Kaiju no Kami wrote:The problem with MG in this movie is that there is no reason for it to be a robot Godzilla. It could have just been a Metal Gear-like tank and it would have gotten the same effect across.
Yeah. It's kind of a pointless design. Especially when he flies using Garuda. Universal laws are shattered.
edgaguirus wrote:MG2 still did more than most opponents have. Godzilla was paralyzed at the least, and was rendered helpless. That's still a solid win for MG2.
Agreed. People always assume Destoroyah or King Ghidorah is Godzilla's arch enemy, but Mechagodzilla is always the one injuring, crippling, or near killing Godzilla.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
i think the "worst enemy" or "arch foe" of Godzilla is a debatable topic. you could make a case for MG, Ghidorah, or even Mothra.
:mechagodzilla: "I'm on a drug called Charlie Sheen" ~ Charlie Sheen
Gojira is:Very Hiroshima®
axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz
sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - bitch in space.
Kaiju no Kami wrote:The problem with MG in this movie is that there is no reason for it to be a robot Godzilla. It could have just been a Metal Gear-like tank and it would have gotten the same effect across.
Well MG is a rebuilt Mecha King Ghidorah so I guess they wanted keep the kaiju aspect intact. But yeah, they could've made a Dinosaur-Tank of some sorts.
Kaiju no Kami wrote:The problem with MG in this movie is that there is no reason for it to be a robot Godzilla. It could have just been a Metal Gear-like tank and it would have gotten the same effect across.
Well MG is a rebuilt Mecha King Ghidorah so I guess they wanted keep the kaiju aspect intact. But yeah, they could've made a Dinosaur-Tank of some sorts.
It also doesn't make sense to me that MG is the predecessor to Moguera when Moguera was clearly the weaker of the two and the more primitive. They should have said in SG that Moguera was the prototype to MG, and that they are using Moguera now because of MG's destruction.
Kaiju no Kami wrote:The problem with MG in this movie is that there is no reason for it to be a robot Godzilla. It could have just been a Metal Gear-like tank and it would have gotten the same effect across.
Well MG is a rebuilt Mecha King Ghidorah so I guess they wanted keep the kaiju aspect intact. But yeah, they could've made a Dinosaur-Tank of some sorts.
they are using Moguera now because of MG's destruction.
that much they do say. i think they make it clear that the MG project is scrapped since it failed twice, and that MOGUERA is basically what was left. they threw it together to have a more immediate "first response" to deal with kaiju attacks, but otherwise they weren't going to bother with the money + resources to reconstruct MG2 again.
:mechagodzilla: "I'm on a drug called Charlie Sheen" ~ Charlie Sheen
Gojira is:Very Hiroshima®
axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz
sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - bitch in space.
I should probably give this film another go. The last two times I watched this film I fell asleep. I don't know if the movie's boring or I was just really tired watching the film the previous two times. Probably both.
On the one hand, it has an excellent Ifukube soundtrack, and is probably one of the most superficially enjoyable "modern" updates on some of the Showa elements. The special effects work is also pretty solid.
On the other hand, things that stood out to me on my last viewing:
-As always, there is no reason for the robot in this film to resemble Godzilla, down to having a functioning mouth. A throwaway line about wanting to attract him with a copy, etc., might have helped with this, but it's not present. It's not portrayed with any personality, so its' one of the more obvious marketing elements.
-At the same time, this is distracting on a level beyond believability; I think it actually messes with the promise and structure of the film. The way the opening works clearly expects the viewer to be excited by the reveal of Mechagodzilla, and aware of his existence within the larger franchise. It's a cool promise -- humanity starts off the film building what most viewers know from the previous series to be one of Godzilla's most threatening villains. But ... then he ends up being a big, comical tank, more or less, and that promise goes nowhere. I don't think it would necessarily be better for ending in a similar vein to its adaptation manga, in which Mechagodilla goes haywire due to carried-over programming from Mecha-King Ghidorah, seeking to kill Godzilla at all costs, collateral damage be damned, but also ... yes. I think the film would be handily better for that ending. Even the shoehorned "Life will triumph over artificial life" message would be better served by a rogue Mechagodzilla, fighting on its own due to programming, being trumped by the organic monsters forming bonds.
-"Life will triumph over artificial life" is an incredibly shoehorned, nonsensical lesson. It's like someone had a check-box to tick off labeled "fit in metaphor," but couldn't quite suss out how the Showa films did so, starting with finding a relevant social issue.
