Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby NSZ » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:16 pm

Lain Of The Wired wrote:and in fact, going by the timeline, Biollante never existed,


That's debunked by the sheer fact that she's even referred to.
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby Lain Of The Wired » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:52 pm

NSZ wrote:
Lain Of The Wired wrote:and in fact, going by the timeline, Biollante never existed,


That's debunked by the sheer fact that she's even referred to.

True, the fact they even had footage of her makes that whole timeline wonky.
But still, like I said, it's never truly said that it was Biollante, but it could make sense that both Mothra and Biollante are to blame for Spacegodzilla
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby miguelnuva » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:20 pm

Lain Of The Wired wrote:
NSZ wrote:
Lain Of The Wired wrote:and in fact, going by the timeline, Biollante never existed,


That's debunked by the sheer fact that she's even referred to.

True, the fact they even had footage of her makes that whole timeline wonky.
But still, like I said, it's never truly said that it was Biollante, but it could make sense that both Mothra and Biollante are to blame for Spacegodzilla


Japan never got rid of Godzilla they created the Heisei Godzilla. If the Godzillasaurs had been left on the island we most likely would have never got the Heisei Godzilla. The Futurians tried to use 54's origins for Heisei Godzilla's origins and thus created a second Godzilla.
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:18 pm

It's suggested by humans that Mothra may have been involved but given the concept art and secondary head cannons combined with the humans statements it is more heavily implied to be Biollante to a point where it isn't ridiculous to assume so.


Also, I don't think it's Mothra because the Elias never bring it up. They never say that Mothra made Spacegodzilla and if such a thing happened I feel like they'd own up to it and send Mothra back to fight SG. Biollante was created by humans and Mothra is meant to fix balance and all sorts of wonky poop so it feels like SG in the end was created by humans through Biollante so they don't feel like it's their responsibility. If that makes sense!
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby Lain Of The Wired » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:41 pm

^ Oh, it does, don't worry lol.
It's pretty obvious that Biollante would be the cell doner, Biollante and Spacegodzilla both share tusks (even though all the new monsters from the Heisei series had tusks).

But what concept art are you talking about?
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:48 pm

Lain Of The Wired wrote:^ Oh, it does, don't worry lol.
It's pretty obvious that Biollante would be the cell doner, Biollante and Spacegodzilla both share tusks (even though all the new monsters from the Heisei series had tusks).

But what concept art are you talking about?


These! (Sorry I can't embed properly, mobile skreeonks up for some reason.
http://www.tohokingdom.com/concept_art/ ... la_04.html
http://www.kaijuphile.com/theroost/conc ... m=7&pos=12
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby Lain Of The Wired » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:55 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
Lain Of The Wired wrote:^ Oh, it does, don't worry lol.
It's pretty obvious that Biollante would be the cell doner, Biollante and Spacegodzilla both share tusks (even though all the new monsters from the Heisei series had tusks).

But what concept art are you talking about?


These! (Sorry I can't embed properly, mobile skreeonks up for some reason.
http://www.tohokingdom.com/concept_art/ ... la_04.html
http://www.kaijuphile.com/theroost/conc ... m=7&pos=12

Lmao, neither of these work :lol:
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby SonOfGorgo » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:56 am

I know this thread may be too old or dead or whatnot, but I thought I might give my own view into the mix.
Anyway, while I think it's possible that both Mothra and Biollante might've been catalysts to the "birth" of Spacegodzilla, I like to also think that Spacegodzilla contained a small piece of Erika (or at least a dark, fragile and broken one of her).
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby Ivo-goji » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:23 am

The whole "Biollante created SpaceGodzilla because they have visual similarities" theory always made me shake my head, because it obviously contradicts canon.

All the official material relating to SpaceGodzilla state that SpaceGodzilla was created from Godzilla's cells. Biollante only possibly helped create SpaceGodzilla by carrying Godzilla's cells into space, not by contributing her hybrid cells. SpaceGodzilla isn't a human-plant-Godzilla hybrid. Biollante didn't get tusks from her rose or Emiko genes, she got them from exaggerating Godzilla's multiple rows of teeth- so did SpaceGodzilla. The only characteristics the two kaiju have in common are what they got from Godzilla. There's just no logical progression from vegetable to mineral.

At any rate from a in-universe perspective, Biollante almost certainly did not help create SpaceGodzilla, because SpaceGodzilla didn't exist in the future the Futurians came from. In their timeline Godzilla never emerged after being defeated by the ANB and never faught any of the subsequent kaiju that appeared in the post-GvsKG timeline. Since SpaceGodzilla only appears after history was changed, the origin that makes the most sense is that he was created by Mothra carrying the G-cells into space in Godzilla vs Mothra. This seems consistent with Mothra being the first to know of SpaceGodzilla's threat and sending a warning to Earth.
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby Terasawa » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:04 pm

Ivo-goji wrote:At any rate from a in-universe perspective, Biollante almost certainly did not help create SpaceGodzilla, because SpaceGodzilla didn't exist in the future the Futurians came from. In their timeline Godzilla never emerged after being defeated by the ANB and never faught any of the subsequent kaiju that appeared in the post-GvsKG timeline. Since SpaceGodzilla only appears after history was changed, the origin that makes the most sense is that he was created by Mothra carrying the G-cells into space in Godzilla vs Mothra. This seems consistent with Mothra being the first to know of SpaceGodzilla's threat and sending a warning to Earth.


..but Mothra only carried Godziller cells into space after fighting Godzilla, an event that didn't happen in the Futurians timeline either.

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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby Ivo-goji » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:29 pm

Terasawa wrote:
..but Mothra only carried Godziller cells into space after fighting Godzilla, an event that didn't happen in the Futurians timeline either.

