Talkback: Gamera 3: Revenge of Iris (1999)

For discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released from 1980 up to 1998 (includes Gamera 3)
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Re: Gamera 3: The Awakening of Irys (1999)

Postby g2kmaster » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:17 pm

Godzillian wrote:...

...
^^^The Guardian Monsters before Gamera were Iris, Barugon, Zigra, and Jiger

...


Just want to formally say thanks for posting that. As time goes by, pics and scans of the manga are becoming available and that's just awesome. Now if only I knew how Ito/Kaneko/Higuchi felt regarding the validity of the manga being part of the trilogy's cannon.

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Re: Gamera 3: The Awakening of Irys (1999)

Postby seamus » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:37 am

For me, G3 is absolutely the best, and I think I enjoy watching it more than any other kaiju movie. I don't find a single moment of it to be dull or uninteresting. There isn't as much Gamera in it (or Asagi, for that matter :( ), but the amount that there is honestly feels natural to me. I know a lot of people prefer G2, which is also great, but this movie is made with some otherworldly gusto that just makes the whole thing flow effortlessly in my eyes. I really couldn't ask for a better movie.
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Re: Gamera 3: The Awakening of Irys (1999)

Postby szmigiel » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:16 am

While all three Heisei Gamera films are excellent and I can see reasons why people would pick anyone as their personal favorite. I know I am biased to G3 because the 1st time seeing it was at the Toronto International Film Festivals midnight showing in 1999. I watched as the crowd of mostly film buffs wanted to try and do a MST3K to the movie, with people trying to throw out silly lines during the 1st act. But they were slowly won over as the film went on, instead of insults and funny lines there was ohs and awes, and laughter when it was appropriate. Then when the shot of all the Gyaos heading towards Gamera at the end a guy about 3 or 4 rows behind me said very loudly "HOLY SH!T". Once the credits started to roll there was a nice ovation from the crowd, they went thinking it was going to be a silly campy movie, and left knowing a kaiju movie could be more then that.

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Re: Gamera 3: The Awakening of Irys (1999)

Postby Mr. Xeno » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:44 am

szmigiel wrote:While all three Heisei Gamera films are excellent and I can see reasons why people would pick anyone as their personal favorite. I know I am biased to G3 because the 1st time seeing it was at the Toronto International Film Festivals midnight showing in 1999. I watched as the crowd of mostly film buffs wanted to try and do a MST3K to the movie, with people trying to throw out silly lines during the 1st act. But they were slowly won over as the film went on, instead of insults and funny lines there was ohs and awes, and laughter when it was appropriate. Then when the shot of all the Gyaos heading towards Gamera at the end a guy about 3 or 4 rows behind me said very loudly "HOLY SH!T". Once the credits started to roll there was a nice ovation from the crowd, they went thinking it was going to be a silly campy movie, and left knowing a kaiju movie could be more then that.

That's the sweetest thing I've ever heard in relation to a Giant Monster Movie.
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Re: Gamera 3: The Awakening of Irys (1999)

Postby edgaguirus » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:06 pm

It's a testament that kaiju films can be well made when you have the right people behind the film.
Kaiju are just like people- giant, radioactive people.

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Re: Gamera 3: The Awakening of Irys (1999)

Postby seamus » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:06 am

szmigiel wrote:Once the credits started to roll there was a nice ovation from the crowd, they went thinking it was going to be a silly campy movie, and left knowing a kaiju movie could be more then that.


That is awesome!! ...and a testament to how excellent of a film it is. Was it subtitled? It must have been amazing on the big screen.

Mr. Xeno wrote:That's the sweetest thing I've ever heard in relation to a Giant Monster Movie.


Couldn't agree more. Though one Japanese lady saying she cried in the theater at G84 is pretty high up there too.
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Re: Gamera 3: The Awakening of Irys (1999)

Postby szmigiel » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:26 am

seamus wrote:That is awesome!! ...and a testament to how excellent of a film it is. Was it subtitled? It must have been amazing on the big screen.

Yes it was a subtitled version, it was an old theater which had a balcony seating and a nice sized screen. They played the short film "George Lucas in Love" before hand, I think many of the people were there to see that, and stayed for Gamera 3.
A side not it was shown in September 1999, the Japanese release was spring of 1999 so it wasn't even available to see on VHS, unless you wanted a pirated theater copy. I had already seen the first two films so I knew the backstory.