-On the other hand, "Will dinosaurs reclaim the Earth one day?" is a surprisingly salient thought for characters in a Godzilla universe. You go, Azusa.
-The little Godzilla is established as an herbivore, which makes no god damn sense given its giant pointy teeth. Later, Azusa feeds it a hamburger. What the fuck ever. It's a great prop.
-Everyone on the research expedition is comically unfazed by the appearance of Rodan.
-There's a huge, sloppy portion about a third of the way into the movie during Aoki's G-Force training. You don't really learn anything about the characters, and it carries over a baffling trend from vs. Biollante in which characters seem to be thrust together in vaguely professional settings that make no sense once you think about it. Aoki steals away from G-Force to visit Azusa's laboratory not on business, but as a casual dinosaur enthusiast. Later, they end up working together as G-Force delves into the plant song and seeks to use Baby Godzilla. Like ... nothing is ever made of this weird coincidence. Characters just appear in the same sot and seem to get along because they're the stars. It plays out ... okay, the first time you watch it, but the more I think about it, the more I hate it.
-Fuck this movie for introducing G-Force, an idea so toxic to the human interest stories it would go on to cripple not only the remaining two movies in the Heisei series, but, in its spiritual successors, many of the Millenium entries as well.
-Fuck this movie for introducing G-Force, an idea so toxic to the human interest stories it would go on to cripple not only the remaining two movies in the Heisei series, but, in its spiritual successors, many of the Millenium entries as well.
Not really actually they were introduced earlier in "The Godzilla Color Special" so blame that comic for their creation though why do you hate G-Force?
-As always, there is no reason for the robot in this film to resemble Godzilla, down to having a functioning mouth. A throwaway line about wanting to attract him with a copy, etc., might have helped with this, but it's not present. It's not portrayed with any personality, so its' one of the more obvious marketing elements.
I used to think the same thing until I realized something physiological warfare are granted it works much, MUCH better in Showa but it stands for Heisei as well.
what a dull movie. I have a hard time deciding whether this or Destoroyah is at the bottom of my "bottom six" in terms of watchability, but Mechagodzilla II always manages to edge out the other one somehow... Every time I give it another chance and think I'm gonna enjoy it more, I eventually regress back to loathing it.
Space Hunter M wrote:what a dull movie. I have a hard time deciding whether this or Destoroyah is at the bottom of my "bottom six" in terms of watchability.
Really? You dislike it that much?
What are the other four?
As always, there is no reason for the robot in this film to resemble Godzilla, down to having a functioning mouth. A throwaway line about wanting to attract him with a copy, etc., might have helped with this, but it's not present. It's not portrayed with any personality, so its' one of the more obvious marketing elements.[/quote
They live in a world with giant monsters and laser tech. You gotta suspend some disbelief.
At the same time, this is distracting on a level beyond believability; I think it actually messes with the promise and structure of the film
It doesn't
Everyone on the research expedition is comically unfazed by the appearance of Rodan.
They live in a world with a giant dinosaur roaming around plus other giant monsters appearing fairly frequently. Is it really that shocking to see another one?
Fuck this movie for introducing G-Force, an idea so toxic to the human interest stories it would go on to cripple not only the remaining two movies in the Heisei series, but, in its spiritual successors, many of the Millenium entries as well.
The idea of G-force is fine it was just trashed in execution. It's better then the successors in the Millenium films at least.
g2vd wrote:Not really actually they were introduced earlier in "The Godzilla Color Special" so blame that comic for their creation though why do you hate G-Force?
From the time of its introduction, it's been utilized as the single laziest way to integrate human characters into the plot, reaching its nadir in vs. Destroyah, which is content to stick its characters in a command center halfway through the film and call it a day (the biggest character-level conflict you get after that is Mikki's will-she-won't-she with using Godzilla Jr. as bait, which lasts about half a second).
Also, while it'd be fine--and is--as a one-off concept, the way it and spiritual successors dominate modern Godzilla movies is a huge shame. (vs. Mechagodzilla, vs. Spacegodzilla, vs. Destroyah, x Megaguirus, x Mechagodzilla, Tokyo S.O.S., Final Wars, and even in G '14 we follow a military protagonist directly caught up in plots to stop Godzilla). Enough already. It's not that interesting.
Space Hunter M wrote:what a dull movie. I have a hard time deciding whether this or Destoroyah is at the bottom of my "bottom six" in terms of watchability, but Mechagodzilla II always manages to edge out the other one somehow... Every time I give it another chance and think I'm gonna enjoy it more, I eventually regress back to loathing it.
