Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Godzillian » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:09 pm

G&G-Fan wrote:
Godzillian wrote:2. I can accept anything in a movie if its written smart enough but man nice strawman with the evolution. I can accept baby crying out and that awakening the plot device, you are trying to turn it into something it isn't. Where does it say the telepathic link is what made baby cry out in pain (as you head canon it) and then said link waking up rodan. Again it's a lazy and terribly written plot point.
3. Literally shoot their weapons to actually kill rodan or kill Godzilla before he gets up?

2. It cuts from Godzilla being blasted over and over right to Baby freaking out and panicking. Then back to Godzilla getting blasted over and over, then back to Baby panicking. Right after Baby roars, it cuts to Rodan waking up. It's really painfully obvious. Why else would Baby suddenly go into a frenzy? Why else would Rodan wake up right after Baby roars? It's called inferencing and subtlety, using cuts to show that things happening from a distance are effecting things away from them.
3. Rodan is already dead, it's just taking time for him to melt away, and blowing him up right then and there would just expel the energy in one big blast immediately instead of slowly. The radioactive energy in Godzilla and Rodan doesn't just disappear when either of them die, it gets released into the air, allowing for it to be absorbed. Blowing Rodan up wouldn't have changed anything.

About Godzilla, first, the pilots were in shock so it's understandable that they didn't respond logically immediately. Second, it's really hard to hit Godzilla with a beam when Rodan's on top of him. Third, Godzilla would continue absorbing the energy anyway, so he would still be revived. And fourth, Godzilla immediately after getting up released a nuclear pulse that really badly damaged Mechagodzilla and melted the diamond shield. After that Mechagodzilla could only fire one mega buster, and the damage from the explosion from the beam clash and Godzilla's following blast probably damaged it to the point it could no longer do anything.

Lmfao keep moving that goal post with headcanon and poor sense of story structure my dude
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby G&G-Fan » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:34 pm

Godzillian wrote:Lmfao keep moving that goal post with headcanon and poor sense of story structure my dude

Not what's going on here but I'm sure you'd like to pretend that. Just referencing things clearly shown in the film and using my brain to put things together instead of being needed to be spoon-fed information.

The funny thing is there is a scene in Mothra vs. Godzilla that perfectly fits what you're trying to portray this scene as. After the imago Mothra is dead, the Shobijin suddenly go "Oh, we can just sing to the egg and it will hatch! No worries!". First of all, why does Godzilla just leave the egg after he kills the adult Mothra? He seemed interested in eating it before, so why doesn't he proceed after he's killed the only thing preventing him from doing so? Second, if they could make the egg hatch at will, why didn't the Shobijin make it hatch earlier so it would wreck Happy Enterprises, teaching them a lesson, and then the larva can go home on it's own. No problem! Third, the fact that the Shobijin can just sing a song to make Mothra hatch is just so out of the blue and not explained. Fourth, how did they get all of the natives of Infant Island to sing along with them and do that whole big ceremony? Did they send an email to them saying "Yo my dudes, how about you start singing along with us!" I love the movie and love the song but come on!

And yet that film gets praised up and down as a masterpiece? Want to know why?

Bias. Guess what? No film is perfect.

Though I should've known considering one of my Facebook friends told me he got contacted by an admin and then got his membership taken away for simply saying the indisputable fact that there was stock footage in Invasion of Astro-Monster.
Last edited by G&G-Fan on Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:10 pm

lol, you don't have to resort to whataboutisms to defend your favorite movie dude.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Godzillian » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:16 pm

G&G-Fan wrote:
Godzillian wrote:Lmfao keep moving that goal post with headcanon and poor sense of story structure my dude

Not what's going on here but I'm sure you'd like to pretend that. Just referencing things clearly shown in the film and using my brain to put things together instead of being needed to be spoon-fed information.

