Does Hesei Godzilla have the same arc as Showa Godzilla?

[KaijuCanuck]

I should clarify: I don't think that Hesei Godzilla's character really changes in any major way, apart from that he gets a juvenile of his species to care for. His behaviour is basically consistent throughout (lumbers into population centres, seeks out other kaiju like some kind of very slow assassin). But around GvMG2, the films themselves suddenly pivot from "We need to stop him" plotlines to portraying Godzilla as misunderstood and the one who always emerges triumphant. G-Force, especially that Commander Aso guy, become kind of a villain in their unwillingness to show Godzilla any kind of mercy. In this way, the films have an arc that, while much more subtle, is very similar to the Showa series.

What do you guys think?

[Lain Of The Wired]

In the famous words of the manga editor from Godzilla vs. Gigan... "I think it stinks!"

[Cybermat47]

The arc isn't so much about Godzilla changing, but more about people's perceptions of him changing.

Added in 24 seconds:

In the famous words of the manga editor from Godzilla vs. Gigan... "I think it stinks!"

"You're a hard bitch."

[eabaker]

The arc isn't so much about Godzilla changing, but more about people's perceptions of him changing.

While I basically agree with that, I would point out that the first four Heisei movies all include sequences where Godzilla attacks cities without any particular external motivation, whereas the final three - unless I'm forgetting something - one show him entering cities to battle other monsters or locate Baby/Junior.

Of course, that could be less an indication of a change in Godzilla's behavior, and more a choice about what to show that would best reflect, as you say, people's perceptions of him.

I suppose the best in-universe reading I can think of for an actual change in behavior is that, with a youngster to protect, Godzilla is "staying at home with the kid" instead of going out.

[KaijuCanuck]

The arc isn't so much about Godzilla changing, but more about people's perceptions of him changing.

While I basically agree with that, I would point out that the first four Heisei movies all include sequences where Godzilla attacks cities without any particular external motivation, whereas the final three - unless I'm forgetting something - one show him entering cities to battle other monsters or locate Baby/Junior.

Of course, that could be less an indication of a change in Godzilla's behavior, and more a choice about what to show that would best reflect, as you say, people's perceptions of him.

I suppose the best in-universe reading I can think of for an actual change in behavior is that, with a youngster to protect, Godzilla is "staying at home with the kid" instead of going out.

If there is a change, it's subtle. Undoubtedly this is the same character either way, unlike the Showa Godzilla where his change in heart is so dramatic you can tell Toho was not super worried about it making a lot of sense. One of the reasons I appreciate the Heisei series is it's very consistent characterization of Godzilla, for me this is the definitive Godzilla.

BUT, like you also suggest, the movies themselves do change in how he is presented. GvMG2 is cool in how you can sense the shift. There's a lot of moral ambiguity - Miki's unwillingness to kill Godzilla but does so anyway*, one of the human heroes is a pilot of Garuda who engages in combat with the kaiju but at the end is glad to see Godzilla and baby leave safely, and then my original point that by the end it's the rampaging kaiju Godzilla and Rodan who come off as the most sympathetic. It's this weird feeling of everyone going through the motions they are supposed to and trained for, but none of them are really certain of any of it anymore.

*Holy crap I never really thought about that before. Miki freaking killed him!

[Lain Of The Wired]

In the famous words of the manga editor from Godzilla vs. Gigan... "I think it stinks!"

"You're a hard bitch."

OT- I agree with eabaker, with the exception of G84 (because he was motivated by hunger) in the beginning of the Heisei series, Godzilla attacked unprovoked for the most part, so it was only natural humanity would see him as nothing but a menace
Starting with GvM2, Godzilla had motivation for his attacks, and it always seemed to be motivated by the baby.
From GvM2 through Destroyah, he's searching for Baby
In GvSG, Godzilla had to kill Spacegodzilla to free Baby, so it makes sense for Miki to begin to sympathies with him.

[KaijuCanuck]

I just think it's interesting that, whenever you spend a lot of time with one Godzilla, there's this kind of natural progression to becoming some kind of protagonist that is, if not necessarily 'good', at least on the side of the audience.

[Ivo-goji]

I like how the Millennium series plays out the same way despite all the movies being self contained.
1999: "You're a menace"
2002: "You're a sympathetic menace but everyone still wants to kill you"
2004: "You're a dad, time to save the world from aliens"

[GodzillaBurgh]

Even other people besides Miki felt bad for Godzilla. In GODZILLA VS. SPACEGODZILLA, after SpaceGodzilla trapped Little Godzilla in that crystal prison after pounding the crap out of Godzilla. When Shinjo, Koji, Asuka and Miki noticed Yuki didn't fire the coagulant bullet to kill Godzilla, he replied, "I think he had enough of a bad day". He even attempted to sacrifice himself to take out SpaceG's power crystals by ramming MOGUERA into them. In at the end of the movie, Yuki decided to let go of his grudge after Godzilla merked SpaceG as he head back to the sea to Baas Island.