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Re: Gamera 3: The Awakening of Irys (1999)

Postby Kaiser » Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:27 pm

Gamera 3 definitely has the scope and awe-factor going for it which I think helps disguise its flaws, namely how the narrative completely falls apart in the second half of the film. An excellent popcorn movie, but I prefer the first two entries because even if they're not as technically impressive they are more solid, complete films.

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Re: Gamera 3: The Awakening of Irys (1999)

Postby Mr. Xeno » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:10 pm

Kaiser wrote:Gamera 3 definitely has the scope and awe-factor going for it which I think helps disguise its flaws, namely how the narrative completely falls apart in the second half of the film.

How so?
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Re: Gamera 3: The Awakening of Irys (1999)

Postby Kaiser » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:56 pm

Mr. Xeno wrote:
Kaiser wrote:Gamera 3 definitely has the scope and awe-factor going for it which I think helps disguise its flaws, namely how the narrative completely falls apart in the second half of the film.

How so?


Kurata and Asakura are just kind of there, neither of them are every really contributing much to the plot and the whole "games" angle is really confusing and just doesn't make any sense to me. A ton of Shinto and psychic stuff is thrown into the movie without ever really being explained (being familiar with it might help some, but the motivations of several characters are never really elaborated on), Tatsunari feels pointless in that the movie spends ten minutes getting him to the train station only for him to be completely useless when he shows up and Gamera gets his second wind from nowhere; one minute he's down and out, the next he's ripping out Ayana from Irys's chest. And I can't say I'm a fan of the ending either. Irys is never really explained well in the movie as I can recall and Gamera went from a creature that went out of its way to protect humans to not caring about collateral damage at all which while it makes for a cool scene is still sort of jarring.

The movie has a great set-up but the payoff never really comes, the second half of the movie just kind of wastes its potential. There are several kaiju films I'd rank above it; it really isn't the masterpiece some fans claim it is in my opinion.

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Re: Gamera 3: The Awakening of Irys (1999)

Postby kamilleblu » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:05 pm

Kaiser wrote:
Mr. Xeno wrote:
Kaiser wrote:Gamera 3 definitely has the scope and awe-factor going for it which I think helps disguise its flaws, namely how the narrative completely falls apart in the second half of the film.

How so?


Kurata and Asakura are just kind of there, neither of them are every really contributing much to the plot and the whole "games" angle is really confusing and just doesn't make any sense to me. A ton of Shinto and psychic stuff is thrown into the movie without ever really being explained (being familiar with it might help some, but the motivations of several characters are never really elaborated on), Tatsunari feels pointless in that the movie spends ten minutes getting him to the train station only for him to be completely useless when he shows up and Gamera gets his second wind from nowhere; one minute he's down and out, the next he's ripping out Ayana from Irys's chest. And I can't say I'm a fan of the ending either. Irys is never really explained well in the movie as I can recall and Gamera went from a creature that went out of its way to protect humans to not caring about collateral damage at all which while it makes for a cool scene is still sort of jarring.

The movie has a great set-up but the payoff never really comes, the second half of the movie just kind of wastes its potential. There are several kaiju films I'd rank above it; it really isn't the masterpiece some fans claim it is in my opinion.


Yeah, I agree with Kaiser here.

I think things go wrong for the pacing and narrative after the inspector's decision to help out again. Asakura and Kurata could have been cut completely. Too much time devoted to uninteresting characters and something that went nowhere. Tatsunari needed more to do. His presence made almost no difference, which was a waste after the film spent so much time building up his interest in Ayana. I liked this subplot, too bad more wasn't done with it.

