Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

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Israha
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

Post by Israha »

ebirahsmeg1 wrote: I'm sorry, but the notion that this is the "definitive" KG of the entire series is beyond laughable. It's in the middle of the pack...
I was talking about the background story of him and his portrayal, as a character. From that point of view, he IS the best. Kidnapping several dozens of children, imprisoning them and planning on feeding on their life energy; being responsible for the extinction of dinosaurs and being so powerful that Rainbow Mothra needed to travel back in time and defeat him, when he was younger and easier to beat, that's pretty awesome for me.

Yes, his movie is decent at best and his design and execution, while good, isn't top notch...but that doesn't change things I've stated above. I refuse to be a part of the Showa bandwagon on this occasion.

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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

Post by Dannybeane »

Showa KG wiped out an advanced Martian race and required the combined powers of Godzilla, Mothra and Rodan to beat him all while not being a pedophile.

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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

Post by Mr. Xeno »

Dannybeane wrote:Showa KG wiped out an advanced Martian race and required the combined powers of Godzilla, Mothra and Rodan to beat him all while not being a pedophile.
So let me get this straight, Showa King Ghidorah has been:

Easily and completely controlled by the Xillians
Easily and completely controlled by the Kilaaks,
Easily and completely controlled by the Space Hunter Nebula M aliens,
Defeated in a single battle by three earth monsters
Defeated in a single battle by six earth monsters
Defeated within a single night by two earth monsters despite teaming up with another alien monster

And yet somehow managed to wipe out an entire advanced alien species? Because if so, then either the martians were M. Night Shyamalon creations, or you're being very disingenuous.
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

Post by Terasawa »

If you're doubting that the original King Ghidorah leveled an advanced alien civilization, all you need to do is rewatch Ghidrah, the Three-Headed Monster, in which it's clearly stated.
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

Post by Dannybeane »

Mr. Xeno wrote:
Dannybeane wrote:Showa KG wiped out an advanced Martian race and required the combined powers of Godzilla, Mothra and Rodan to beat him all while not being a pedophile.
So let me get this straight, Showa King Ghidorah has been:

Easily and completely controlled by the Xillians
Easily and completely controlled by the Kilaaks,
Easily and completely controlled by the Space Hunter Nebula M aliens,
Defeated in a single battle by three earth monsters
Defeated in a single battle by six earth monsters
Defeated within a single night by two earth monsters despite teaming up with another alien monster

And yet somehow managed to wipe out an entire advanced alien species?
Yes. Different aliens have different levels of technology. Who's to say if Grand King Ghidorah existed in the Showa universe, he wouldn't have wound up getting mind controlled by aliens? The RoM trilogy never brought aliens into their story so whether or not Showa KG was mind controlled is irelevent. What is relevant is that Mars had a civilization that was advanced enough to travel to earth after KG basically leveled the whole planet. Also at no point did showa KG ever expose his pedophilic tendencies by focusing on eating only children. Showa KG is the winner by TKO.

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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

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Wanting to eat kids =/= pedophile. That's like saying wanting to eat cattle makes you a zoophile.
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Dannybeane
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

Post by Dannybeane »

Godzillian wrote:Wanting to eat kids =/= pedophile. That's like saying wanting to eat cattle makes you a zoophile.
Fine, he is a child predator.
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

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Godzillian wrote:Wanting to eat kids =/= pedophile. That's like saying wanting to eat cattle makes you a zoophile.
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Israha
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

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Dannybeane wrote:Yes. Different aliens have different levels of technology. Who's to say if Grand King Ghidorah existed in the Showa universe, he wouldn't have wound up getting mind controlled by aliens? The RoM trilogy never brought aliens into their story so whether or not Showa KG was mind controlled is irelevent. What is relevant is that Mars had a civilization that was advanced enough to travel to earth after KG basically leveled the whole planet. Also at no point did showa KG ever expose his pedophilic tendencies by focusing on eating only children. Showa KG is the winner by TKO.
In the same fashion, you can state GKG would wind up wiping out humanity (same way like he did with dinosaurs), if Mothra hadn't stop him...

Both Showa KG and GKG are capable of eradicating entire planets, if not stopped by other kaiju. Only Showa does it instinctively, or he's forced to do so by mind control; and GKG does it because he can, because his evil personality - and that makes him a better villain, in my point of view.

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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

Post by Dannybeane »

GKG flies to earth to feed on children for sustenance. Showa KG flies to earth to wreck stuff. Showa KG > GKG on the Evil Scale and is a better villain.