[KaijuCanuck]

Even other people besides Miki felt bad for Godzilla. In GODZILLA VS. SPACEGODZILLA, after SpaceGodzilla trapped Little Godzilla in that crystal prison after pounding the crap out of Godzilla. When Shinjo, Koji, Asuka and Miki noticed Yuki didn't fire the coagulant bullet to kill Godzilla, he replied, "I think he had enough of a bad day". He even attempted to sacrifice himself to take out SpaceG's power crystals by ramming MOGUERA into them. In at the end of the movie, Yuki decided to let go of his grudge after Godzilla merked SpaceG as he head back to the sea to Baas Island.

Yes! Yuki's plot is a perfect little microcosm of what we're talking about here.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I think it's worth noting that while it gets more sympathetic towards the end starting with the climax of GVM2, Godzilla is consistently the villain, or directly involved with the creation of the villain.

-1984 is clearly focused on him being the main villain.

-in Godzilla vs Biollante, Biollante is created using Godzilla cells, so really she's technically Godzilla as well. And, a majority of the film is actually hyping up Godzilla and the climax is actually about the humans trying to inject him with bacteria and kill him, which Biollante inadvertently helps out.

-Then, while King Ghidorah starts out as the villain in GVKG, it becomes clear Godzilla is still a threat and actually bigger and stronger than ever. By the climax MKG is used to stop Godzilla.

-In Godzilla vs Mothra, Godzilla and Battra are both hyped out as the villains, but by the climax Godzilla is the main antagonist with Mothra and Battra trying to stop Godzilla.

-In Godzilla vs MG2, it's a bit complex, but structurally Godzilla is still the main villain. MG is made to stop Godzilla and shuts down Rodan as well, but at the same time a lot of Godzilla's actions were motivated by saving Baby and Godzilla is much more sympathetic.

Godzilla vs Spacegodzilla is the only film in the Heisei series where Godzilla is not the threat at all, and can be genuinely seen as peaceful and or heroic. Godzilla is peacefully on an island, SG shows up and wrecks him and Junior, and the rest of the film is SG fucking things up before Godzilla gets revenge in a big climax. Still even then so, Godzilla is still sort of the villain through SG by proxy.

In Godzilla vs Destroyah, while Destroyah is clearly the main antagonist, so is Godzilla. Not in the same way as before, but the movie wasn't just about Destroyah, but Godzilla basically being a large ticking time bomb and coming up with methods of stopping him.

As a result, each and everyone of the Heisei films with the exception of Spacegodzilla definitively place Godzilla in an antagonist role. All of the opponent monsters, with the exception of Destroyah and Spacegodzilla and King Ghidorah aren't even pure villians, in the same vein Hedorah, Gigan, Mechagodzilla 1, Megalon, Showa KG, or even Kumongs or Ebirah.

[eabaker]

As a result, each and everyone of the Heisei films with the exception of Spacegodzilla definitively place Godzilla in an antagonist role.

I think your choice of the word "antagonist" here makes a lot more sense than "villain" for most of these movies, especially GvsMG2 and GvsD. We are expected to be sympathetic to Godzilla in both movies, and to question the motives and the methods of the protagonists. In GvsMG2, in particular, we are basically expected to cheer for Godzilla's victory, which makes it hard to classify him as a "villain" in the truest sense.

[GigaBowserG]

Yeah, I can't really agree with GvsMGII Godzilla as being antagonistic. He's about as much a villain as Rodan in the movie, both of whom are just looking for Baby Godzilla. Godzilla blew up a bunch of buildings, sure, but it all happened to be in the way of him and Baby G. And after Baby G rejected him, he went back out on his merry way. A very different portrayal compared to his roles in vs. Mothra and especially vs. King Ghidorah.

Anti-hero, sure. But definitely not a straight villain. I always saw Heisei MG filling that role.

[miguelnuva]

Mothra's energy and being a father seemed to have altered Godzilla. He was attacking Japan and wouldn't leave pre 92 and then 93 on he only shows up to pick up his kid.

[ShinGojira14]

Heisei Godzilla is much more of an animal than his Showa incarnation. Aside from gaining a son, he did not go through a character arc of any kind.

[Kaltes-Herzeleid]

I think he was on his way towards having a similar arc, but then Godzilla Vs. Destoroyah happened.