Destroyah’s even this end-all be-all super monster in the first place, to make matters even worst, it retreated as soon as Godzilla got some hits in, you fight Bagan till Bagan decides he’s ready to die in the game :P
Last edited by PitchBlackProgress on Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby Billzilla1974 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:24 am

Looking on Youtube and checking a video of the Super Godzilla vs Bagan fight, frame by frame, it appears that the game runs at between 27 to 31 frames per second.

When Super Godzilla punches Bagan, he appears to move back at about roughly 1/6 of his height per frame, or about 25 meters per frame.
Which would mean that Bagan was pushed back from between 675 to 775 meters per second, which is impressive considering Bagan weighs 280,000 metric tons.

The low end: 0.5 x 280,000,000 Kilograms x 675 *Mps* x 675 *Mps* / 4,180,000,000 Joules = 15,260 tons of TNT.
*Meters per second*

The high end: 0.5 x 280,000,000 KG x 775 x 775 / 4,180,000,000 = 20,116 tons of TNT.

At the very least, Super Goji's charged punch give off the energy between that of the "Little Boy" or "Fat Man" nukes from WW2.

For comparison, the Showa Godzilla's throws during Zone Fighter varied from 500 tons to over *2 kilotons* individually.
*I found Goji's fight with Spyler on dailymotion, and guestimated that he tossed the terror beast's 80,000 ton body at about 480 meters per second.
.5 x 80,000,000 x 480 x 480 / 4,180,000,000 = 2,204 tons of TNT. *

Personally I would say Super Godzilla is slightly superior to Burning Godzilla, at least until Burning Goji starts to meltdown, Super G has more beam weapons, and lacks the downside of dying after defeating his foe.
Last edited by Billzilla1974 on Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby Zarm » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:57 am

Billzilla1974 wrote:and lacks the downside of dying after defeating his foe.


Some people find this quality to be overrated, but I, for one, find this to be an aspirational skill.
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby Billzilla1974 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:12 am

Zarm wrote:
Billzilla1974 wrote:and lacks the downside of dying after defeating his foe.


Some people find this quality to be overrated, but I, for one, find this to be an aspirational skill.


"Remember, if you kill your foe before they kill you, then dying a painful, organ melting death isn't a bad thing." -Godzillandhi, 1995.
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby GigaBowserG » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:18 am

Billzilla1974 wrote:Looking on Youtube and checking a video of the Super Godzilla vs Bagan fight, frame by frame, it appears that the game runs at between 27 to 31 frames per second.


Would it change anything if it were going at around 60fps?
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby Billzilla1974 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:43 am

GigaBowserG wrote:
Billzilla1974 wrote:Looking on Youtube and checking a video of the Super Godzilla vs Bagan fight, frame by frame, it appears that the game runs at between 27 to 31 frames per second.


Would it change anything if it were going at around 60fps?

It depends, if the game was meant to run at 60fps, then using Youtube's utility to check frames by pausing and using the "< >" keys is flawed. It seemed to work when I was using it on vids of ToMG & Monster zero though, which both had the old standard 24fps. Looking at several different videos of the game on YouTube, it would appear the game's usual frame rate is 31 frames per second.
But, assuming I made an error & YouTube wasn't counting actual frames, the speed feats would probably be halved, leading to Bagan's body being moved a minimal speed of 303.75 meters per second. This would lead to an output of 3,090 tons of TNT, slightly above Showa Godzilla tossing Spyler onto his head.

The max speed of Bagan being knocked back would then be about 400.416 mps, resulting in a maximum energy output for Super Godzilla's punch of 5,370 tons of TNT.
This would be somewhat impressive for only a single punch, but nothing special when it comes to physical power as a whole, as the Showa MechaGodzilla outdoes that simply by flying at Mach 5, which gave MG a kinetic energy output of over 13 kilotons.

Added in 4 hours 24 minutes 29 seconds::
The "super breath" does about 80 damage to Bagan, while his "energy tail attack" does about 50 damage, Super Godzilla's full body strike does roughly 64 damage.

Super G's "Nova beam" does between 95 to 105 damage to Bagan, and Goji's "super punch" can vary between 4 to 10 damage.

*Edit* After re-thinking about it, I realized these feats actually seem underwhelming when comparing them to Post-Ghido-Goji damaging a continental plate, swimming through lava, and enduring far greater torment than what is shown off in the game.