You know, full disclosure--I did fall asleep for a stretch of my last viewing, including part of the climax. I've had a reasonable amount of fun with it on other viewings, so I'm more inclined to chalk that up to having seen it several times before and being tired. It does have major problems, though, and don't get me wrong--I still want to slap whoever at Toho was responsible for the rushed pitch-to-screenplay process I blame a lot of these films' sloppiness on. But hey, gotta sell toys.
For reasons touched upon above, Destroyah will always be a vastly less interesting film to me.
-"Life will triumph over artificial life" is an incredibly shoehorned, nonsensical lesson. It's like someone had a check-box to tick off labeled "fit in metaphor," but couldn't quite suss out how the Showa films did so, starting with finding a relevant social issue.
Yeah..it's still better than SpaceGodzilla's brain dead massage though.
Also, while it'd be fine--and is--as a one-off concept, the way it and spiritual successors dominate modern Godzilla movies is a huge shame. (vs. Mechagodzilla, vs. Spacegodzilla, vs. Destroyah, x Megaguirus, x Mechagodzilla, Tokyo S.O.S., Final Wars, and even in G '14 we follow a military protagonist directly caught up in plots to stop Godzilla). Enough already. It's not that interesting.
I agree while I like G-Force it's been overused to all hell, even in Legendary Monarch will with all likeness fall into the same position as G-Force. and while I like G-Force and it's similar counterparts and it's cool to see a organization developed to counter Godzilla and other monsters which is what would happen a break is definitely needed and in a single continuity when you bring it in they should have quite a bit of buildup and not just brought in out of the blue in just one movie like in Heisei.
The only MechaGodzilla that had any actual reason to look like Godzilla is Kiryu, but Kiryu seemed the least realistic of the three MGs in terms of his existence. Super MG legitimately felt like the ultimate weapon, moreso than the other versions.
Castellan Zilla wrote:What? No dots on SHMA Mothra?! In the trash she goes.
Mr. Xeno wrote:The only MechaGodzilla that had any actual reason to look like Godzilla is Kiryu, but Kiryu seemed the least realistic of the three MGs in terms of his existence. Super MG legitimately felt like the ultimate weapon, moreso than the other versions.
Well, MG Showa was built by aliens that wanted to conquer the world and to do that they would to beat not only monsters but Humans as well, for Humans not only seeing a gigantic monstruity that blasts rockets out of even it's toes to see it but for it to be a evil and twisted looking version of Godzilla would only make it worse and the roar viewed in universe with it destroying a whole city that would be absolutely terrifying and would cripple any resolve to even attempt to fight back.
For Kaiju it would do the same if Toho Kaiju were not impossible to intimdate.
For Heisei I guess you could say they wanted to turn a figure of death into a beacon of hope which would make a ton of sense, the problem being is as always happened during the Heisei Era NOBODY thought of that. so flawed, however viewing it with that kind of idea does manage to improve the movie a bit.
I always assumed Mechagodzilla was meant to fool Godzilla and other kaiju into thinking that another member of his species had claimed Japan as his territory and this would act as a deterrent to future encounters.
Kaiju-King42 wrote:
Welcome to Toho Kingdom, where every conceivable opinion, no matter how outlandish or unpopular, is a possibility among the population.
It doesn't matter because it's never explained in the film.
I'd even have taken a cheeky, "Well, technically it could have just been a tank, but the JSDF decided this way we could at least sell toys" throwaway line.
This movie is snoresville. Probably one of the better of the Heisei films placing it right between the very worst and the very best of the 90s series. The monster designs are great, loved having Rodan in the mix, and the Ifukube score is unforgettable. Still catch myself humming the MGII theme from time to time.
But this movie is another Heisei film that just puts me to sleep. Really dont like the Godzilla Jr saga that the last three movies of the Heisei series pulled out. Its just so boring and useless in my opinion. This film could have been way better.
Rodan wrote:It doesn't matter because it's never explained in the film.
I'd even have taken a cheeky, "Well, technically it could have just been a tank, but the JSDF decided this way we could at least sell toys" throwaway line.
For me I just accept it as "Rule of Cool" when it comes to human made Mechagodzilla's (Kiryu makes a little more sense though) besides by 1993 the Heisei series wasn't the grounded series it started out as. So really I just turn my brain off when it comes to the film's post GvsKG (with Destroyah being the exception) however that still doesn't save this film from being, at least in my opinion, the absolute worst Heisei film.
TK's official member of the "Three L's of the Apocalypse"
:mechagodzilla: 
though why do you hate G-Force?