The funny thing is there is a scene in Mothra vs. Godzilla that perfectly fits what you're trying to portray this scene as. After the imago Mothra is dead, the Shobijin suddenly go "Oh, we can just sing to the egg and it will hatch! No worries!". First of all, why does Godzilla just leave the egg after he kills the adult Mothra? He seemed interested in eating it before, so why doesn't he proceed after he's killed the only thing preventing him from doing so? Second, if they could make the egg hatch at will, why didn't the Shobijin make it hatch earlier so it would wreck Happy Enterprises, teaching them a lesson, and then the larva can go home on it's own. No problem! Third, the fact that the Shobijin can just sing a song to make Mothra hatch is just so out of the blue and not explained. Fourth, how did they get all of the natives of Infant Island to sing along with them and do that whole big ceremony? Did they send an email to them saying "Yo my dudes, how about you start singing along with us!" I love the movie and love the song but come on!

And yet that film gets praised up and down as a masterpiece? Want to know why?

Bias. Guess what? No film is perfect.

Though I should've known considering one of my Facebook friends told me he got contacted by an admin and then got his membership taken away for simply saying the indisputable fact that there was stock footage in Invasion of Astro-Monster.

So much strawman lmao brevity is the soul of wit. BTW that film gets praised because it's not a sloppy mess with half baked ideas. It's a well made movie on every aspect and leagues above any heisei film. You sound like the only one with a bias.
Last edited by Godzillian on Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby eabaker » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:15 pm

Boy, it sure is fun having friendly discussions about Godzilla movies with you guys...
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby KaijuCanuck » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:15 pm

You know what's genuinely great?

This movie.

NO, YOU SHUT UP!!!
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Grievous » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:24 pm

*Looks Around*

I mean...no one HAS to defend any film in this franchise.

With so many entries spanning such a length of time...
every fan is going to have their own favorites & those
they find lackluster.

I mean using myself as an example...I think vs. Hedorah,
vs. Megalon & vs. MechaGodzilla 74 are weird, stupid &
somewhat poorly made...BUT I still love them & would easily
rank them in my Top 10.

On the other hand...I think vs. Ghidorah, vs. Mothra,
vs. SpaceGodzilla & vs. Destoroyah from the Heisei era
are all somewhat uneven & overrated by the fandom.

Do I need to defend my opinions & the films I like? No.

Do I want someone to try & convince me I'm "wrong" about
the Heisei films I find lackluster? No.

I'm happy for every fan to have their own taste & opinions...
because honestly...this franchise covers enough time &
tones that there is sure to be something here for everyone.

But on topic...although I'm not sure if I'm repeating myself...
but I find this film the most balanced, focused & effective of
the Heisei era.

Great kaiju, Great action, Great characters & it even has
a touch of romance & cuteness to it.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Gojirawars 03 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:09 am

Godzillian wrote:They def put themselves in a corner at the end of this movie with their plan to take down Godzilla lol Thank God for the Rodan ex Machina to bail them out.

Wouldn't call it Ex Machina since it's not like certain Showa movies when Godzilla just pulls a power out of nowhere. They at least gave an explanation on how he gained the power, and Rodan was already there during the battle, and badly damaged. He heard Baby cry out in distress, so he went to help him, only to be shot down by Super Mechagodzilla. Rodan landed on Godzilla because he knew he would die and Godzilla was his last hope to protect Baby, so he revived Godzilla and gave him the power boost.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Maritonic » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:14 am

eabaker wrote:Also, Rodan merging with Godzilla nicely parallels the Garuda merging with MG.


Huh. I never noticed this. Good point.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Gojirawars 03 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:18 am

Godzillian wrote:
G&G-Fan wrote:
Godzillian wrote:Lmfao keep moving that goal post with headcanon and poor sense of story structure my dude

Not what's going on here but I'm sure you'd like to pretend that. Just referencing things clearly shown in the film and using my brain to put things together instead of being needed to be spoon-fed information.

