Gamera 3 - The Negatives

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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby KaijuSapian » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:56 pm

Inferno Rodan wrote:
Frankly, the thing that bugs me even more than the battle sucking was the fact that it started off AMAZING. The aerial sequence was absolutely stunning. But then the monsters touched the ground, and the fight instantly ground to a complete halt.


This...
This is really the only thing I can find negative about the movie. The fight between Iris and Gamera started of just stellar... then became rather dull. I remember them walking more than I do fighting.
That and I wish Gamera was in the movie a bit more, other than that, I have few gripes with this movie.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby Mecha-Anguirus » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:58 am

Actually, I never really liked the G3 suit. To evil for my taste. Give me G2 anyday (but G4 is still my favorite).
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby FlawedCoil82 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:28 pm

Now see, I have always been fascinated by the idea of evil versus evil. I like seeing one evil character taking on another to prove which is the worst. So I like how aggressive Gamera looked, he looked even more scary than Iris (but Iris was scary more because he was so mysterious and hard to understand and I had hoped he was going to live up to the hype in the final battle and give Gamera hell). I love how Godzilla looked in GMK and found it unfortunate that none of his opponents could look (or act) half as evil or badass as he did. One of my favorite things about Godzilla vs. Destoroyah was seeing an evil, scary looking monster fighting another scary, evil looking monster (Godzilla with his glowing reddish eyes was pretty evil looking).

"Gamera 4"? I haven't seen that (unless you mean "Gamera: The Brave", in which it's fatal flaw was a cute monster versus a mean (pretty awesome looking) one.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby DaikaijuSokogeki! » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:27 pm

My main beef with Gamera 3 are those two creepy as hell cultists that follow our leads around. They barely serve any purpose to the main plot and the payoff we get for both characters is extremely lame. They just ate up screentime that could've gone to the kaiju or the other characters instead. Aside from that, it's a solid film but I gotta say Gamera 2 is the more entertaining and downright better film.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby Arrow » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:15 pm

FlawedCoil82 wrote:"Gamera 4"? I haven't seen that (unless you mean "Gamera: The Brave", in which it's fatal flaw was a cute monster versus a mean (pretty awesome looking) one.

Gamera: the Brave was released in 2006 by Kadokawa and the only studio-released Gamera film released this decade. It was a return to the Showa Gamera-style, and non-canon to the Heisei Gamera Trilogy, but didn't do well at the box office.

Gamera 4 is a fan film taking place after Gamera 3.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby FlawedCoil82 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:15 pm

Really? I have never seen "Gamera 4" before. Is it easy to obtain (or is it worth it?)
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby bananaoil » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:50 pm

While Gamera 3 is okay, I consider it the weakest film in the trilogy because of some weak/needless characters and because certain elements of the story are under-developed.

Kurata's only purpose in the film is to deliver the Dreamcast game to Nagamine. During the rest of the film he's simply a talking head who delivers exposition that Asakura could have easily provided and should have since she's the more developed, interesting character anyway.

And on that note, while video game culture is an interesting, almost cyber-punkian way to tie this film in with teenagers (something Kaneko was trying to do with the entire trilogy), the concept is dead in the water the moment it's introduced. We get an explanation of mana from Asagi later on in the film anyway, and Nagamine gets caught up with Kurata and Asakura because of her connection to Ayana, not because Kurata sent her a beta copy of a video game, so the entire segment in which Nagamine fiddles with a Dreamcast controller is moot.

My last problem with this film is most likely an issue with ADV's subs. Who the hell is Kurata speaking to at the end when he's yammering on about "your family was once of the house of Gyaos but your blood is now weak." Was he talking to Asakura, who was attempting to fuse with Iris, or was he talking to Nagamine, who seems to have a connection to the Gyaos through her research? I would think it's more likely that Kurata was talking to Asakura considering the context, but the rant is so long and muddled and, if memory serves, it follows something Nagamine said, that I don't know who he's talking to. Can anyone clear this up for me?
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby Inferno Rodan » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:33 am

bananaoil wrote:Who the hell is Kurata speaking to at the end when he's yammering on about "your family was once of the house of Gyaos but your blood is now weak." Was he talking to Asakura, who was attempting to fuse with Iris, or was he talking to Nagamine, who seems to have a connection to the Gyaos through her research? I would think it's more likely that Kurata was talking to Asakura considering the context, but the rant is so long and muddled and, if memory serves, it follows something Nagamine said, that I don't know who he's talking to. Can anyone clear this up for me?

He might have been talking to Iris itself, considering it's supposed to be a mutated Gyaos. I dunno, I've never watched it subbed and I don't recall the dub having any line like that.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby Fairy Mothra » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:18 pm

Inferno Rodan wrote:
bananaoil wrote:Who the hell is Kurata speaking to at the end when he's yammering on about "your family was once of the house of Gyaos but your blood is now weak." Was he talking to Asakura, who was attempting to fuse with Iris, or was he talking to Nagamine, who seems to have a connection to the Gyaos through her research? I would think it's more likely that Kurata was talking to Asakura considering the context, but the rant is so long and muddled and, if memory serves, it follows something Nagamine said, that I don't know who he's talking to. Can anyone clear this up for me?