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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

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Dannybeane wrote:GKG flies to earth to feed on children for sustenance. Showa KG flies to earth to wreck stuff. Showa KG > GKG on the Evil Scale and is a better villain.
GKG and wrecks stuff and kills children. Emphasis on kills children. I don't care how much you hate kids, that's still really damn evil. He also can somehow regenerate completely despite being nothing more than one of his tails. Showa Ghidorah's a strong beast, but got his shit pushed in multiple times. It took a literal deus ex machina to kill GKG, he was just too powerful for his own good.
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

Post by Dannybeane »

GigaBowserG wrote:
Dannybeane wrote:GKG flies to earth to feed on children for sustenance. Showa KG flies to earth to wreck stuff. Showa KG > GKG on the Evil Scale and is a better villain.
GKG and wrecks stuff and kills children. Emphasis on kills children. I don't care how much you hate kids, that's still really damn evil. He also can somehow regenerate completely despite being nothing more than one of his tails. Showa Ghidorah's a strong beast, but got his shit pushed in multiple times. It took a literal deus ex machina to kill GKG, he was just too powerful for his own good.
GKG wiped out the dinosaurs, yet life still existed on earth. Mars on the other hand was turned into a barren dead planet. Showa KG wins.

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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

Post by ebirahsmeg1 »

Mr. Xeno wrote:
Dannybeane wrote:Showa KG wiped out an advanced Martian race and required the combined powers of Godzilla, Mothra and Rodan to beat him all while not being a pedophile.
So let me get this straight, Showa King Ghidorah has been:

Easily and completely controlled by the Xillians
Easily and completely controlled by the Kilaaks,
Easily and completely controlled by the Space Hunter Nebula M aliens,
Defeated in a single battle by three earth monsters
Defeated in a single battle by six earth monsters
Defeated within a single night by two earth monsters despite teaming up with another alien monster

And yet somehow managed to wipe out an entire advanced alien species? Because if so, then either the martians were M. Night Shyamalon creations, or you're being very disingenuous.
Yeah, and if you put the likes of SpaceG/Destroyah/Biollante/any ROM kaiju in a battle against the likes of Godzilla/Rodan/Mothra, or hell even against against 6-7 monsters like in DAM, then they too would eventually get their asses handed to them. Showa-KG always held his own when outnumbered and continuously gave Godzilla problems, despite some "revisionist history" and a strange obsession with "backstories" that I've observed lately around here in regards to these matters.
Israha wrote:I was talking about the background story of him and his portrayal, as a character. From that point of view, he IS the best.
Oh geez, here we go with the silly "But he ain't got no backstory! Dat's why the ROM trilogy and Heisei era rulez" schtick again. :roll: Seriously, we need to start a drinking game where someone has to take a swig whenever someone utters the word "backstory" :huge:

Here's the backstory (*takes a swig*) in a nutshell:

Showa KG is a Planet Destroyer, and wiped out an ancient civilization on Mars (Venus in the Japanese version). Short, simple, and just plain badass.

Grand King Ghidorah's backstory (*takes a swig*) - Likes to kidnap children. Um....yeah. Oh, but he did wipe out the dinosaurs....zzzzz.......


Any questions?


Anyways, as I said, there are many things I do like about GKG, but he's not the "definitive KG" of the entire series...not even close.

*puts the JWB bottle away*
GIANT CONDOR!!!!!!!! :shock:

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Israha
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

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Dannybeane wrote: GKG wiped out the dinosaurs, yet life still existed on earth. Mars on the other hand was turned into a barren dead planet. Showa KG wins.
That's a fair point, BUT...Earth has far better natural conditions for life to respawn after a global extinction event than Mars.
ebirahsmeg1 wrote:Oh geez, here we go with the silly "But he ain't got no backstory! Dat's why the ROM trilogy and Heisei era rulez" schtick again. :roll: Seriously, we need to start a drinking game where someone has to take a swig whenever someone utters the word "backstory" :huge:

Here's the backstory (*takes a swig*) in a nutshell:

Showa KG is a Planet Destroyer, and wiped out an ancient civilization on Mars (Venus in the Japanese version). Short, simple, and just plain badass.

Grand King Ghidorah's backstory (*takes a swig*) - Likes to kidnap children. Um....yeah. Oh, but he did wipe out the dinosaurs....zzzzz.......
Don't get too sarcastic with me, I don't care what "someone" says about this or that, I'm statin' MY opinion, not the general one (which is more or less contradictory to mine, as most of the fans here are Showa fanatics). I'm in no mood for these personal jabs, so save 'em for someone's who's interested.