The funny thing is there is a scene in Mothra vs. Godzilla that perfectly fits what you're trying to portray this scene as. After the imago Mothra is dead, the Shobijin suddenly go "Oh, we can just sing to the egg and it will hatch! No worries!". First of all, why does Godzilla just leave the egg after he kills the adult Mothra? He seemed interested in eating it before, so why doesn't he proceed after he's killed the only thing preventing him from doing so? Second, if they could make the egg hatch at will, why didn't the Shobijin make it hatch earlier so it would wreck Happy Enterprises, teaching them a lesson, and then the larva can go home on it's own. No problem! Third, the fact that the Shobijin can just sing a song to make Mothra hatch is just so out of the blue and not explained. Fourth, how did they get all of the natives of Infant Island to sing along with them and do that whole big ceremony? Did they send an email to them saying "Yo my dudes, how about you start singing along with us!" I love the movie and love the song but come on!

And yet that film gets praised up and down as a masterpiece? Want to know why?

Bias. Guess what? No film is perfect.

Though I should've known considering one of my Facebook friends told me he got contacted by an admin and then got his membership taken away for simply saying the indisputable fact that there was stock footage in Invasion of Astro-Monster.

So much strawman lmao brevity is the soul of wit. BTW that film gets praised because it's not a sloppy mess with half baked ideas. It's a well made movie on every aspect and leagues above any heisei film. You sound like the only one with a bias.

Look, man. Mothra vs Godzilla is my all time favorite Showa film. But it's far from perfect. It has some major plot holes and the special effects were probably sub-par for the Showa Era, at best. The plot is interesting, but honestly the fights are kinda lame. Mothra Imago just flaps her wings at Godzilla, and the Larvae just shoot him with silly string until he gets tied up in webs like a Spider-Man villain. Just acknowledge that everyone has biases and preferences. No film is perfect. A lot of somewhat younger people love the Heisei Era far more than Showa, and even younger kids are growing up with the Millenium, Legendary, and Anime films as their favorites. Everyone has preferences.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Godzillian » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:19 am

Gojirawars 03 wrote:
Godzillian wrote:
G&G-Fan wrote:Not what's going on here but I'm sure you'd like to pretend that. Just referencing things clearly shown in the film and using my brain to put things together instead of being needed to be spoon-fed information.

The funny thing is there is a scene in Mothra vs. Godzilla that perfectly fits what you're trying to portray this scene as. After the imago Mothra is dead, the Shobijin suddenly go "Oh, we can just sing to the egg and it will hatch! No worries!". First of all, why does Godzilla just leave the egg after he kills the adult Mothra? He seemed interested in eating it before, so why doesn't he proceed after he's killed the only thing preventing him from doing so? Second, if they could make the egg hatch at will, why didn't the Shobijin make it hatch earlier so it would wreck Happy Enterprises, teaching them a lesson, and then the larva can go home on it's own. No problem! Third, the fact that the Shobijin can just sing a song to make Mothra hatch is just so out of the blue and not explained. Fourth, how did they get all of the natives of Infant Island to sing along with them and do that whole big ceremony? Did they send an email to them saying "Yo my dudes, how about you start singing along with us!" I love the movie and love the song but come on!

And yet that film gets praised up and down as a masterpiece? Want to know why?

Bias. Guess what? No film is perfect.

Though I should've known considering one of my Facebook friends told me he got contacted by an admin and then got his membership taken away for simply saying the indisputable fact that there was stock footage in Invasion of Astro-Monster.

So much strawman lmao brevity is the soul of wit. BTW that film gets praised because it's not a sloppy mess with half baked ideas. It's a well made movie on every aspect and leagues above any heisei film. You sound like the only one with a bias.

Look, man. Mothra vs Godzilla is my all time favorite Showa film. But it's far from perfect. It has some major plot holes and the special effects were probably sub-par for the Showa Era, at best. The plot is interesting, but honestly the fights are kinda lame. Mothra Imago just flaps her wings at Godzilla, and the Larvae just shoot him with silly string until he gets tied up in webs like a Spider-Man villain.