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Re: Gamera 3: The Awakening of Irys (1999)

Postby daveblackeye15 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:39 pm

I think it's the best of the three movies but not the funnest. I do wish there was slightly more melee between Iris and Gamera but I understand that this time he's trying to show the horror of giant monsters clashing. What I do love is just how absolutely ambigious Gamera 3 is and how it sort of breaks apart the giant monster concept along with monster motivation and powers. It gives a reason why Gamera can't just shoot 5,000 fireballs each battle or blow everything up with the mana cannon and we have several different possibilites as to why Iris does what she does. Each time I watch it I do appreciate more whereas the first viewing in high school I went 'this one is thought of as the best?' But now I get it and love what it does. Still...wouldn't have been bothered seeing Iris get attacked by tanks like Legion or a little more monster action. I like how each movie has a different origin, Gyaos are from an ancient race, Legion is pure sci-fi alien invasion, Iris was also created but there's a lot more mythology this time.

And I love that ending now...still want to see this Gamera 4: Truth some day, yes I know it's a fan film.

Speaking of fireballs I watched all three movies over Spring break and I realized he starts off each fight by trying to sucker punch the other monster. In the form of three fireballs and all three attempt fail. Super Gyaos dodges, Legion neutralizes them and Iris can just swat them away. Gamera save that mana!

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Re: Gamera 3: The Awakening of Irys (1999)

Postby Godzillian » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:25 am

Some interesting trivia for this film. The suit actor who plays Irys is the same one who played Gamera in Gamera: Attack of Legion
Image

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Re: Talkback: Gamera 3: Revenge of Iris (1999)

Postby DaruniaDancing » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:27 am

This was definitely my favorite of the Gamera trilogy. I'd probably rank it above at least 15-20 Godzilla films.

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Re: Talkback: Gamera 3: Revenge of Iris (1999)

Postby Mechagigan » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:31 pm

Gamera 3: Revenge of Iris manages to fill - without exaggeration - every critical gap that can be found within it's two preceding films, and with flying colors. From excellent storytelling, to engaging characters, and particularly amazing effects, the movie is easily one of the very best of the genre; and easily Gamera's finest hour, cinematically and critically.

Unlike the rather formal, upfront plots of G1 and 2, G3 takes a daring leap into a far more thoughtful, perhaps even metaphorical realm; counteracting the previous installments, it features a grippingly strong cast, succeeding in creating a plot that truly depends on their actions. It blends G1's (attempt to achieve) recognizable, memorable characters into G2's flowing storyline - and from the mix comes the first of the Trilogy that feels entirely modern, well-written, and all around well-crafted.

It's almost like a portal into a political world we cannot see; one that sees Gamera not as the romanticized stereotype of a campy Kaiju, but instead as a Godzilla-esuqe 'demon' that does far more literal damage to the society around it than our skewed perspectives allow us to perceive. Through the film, I often found myself trying to discover the metaphor this argument served; however, it has become apparent that the movie is referring to itself - finally, we are revealed to the harsh realities of a hero that must destroy. Gamera is not the bright-eyed defender or action hero we've seen thus far. He is a monster - and though he has a spiritual connection to Earth, he serves his own agenda.

Iris' role as an anti-Gamera is interesting; while we are conflicted as to whether or not Gamera himself is the blessing we honor him as, Iris and his relationship with his own 'priestess' is a literal reflection of said plotline. She sees him as a hero - one set ot against the injustices dished to her and many others. We, however, clearly see the tentacled beasts' intentions - destruction and, most certainly, doomsday. He himself displays an issue with the Guardian concept tagged to Gamera; tagged to any deity. What we believe to be a shining light of hope is never without it's darkness, never without it's parallel - whether we accept it or not, no savior is without his further intentions, or, in Gamera's case, unfortunate implications.

Further, I believe there are various religious subtexts to the movie; ones of, again, unfortunate sacrifices in the name of a larger destiny, and the impact of faith. Those who actively criticize or avoid existential 'opportunities' - spare my lack of appropriate wording - may find introspective viewpoints (perhaps ones even able to expand our own knowledge), but many face a dark abandonment from the power they attack - whether it be one of societal, literal, or holy importance.

On a more critical level, not only did the entire cast carry the film beautifully, but the SPFX stood amazingly - easily the best Suitmation-CG work done, that I've seen. G2's Gamera may have been believable, but G3's fitting abomination looks nowhere near artificial; Iris, though perhaps a bit visually complicated, is just as convincing.

There are a good handful of issues; Iris is hardly explained (is he some sort of mutated Gyaos, or was that speculation?), some spiritual things were limited, the dead Gameras are a bit of a mystery, and - though the cast fit in much better than usual - there are still some members that really didn't need to be there.