Yes.

Exactly.

That's what I said.

SpaceGodzilla does not exist in the Futurians' timeline.
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby Zarm » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:51 pm

I reached this conclusion as well. Unless he did exist (I can't remember if there is an explicit mention of no further kaiju, or if there was room for other kaiju to have appeared without mention- after all, Rodan and Battra still would have, and they got no mention) and was stopped by a combination of Fire Rodan, Little Godzilla, possibly a barely-survived Mothra, possibly a returned Biollante or Battra, and the Super-XIII (without future-tech enhancements).

...Which does seem to make simply not having existed more likely.

OR, there is one further possibility; the lack of Godzilla's activity and/or lack of advanced future tech never draws SpaceGodzilla to Earth. Because Godzilla is KOed and Earth's tech profile is low, SpaceGodzilla opts for some other, more tantalizing target.

Admittedly, these seem slimmer options than his non-existence.

I still don't entirely count out the design-similarity notion, as the brief explanation of 'Godzilla cells in a black hole' we get is not comprehensive or from a knowledgeable enough source to preclude aspects of another donor from also being incorporated (after all, if both Godzilla and Biollante contributed, Godzilla still has the lion's share of genetic material; 100% in his half and 33% in Biollante)... and his 'death' is very reminiscent of Biollante's, with the implication of immortal, dispersed cells in a sparkly cloud. So I still cling to the Biollante-originator theory as a possible contender.

But the weight of probability and Occam's Razor definitely favors Mothra it is, quite admittedly, reaching a bit for any explanation that allows for Biollante (beyond the explanation of 'in the real world, the writers didn't think about it that hard').
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby miguelnuva » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:39 pm

Ivo-goji wrote:The whole "Biollante created SpaceGodzilla because they have visual similarities" theory always made me shake my head, because it obviously contradicts canon.

All the official material relating to SpaceGodzilla state that SpaceGodzilla was created from Godzilla's cells. Biollante only possibly helped create SpaceGodzilla by carrying Godzilla's cells into space, not by contributing her hybrid cells. SpaceGodzilla isn't a human-plant-Godzilla hybrid. Biollante didn't get tusks from her rose or Emiko genes, she got them from exaggerating Godzilla's multiple rows of teeth- so did SpaceGodzilla. The only characteristics the two kaiju have in common are what they got from Godzilla. There's just no logical progression from vegetable to mineral.

At any rate from a in-universe perspective, Biollante almost certainly did not help create SpaceGodzilla, because SpaceGodzilla didn't exist in the future the Futurians came from. In their timeline Godzilla never emerged after being defeated by the ANB and never faught any of the subsequent kaiju that appeared in the post-GvsKG timeline. Since SpaceGodzilla only appears after history was changed, the origin that makes the most sense is that he was created by Mothra carrying the G-cells into space in Godzilla vs Mothra. This seems consistent with Mothra being the first to know of SpaceGodzilla's threat and sending a warning to Earth.


Its a never said Spacegodzilla doesn't exit in the Future timeline. What is said is that Godzilla never rises from the ANEB. Biollante called Godzilla out to fight its could be said that SpaceG did the same. With no Godzilla active there was nothing drawing him to Earth.
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby Ivo-goji » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:37 pm

That assumes Godzilla being sedated at the bottom of the sea somehow made him undetectable to SpaceGodzilla, who was able to telepathically locate our timeline's Godzilla from light years away within the depths of space.
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby HillyHulk » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:08 pm

That's kind of confusing to answer. Like it's been pointed out, Biollante was mentioned in his movie as a source of his creation. The problem is the lack of sense that makes since the timeline was altered, therefore she shouldn't exist since Godzillasaurus had been killed before his cells could reach the plant she evolved from. If cells did make it to that plant anyway, it wouldn't effect it like it did in her movie (AKA no sufficient radiation to create Biollante). I would say no, Spacegodzilla is not connected to Biollante.
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby Ivo-goji » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:29 pm

HillyHulk wrote:The problem is the lack of sense that makes since the timeline was altered, therefore she shouldn't exist since Godzillasaurus had been killed before his cells could reach the plant she evolved from.

No, Biollante absolutely exists in both timelines. The events of the first two Heisei films happened with and without time travel. The nuclear sub that transformed Godzillasaurus into Godzilla sank in 70s. If they intended for the 80s films to be erased from the timeline, Godzilla wouldn't need to be reborn that early.
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby miguelnuva » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:34 pm

Ivo-goji wrote:That assumes Godzilla being sedated at the bottom of the sea somehow made him undetectable to SpaceGodzilla, who was able to telepathically locate our timeline's Godzilla from light years away within the depths of space.


Biollante didn't call him out till he was free from Mt Mihara. You do bring up the strongest point on Mothra being the cell donor than Biollante.
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby SonOfGorgo » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:08 am

Anyone heard of a predestination paradox?

Besides, the Furturians may be twisting a truth or two.
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby Ivo-goji » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:56 am

SonOfGorgo wrote:Anyone heard of a predestination paradox?

Applying that logic to GvsKG completely contradicts what is stated in film.
Besides, the Furturians may be twisting a truth or two.

Interpretations that require revising what the characters actually said are an automatic nope.

And this is why I don't subscribe to the Biollante-as-SpaceGodzilla-progenitor theory. The more you examine it, the more you need invented details to make it work.
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Re: Is Space Godzilla a Fully Evolved Biollante?

Postby Maritonic » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:58 am

I never even knew this was a thing people believed. I thought it was pretty evident in the film that Spacegodzilla was mutated Godzilla cells.
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