If you think that those battles are bad because of the choreography then you missed the point of them.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Gojirawars 03 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:48 am

Godzillian wrote:
Gojirawars 03 wrote:
Godzillian wrote:So much strawman lmao brevity is the soul of wit. BTW that film gets praised because it's not a sloppy mess with half baked ideas. It's a well made movie on every aspect and leagues above any heisei film. You sound like the only one with a bias.

Look, man. Mothra vs Godzilla is my all time favorite Showa film. But it's far from perfect. It has some major plot holes and the special effects were probably sub-par for the Showa Era, at best. The plot is interesting, but honestly the fights are kinda lame. Mothra Imago just flaps her wings at Godzilla, and the Larvae just shoot him with silly string until he gets tied up in webs like a Spider-Man villain.

If you think that those battles are bad because of the choreography then you missed the point of them.

Then please enlighten me on the point, sir. Explain the emotional, deeper meaning behind Mothra trying to fan Godzilla to death.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Maritonic » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:53 am

eabaker wrote:Boy, it sure is fun having friendly discussions about Godzilla movies with you guys...


No, it is NOT fun having friendly discussion, god damnit! Friendly =/= fun! Rage and flame wars = fun!
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Godzillian » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:00 am

Gojirawars 03 wrote:
Godzillian wrote:
Gojirawars 03 wrote:Look, man. Mothra vs Godzilla is my all time favorite Showa film. But it's far from perfect. It has some major plot holes and the special effects were probably sub-par for the Showa Era, at best. The plot is interesting, but honestly the fights are kinda lame. Mothra Imago just flaps her wings at Godzilla, and the Larvae just shoot him with silly string until he gets tied up in webs like a Spider-Man villain.

If you think that those battles are bad because of the choreography then you missed the point of them.

Then please enlighten me on the point, sir. Explain the emotional, deeper meaning behind Mothra trying to fan Godzilla to death.

Because fights in film are all about the stakes. Mothra battling Godzilla has high stakes and actual weight too it. Both battles in the film do, while this movie fights are dull. They have much less important steaks until the final battle. As you said when you first joined "Welp, that's that. Feel free to explain how triggered you are in a reply. :mechagodzilla:"
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby PopInPicsPresents » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:01 am

Gojirawars 03 wrote:
Godzillian wrote:They def put themselves in a corner at the end of this movie with their plan to take down Godzilla lol Thank God for the Rodan ex Machina to bail them out.

Wouldn't call it Ex Machina since it's not like certain Showa movies when Godzilla just pulls a power out of nowhere.


It's exactly like that though. Rodan lands on Godzilla and with no explanation just gives him a power up. How is it different from Godzilla pulling powers out of his butt in the Showa movies? Rodan literally pulls a power out of his ass and saves Godzilla.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:49 am

This page is a good example of dishonest criticisms.
Moogabunga wrote:Ive said it before and I'll gladly say it again, this is going to be the best Godzilla film ever and more importantly, its going to be the film that truly makes Godzilla mainstream (and cool)

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:I'm glad to be a fake fan.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby szmigiel » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:38 am

I think this movie is one you either need to gloss over the plot, make up a lot of headcannon, or just laugh at the absurdity of it all.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Maritonic » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:39 am

szmigiel wrote:I think this movie is one you either need to gloss over the plot, make up a lot of headcannon, or just laugh at the absurdity of it all.


Or you can just enjoy it for what it is and not take it super serious.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby szmigiel » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:43 am

Maritonic wrote:Or you can just enjoy it for what it is and not take it super serious.

That would be glossing over the plot.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Postby Maritonic » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:45 am

szmigiel wrote:
Maritonic wrote:Or you can just enjoy it for what it is and not take it super serious.

That would be glossing over the plot.


No, not really. I don't really gloss over the plot, I just take it at face value.
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goji89 wrote:So.......are we gonna Kinkshame the skreeonking birds or what?


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