He might have been talking to Iris itself, considering it's supposed to be a mutated Gyaos. I dunno, I've never watched it subbed and I don't recall the dub having any line like that.


don't take my word for this since it's been a while since I watched it and I was confused about that line too, but what I got from it was that he was talking to Asakura, because she was like some kind of priestess or something and tried to fuse with Iris and all that. Like she thought that she would be able to because of her family's position and relation to Gyaos/Iris or whatever, but she couldn't. I don't know. I just remember being confused about it too.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby bananaoil » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:45 pm

Fairy Mothra wrote:don't take my word for this since it's been a while since I watched it and I was confused about that line too, but what I got from it was that he was talking to Asakura, because she was like some kind of priestess or something and tried to fuse with Iris and all that. Like she thought that she would be able to because of her family's position and relation to Gyaos/Iris or whatever, but she couldn't. I don't know. I just remember being confused about it too.


That seems the most likely option, and for the time being that's what I think happens in that scene. Unfortunately, either the subs fail to convey to whom Kurata is speaking, or the editing makes it too vague, or a little of both. If someone can confirm what's going on there I would appreciate it.

But yeah, a talking head with feminine mannerisms doesn't equal a well rounded character. With a little clever editing, cg, and audio work, you could remove him entirely and we wouldn't miss anything.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby Showa Gyaos » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:31 pm

Arrow wrote:
FlawedCoil82 wrote:"Gamera 4"? I haven't seen that (unless you mean "Gamera: The Brave", in which it's fatal flaw was a cute monster versus a mean (pretty awesome looking) one.

Gamera: the Brave was released in 2006 by Kadokawa and the only studio-released Gamera film released this decade. It was a return to the Showa Gamera-style, and non-canon to the Heisei Gamera Trilogy, but didn't do well at the box office.

Gamera 4 is a fan film taking place after Gamera 3.

I just want to point something out: Gamera 3 didn't do so well in the box office, either.

On topic: I feel that the third and final Gamera movie was extremely dissatisfying. The plot focuses more on the human characters than the actual trials Gamera faced in this movie. I tried time and time again to find something that I could appreciate in G3, but to no avail. I also believed that turning Gamera into a monster (the souless eyes, lack of personality, etc.) was the worst decision made by Daiei. If they wanted to appeal to the children in some way, this redesigned Gamera was a shitty way to make it "child-friendly."

EDIT: Added quotation marks beside "child-friendly."
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby Arrow » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:20 pm

Showa Gyaos wrote:I just want to point something out: Gamera 3 didn't do so well in the box office, either.

I never said Gamera 3 did well at the box office in that post. I thought both movies were pretty good, and world's better than anything Godzilla was doing (though I enjoy GMK more than Gamera the Brave).
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby Living Corpse » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:45 pm

So what was the deal with the amulet of Iris reacting when what's her name stole it and chanted something about a god before going splat from the two kaiju falling on top of her?


Sorry if this has been answered before, and thanks in advance.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby Legionmaster » Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:55 pm

Living Corpse wrote:So what was the deal with the amulet of Iris reacting when what's her name stole it and chanted something about a god before going splat from the two kaiju falling on top of her?


Sorry if this has been answered before, and thanks in advance.

She wanted to be the one to fuse with Irys. But the way the film is set up, it's very clear that Irys only has intentions to fuse with Ayana.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby Living Corpse » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:02 am

Oh, I see now.


I kinda wish Iris did fuse with Ayana. The film pretty much says that once he does he will mutate into another form that could destroy the world and I'm really curious as to what his final form would have been like, what it looks like, what powers it has, how strong it is.

Who knows, maybe Iris's new form would have been more dangerous then Legion herself.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby Spirit Ghidorah 2010 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:25 am

G3 kicked ass. Y'all just blowing it out of proportion.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby g2kmaster » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:33 am

Fairy Mothra wrote:
Inferno Rodan wrote:
bananaoil wrote:Who the hell is Kurata speaking to at the end when he's yammering on about "your family was once of the house of Gyaos but your blood is now weak." Was he talking to Asakura, who was attempting to fuse with Iris, or was he talking to Nagamine, who seems to have a connection to the Gyaos through her research? I would think it's more likely that Kurata was talking to Asakura considering the context, but the rant is so long and muddled and, if memory serves, it follows something Nagamine said, that I don't know who he's talking to. Can anyone clear this up for me?

He might have been talking to Iris itself, considering it's supposed to be a mutated Gyaos. I dunno, I've never watched it subbed and I don't recall the dub having any line like that.


...what I got from it was that he was talking to Asakura, because she was like some kind of priestess or something and tried to fuse with Iris and all that. Like she thought that she would be able to because of her family's position and relation to Gyaos/Iris or whatever, but she couldn't.