Much like GMK, I find myself entranced by praise for this film - it surpasses it's brothers my miles, and is easily the best Gamera film to date.

Small edit - Lord almighty, the dub is awful for this one. The script is more or less the same, but it lacks almost all of the actual film's inflections and drama.

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Re: Talkback: Gamera 3: Revenge of Iris (1999)

Postby Variola » Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:14 pm

^ Very well said.
This remains my all time favourite kaiju film, and a big part of that is due to its portrayal of Gamera as a complex and flawed hero, who is ultimately a force for good but cannot help but cause collateral damage in the process.
Thousands die when he blasts Tokyo to bits along with the Gyaos, yet he then goes out of his way to save one lone human. This may seem contradictory, but we see this kind of logic with human beings all the time, who will overlook the countless animals that are killed to support our lifestyle, yet go out of our way to save a drowning puppy.
Throw in a creative antagonist in Irys, an engaging human cast, hard hitting action, a superb soundtrack, and effects that remain among the best in the genre even 17 years later, and you have a winner.

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Re: Talkback: Gamera 3: Revenge of Iris (1999)

Postby Zarm » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:58 pm

I was under the impression that the destruction was actually increased; that this was not just a new way of looking at Gamera, but new behavior from Gamera in the light of severing his connection with humanity at the end of the previous film. Thus, Gamera was now protecting Earth, but not humans (whereas previously he took care to protect most and tried to avoid such excessive damage).

In light of that, his saving the child, and also Ayana, are even more intruiging; do they hint that when he had a connection to humanity, saving people was almost a directive, supplanting his own will, but that now freed of it, his own personality still mandates a protectiveness toward the young? Or that his connection with humanity has somehow not been severed when it comes to children? (Perhaps because it was the prayers or spirits of children that seemed to revive him at the end of the last film? Does he have a bond with them because of that the transcends is general bond to humanity?) Or does it indicate something else entirely?

The juxtaposition of the actions, in light of the concept of the severed bond influencing the way he interacts with the human world, only makes the facets of Gamera's character revealed through his choices more fascinating to me.
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Re: Talkback: Gamera 3: Revenge of Iris (1999)

Postby Mechagigan » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:02 pm

My interpretation really has no solid ground, but the scene where he blocks a Gyaos' beam from the child seemed almost coincidental - Gamera's had was there anyway, and he pretty clearly had no strong intent of keeping people safe, over stopping the birds.

As for the cast at the end, I figure he 'understood' their dilemma somehow - whether through his own 'priestess', somehow, or by simply figuring it out on his own.

Then again, the entire point is that Gamera is indecisive; he will save others when he can, but it isn't his priority by any means.

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Re: Talkback: Gamera 3: Revenge of Iris (1999)

Postby Variola » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:12 pm

Zarm wrote:I was under the impression that the destruction was actually increased; that this was not just a new way of looking at Gamera, but new behavior from Gamera in the light of severing his connection with humanity at the end of the previous film. Thus, Gamera was now protecting Earth, but not humans (whereas previously he took care to protect most and tried to avoid such excessive damage).

In light of that, his saving the child, and also Ayana, are even more intruiging; do they hint that when he had a connection to humanity, saving people was almost a directive, supplanting his own will, but that now freed of it, his own personality still mandates a protectiveness toward the young? Or that his connection with humanity has somehow not been severed when it comes to children? (Perhaps because it was the prayers or spirits of children that seemed to revive him at the end of the last film? Does he have a bond with them because of that the transcends is general bond to humanity?) Or does it indicate something else entirely?

The juxtaposition of the actions, in light of the concept of the severed bond influencing the way he interacts with the human world, only makes the facets of Gamera's character revealed through his choices more fascinating to me.

That was more or less my interpretation; that in G3 he was no longer compelled by his "programming" to protect people, but still chose to save Ayana of his own volition. Kind of like a soldier who is discharged from the army, but steps in to stop a bar fight.

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Re: Talkback: Gamera 3: Revenge of Iris (1999)

Postby Mechagigan » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:22 pm

Does the movie explain totally why he split his connections with Earth?


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