Added in 1 day 22 hours 34 minutes 49 seconds:
My previous attempt to gauge Super G's & Bagan's feats are definitely inaccurate, since none of the above would compare to when he destroyed Tokyo in his orb form.

I'm not sure how much it would take to destroy Tokyo, but since Sendai was calculated to have been destroyed by the legion flower in Gamera 2 at nearly 112 megatons by Deathbattle, I'll lowball and say each of Bagan's energy spheres gave an energy output of 20 megatons each for a total of 80 megatons of damage to Tokyo.

I'm not sure how the energy balls would compare to Bagan's other attacks, but for convenience I'll say they are comparable to Bagan's physical slams.
During the battle, Bagan did about 55 damage to Godzilla from just slamming into him once, dividing 20 megatons by 55 would give us an output of 363,363.36 tons of TNT per hit point of damage done to normal Godzilla. This would mean that the normal Godzilla in the game has durability of just over 218 megatons with 600 health, and over 254.54 megatons at 700 health. While Godzilla took 55 damage from Bagan's physical slam, Super Godzilla only took 12 damage from the same attack, therefore, Super G is likely about 4.5833 times more durable than standard Goji.

This would mean that Super Godzilla can withstand, at the very least, 1.166 gigatons of TNT, and using the high end of 112 MT per Bagan attack would give Super G a maximum durability of 6.5296 gigatons of TNT. I assume that Tokyo is larger than Sendai and would take a higher yield to destroy, but I don't have an exact figure for its destruction.

For comparison I'll assume Godzilla's attacks are comparable to Bagan's physical attack, most of them, at best, only did about 2 damage to Bagan.

Ordinarily this would give Bagan only a durability of 327 megatons, but since he seems to be a near equal to Super G I'll give him the 4.5833 multiplier as well.
Bagan likely can endure between 1.4988 to 8.3936 gigatons of TNT. (I know Super G & Bagan have the same HP in game, but Bagan seems to lose less health, while Super G can do slightly more damage per attack)

Using these parameters, the Nova chest beam would be firing between 158.2131 megatons to 979.2571 megatons at Bagan per use.

Super Godzilla might be able to generate a maximum output for his Nova Beam from just over 3 Tsar Bomba's per on the low end, up to almost a gigaton of energy at the high end.

I apologize for making such a large post.
Last edited by Billzilla1974 on Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:48 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby miguelnuva » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:40 pm

Billzilla1974 wrote:
GigaBowserG wrote:
Billzilla1974 wrote:snip.


Thanks for all that, it was an interesting read.
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby Billzilla1974 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:30 pm

miguelnuva wrote:
Billzilla1974 wrote:
GigaBowserG wrote:


Thanks for all that, it was an interesting read.

You're welcome, I hope that gave a clearer basis for how tough Super Godzilla probably is.

Super G is somewhere between 4.5833 to 25.6525 times more durable than the game's standard Godzilla when he's at 700 health.
Although this is a large margin of speculation for Super Goji, to be fair, I haven't seen anything stating how much more powerful Burning G is compared to his post-1991 base form. We know the burning form is obviously more powerful, but by how much is bit hazy.

I kind of wish there were tempuratures or statements for how powerful the Hyper Fire Ray (or the burning form in general) was, then we could compare Burning Godzilla's strongest beam vs Super Godzilla's Nova beam.

For now, I'll guess that Super G is a form comparable to a faster, more beam spamming Burning G, with arguably stronger punches.
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby GigaBowserG » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:56 pm

miguelnuva wrote:
Billzilla1974 wrote:


Thanks for all that, it was an interesting read.


I concur, this was what I was hoping to see, an honest attempt to figure out the offensive/defensive capabilities of both Bagan and Super Godzilla utilizing some crazy real-life numbers coupled with mathematics :applause:
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Re: Can we gage who is stronger between Burning Godzilla and Super Godzilla?

Postby Billzilla1974 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:23 pm

GigaBowserG wrote:
I concur, this was what I was hoping to see, an honest attempt to figure out the offensive/defensive capabilities of both Bagan and Super Godzilla utilizing some crazy real-life numbers coupled with mathematics :applause:


Thanks! I had been wondering how powerful Bagan & Super Godzilla were for a while, and after looking at Godzilla feat calculations from the Naruto forums a couple years back, I decided to try calculating them myself. I might try to look for the Showa Goji's best feats in Zone fighter and the 70s Mecha G duology next.

I actually find this praise ironic since I usually have problems with more advanced math IRL. :lol:
Last edited by Billzilla1974 on Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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