This. This is correct. A thing that backs up this idea is that Asakura seems to have a more than normal knowledge of the "I, Ching" (ADV's sub and dub refers to this as the "Book of Changes", a real nick name for the book, like how the Bible is also called the "good book"). Hell, a room in the Kyoto JR with rune markings and such is enough to show how core into the religion she is.

Living Corpse wrote:I kinda wish Iris did fuse with Ayana. The film pretty much says that once he does he will mutate into another form that could destroy the world and I'm really curious as to what his final form would have been like, what it looks like, what powers it has, how strong it is.

Who knows, maybe Iris's new form would have been more dangerous then Legion herself.


That's an interesting idea I never considered. Maybe he would look more like a phoenix once he made the fusion? All I know though is that I would have liked - if it came to pass - that Iris' final transformation be more Akira-like. People keep on saying how much of an anime feel this film has and well, Akira has the best transformation sequence I have seen in terms of look and utter wtf-ness while still being cool, so yeah.

Without quoting, again, I would like to point out that while not as good as the Mothra films, Gamera 3 and the Gamera trilogy in general did make some proffit at the box office. It made back it's budget and more and along with the exhibits and insane amount of merchandise released (especialy in G3's case), I think it did very well.

As for Gamera being child-friendly, I think that was something that Daiei mandated with each film though after G1 Daiei kind of loosened up once G1 became an box office and critical success. And even with Gamera becomming more, and more darker with each film, the kids still liked it (as shown on the premire vids on the ADV DVDs). However, Gamera still showed personality in G3. Gammy durring the Shinjuku scenes was more vicious in his body language than say Godzilla taking on the Super X in Godzilla 1984. And at the end, he showed some emotion especialy when bringing Ayana back to the main female cast. That was particularly nice and exhibited the use of Minogame mythos (notice how Gamera seems to understand the humans, that's is a trait of the Minogame after it grows to be 1,000 years old). Atleast he is human friendly.

This is just me though.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby tokyostateofmind » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:55 am

I retract any qualms I have this movie. I have been watching it lately and everything seems to fit the film, may not to the viewer, but within the movie from the music to the drama, it all seems to work.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby Living Corpse » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:43 pm

The final fight could have been done better. In the air it was amazing but on the ground there really wasn't anything note worthy except for when Iris blocked several fireballs from an airborn Gamera, stole Gamera's powers, and the plasma fist that used to kill Iris. Really the highlight of the film for me is when Gamera spins into Iris and cuts into him like a saw and Iris blasts him with sonic cutters, causing blood to hit the screen. At least his sonic cutters can cut into Gamera, the Gayos can't even do that now. It just bounces off him.

Another thing that bugs me is are long periods without fighting. Now before you get on my case, this works for the first half of the film, lets us know the humans and builds up suspense until Gamera and Gayos show up and it's a blast. Gamera looks like something out of a nightmare and while some people don't like the G3 design you gotta admit that it kinda works for the themes in this movie because as far as most people are concerned in all three films, not just this one, Gamera is a threat.

The fact that he pretty much knows he can't save everyone and must make some sacrifices in order to keep the Gayos from getting out of hand only fuels peoples misunderstanding of him and further mistake him for a villain. But the long periods only work for the first half of the film. The second half it's just you waiting, and waiting after seeing an amazing scene that get's you pumped up for more. Then comes the awesome air battle, then comes the way too slow ground fight that really doesn't seem all that great except for the things I mentioned earlier.

Still, overall it's a great film. Not the best but it has it's moments, where G1 is a 4 out of 5, G2 is a 5 out of 5, G3 is a 4.5 out of 5.

I also like how Iris is hinted to have another form if he absorbs Ayna, maybe he would look more like a Phonix(SP?) and that there is supposedly two other guardian monsters we haven't seen, a tiger of the west and a dragon of the east. The cliffhanger ending is dissapointing at first but then you see you can end however you want. Maybe Gamera died. Or maybe the other two guardian monsters woke up and helped him. Who knows, it's up to you the viewer.


Gamera 3 has it's flaws, no doubt about that but it's still a great film.
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Re: Gamera 3 - The Negatives

Postby Rody » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:54 pm

It's been a while since I saw it, but I'll give my 2 cents.

When watching G3, I found the mythical stuff very confusing. I like Irys to have some ambiguity to its origin, but it was written a little poorly.

It's nice to see Osako again, but he doesn't really do anything. Asakura & Kurata don't do much either, although they may have worked better had they been combined into one character.

I actually don't remember the ground battle very much - perhaps partly because it was boring, but probably mostly because the focus was on the human characters. For that reason, I can't really complain.

Climax - Okay, so Gamera could have shot Irys at point blank range, but what's the fun in that? It's not dramatic enough. I really liked that fight, because it was unique. The previous two films ended the battle with standard finisher-type moves. Granted, the Mana beam is cool, but in G3, you're not quite sure how it's going to end, and it plays out very nicely.

I really need to see these movies again. I need a Blu-Ray player, i guess. :(
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