To the point - GKG in his juvenile, far less powerful form was able to cause a global extinction event, the second biggest in Earth's history. That's pretty badass on its own. And secondly, I wasn't specifically sayin' GKG caused more destruction than Showa KG...I was sayin' he has greater array of powers and has more evil, villainous nature, WHICH is the reason I prefer him.
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

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ebirahsmeg1 wrote:Oh geez, here we go with the silly "But he ain't got no backstory! Dat's why the ROM trilogy and Heisei era rulez" schtick again. :roll: Seriously, we need to start a drinking game where someone has to take a swig whenever someone utters the word "backstory" :huge:
Ironically, they said "background story", so you're drinking yourself to death over an umuttered term (and the first to bring the word up in this topic, no less)! :P Would you prefer "origin"?


On a completely different note, before I forget yet again - I've heard that the name "Grand King Ghidorah" was coined by American fans for this iteration, but in Japan the monster's officially known as "King Ghidorah (Modern Form)", or some variation of that. So it's treated not as a different monster, but under the King Ghidorah name, unlike Desghidorah or Mecha-King Ghidorah. I only bring this up since it's just recently I've heard some fans take issue with "Grand King Ghidorah" as a name, since they consider it more a nickname and not officially licensed... unless this is a misconception and "Grand" King Ghidorah is still appropriate.
Japanese: キングギドラ 現代型

I'm personally okay with the name, since it's become more mainstream than saying like "Modern Ghidorah" or "Rebirth Ghidorah". But if it's not official... would it be more appropriate to use the "Modern Type" subtitle? For instance, TK's one of the few Toho-related sites I see still using the "Grand" name. It's kind of like how people referred to Heisei Mechagodzilla as "Mechagodzilla 2" up until the PS3/PS4 Godzilla game rolled around and set the record straight.
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

Post by Godzillian »

GigaBowserG wrote:
ebirahsmeg1 wrote:Oh geez, here we go with the silly "But he ain't got no backstory! Dat's why the ROM trilogy and Heisei era rulez" schtick again. :roll: Seriously, we need to start a drinking game where someone has to take a swig whenever someone utters the word "backstory" :huge:
Ironically, they said "background story", so you're drinking yourself to death over an umuttered term (and the first to bring the word up in this topic, no less)! :P Would you prefer "origin"?


On a completely different note, before I forget yet again - I've heard that the name "Grand King Ghidorah" was coined by American fans for this iteration, but in Japan the monster's officially known as "King Ghidorah (Modern Form)", or some variation of that. So it's treated not as a different monster, but under the King Ghidorah name, unlike Desghidorah or Mecha-King Ghidorah. I only bring this up since it's just recently I've heard some fans take issue with "Grand King Ghidorah" as a name, since they consider it more a nickname and not officially licensed... unless this is a misconception and "Grand" King Ghidorah is still appropriate.
Japanese: キングギドラ 現代型

I'm personally okay with the name, since it's become more mainstream than saying like "Modern Ghidorah" or "Rebirth Ghidorah". But if it's not official... would it be more appropriate to use the "Modern Type" subtitle? For instance, TK's one of the few Toho-related sites I see still using the "Grand" name. It's kind of like how people referred to Heisei Mechagodzilla as "Mechagodzilla 2" up until the PS3/PS4 Godzilla game rolled around and set the record straight.
This is how the name is written in Japan. It's from an official Toho backed book all about Mothra 3
Spoiler:
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The name is just King Ghidorah in Japan. It's thought of as the same character as the Ghidorah in the Showa or Heisei
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

Post by GigaBowserG »

Godzillian wrote:This is how the name is written in Japan. It's from an official Toho backed book all about Mothra 3
...
The name is just King Ghidorah in Japan. It's thought of as the same character as the Ghidorah in the Showa or Heisei
I've seen that book around, was wondering if it had any subtitle for it there or not, thanks for that :) I've only stumbled on the "Modern Form" bit recently from the Japanese Wikipedia and Godzilla Kaiju Collection. Must be a more recent thing to differentiate it from the other incarnations.
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

Post by Mr. Xeno »

Terasawa wrote:If you're doubting that the original King Ghidorah leveled an advanced alien civilization, all you need to do is rewatch Ghidrah, the Three-Headed Monster, in which it's clearly stated.
Oh no, I never doubted that he wiped out Mars. I was just pointing out how Mars clearly wasn't as advanced as led to believe, if you actually look at the events of various films, OR it just wasn't a very well thought out backstory.
Dannybeane wrote: Yes. Different aliens have different levels of technology. Who's to say if Grand King Ghidorah existed in the Showa universe, he wouldn't have wound up getting mind controlled by aliens? The RoM trilogy never brought aliens into their story so whether or not Showa KG was mind controlled is irelevent. What is relevant is that Mars had a civilization that was advanced enough to travel to earth after KG basically leveled the whole planet. Also at no point did showa KG ever expose his pedophilic tendencies by focusing on eating only children. Showa KG is the winner by TKO.
Different levels of technology? We see that the Venusians are able to somehow transport their consciousness over millions of miles and years, which is something no other alien race seen in the Godzilla franchise came close to achieving, and yet somehow they weren't able to defeat a monster that said other races AND Earth monsters were able to quite easily defeat? People say that it took the combined power of three monsters (technically two in Astro-Monster) to simply drive Ghidorah away, but when you really think about it, how many and how long did said battles actually last? Showa Ghidorah doesn't really hold up as much as many fans think. That's not to say that he's a bad character or anything, just that his reputation might be a little overblown. And as for the mind control, that was more so to point out that Mars wasn't all that advanced, but it actually might be more relevant than you think. Remember, GKG was able to actually hypnotize one of the Elias simply because they flew in front of his eye for half a second. That shows that he's far more intelligent and mentally capable than the Showa version, and supports the idea that he's far less susceptible to being mind control than the Showa version. GKG is certainly more powerful in that regard.
Dannybeane wrote:GKG wiped out the dinosaurs, yet life still existed on earth. Mars on the other hand was turned into a barren dead planet. Showa KG wins.
The fact that they were two completely different planets had nothing to do with that? If we have to judge each alien race individually, then the same would go for the planets they exist on. For example, if a monster wiped out both humans and the Xillians, Planet X would be a barren dead planet while Earth would grow new life, but that's only because the former already WAS a barren dead planet, while the latter was the most unique planet in the entire universe (that we know of) simply because of the very specific conditions that exist on its surface.
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

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Mr. Xeno wrote:
Dannybeane wrote: Yes. Different aliens have different levels of technology. Who's to say if Grand King Ghidorah existed in the Showa universe, he wouldn't have wound up getting mind controlled by aliens? The RoM trilogy never brought aliens into their story so whether or not Showa KG was mind controlled is irelevent. What is relevant is that Mars had a civilization that was advanced enough to travel to earth after KG basically leveled the whole planet. Also at no point did showa KG ever expose his pedophilic tendencies by focusing on eating only children. Showa KG is the winner by TKO.
Different levels of technology? We see that the Venusians are able to somehow transport their consciousness over millions of miles and years, which is something no other alien race seen in the Godzilla franchise came close to achieving, and yet somehow they weren't able to defeat a monster that said other races AND Earth monsters were able to quite easily defeat? People say that it took the combined power of three monsters (technically two in Astro-Monster) to simply drive Ghidorah away, but when you really think about it, how many and how long did said battles actually last? Showa Ghidorah doesn't really hold up as much as many fans think. That's not to say that he's a bad character or anything, just that his reputation might be a little overblown. And as for the mind control, that was more so to point out that Mars wasn't all that advanced, but it actually might be more relevant than you think. Remember, GKG was able to actually hypnotize one of the Elias simply because they flew in front of his eye for half a second. That shows that he's far more intelligent and mentally capable than the Showa version, and supports the idea that he's far less susceptible to being mind control than the Showa version. GKG is certainly more powerful in that regard.
Come to the FM section and make a thread like "Showa King Ghidorah Powerful Or Weak?" We can talk about it there we have all the evidence to prove you wrong.
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Re: Monster Discussion #56: Grand King Ghidorah

Post by ebirahsmeg1 »

Israha wrote:
Don't get too sarcastic with me, I don't care what "someone" says about this or that, I'm statin' MY opinion, not the general one (which is more or less contradictory to mine, as most of the fans here are Showa fanatics). I'm in no mood for these personal jabs, so save 'em for someone's who's interested.
Meh, considering how readily some throw around the terms "Showa fanboy / Showa fanatics" around here without thinking twice about it , I'm really not all that worried or concerned whether I hurt someone's feelings or not....too bad.

GigaBowserG wrote:
ebirahsmeg1 wrote:Oh geez, here we go with the silly "But he ain't got no backstory! Dat's why the ROM trilogy and Heisei era rulez" schtick again. :roll: Seriously, we need to start a drinking game where someone has to take a swig whenever someone utters the word "backstory" :huge:
Ironically, they said "background story", so you're drinking yourself to death over an umuttered term (and the first to bring the word up in this topic, no less)! :P Would you prefer "origin"?

Wow, big difference between "background story", "origin" and "back story", eh? :roll: They're all interchangeable. If one took a swig of JWB for every time I heard these terms to prop up the ROM series/demean older films of the genre, then one would indeed suffer from alcohol poisoning...
GIANT CONDOR!!!!!!!! :shock:

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